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  1. #1
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    It only takes a few clicks here and there on MGTOW related content and you often, are highly likely to stumble upon a hard Patriarchy as some sort of remedy against the corruption and anti-male climate in the western world.

    I consider tradcon values to be inherently anti MGTOW and hostile to any man who is going his own way. These so called 'men of honour' are precisely the reason why men are completely fucked in the modern western world.

    Feminists are right in that most positions of power are occupied by men (although things are slowly changing); but where I different with feminists is when they say this favours men.

    When a cunt makes a false allegation, who is there to aid the bitch? All the way from arrest to prosecution?


    1. Police come to your house and arrest you for this or that issue (most likely men)
    2. Police keep you in the cell with you wait for trail (the guard is a man)
    3. You are taken to court (by men)
    4. The 'victim' is afforded a top notch lawyer (most likely a man)
    5. The Jury is composed of men (around 50% or so)
    6. The Judge who rules in favour of the cunt (most likely a man)
    7. You then get taken to prison (by other men, and they watch you get anally raped by other)
    8. Those who rewrite the laws making it easier to falsely accuse (men) of rape. (most likely a panel of men)


    And yet, here we are on a MGTOW site and a patriarchy is often seen as a solution. There are online MGTOW who advocate 'taking women's rights away', 'taking women's right to vote' as if that solves the shit we are in.

    Well, everyone on this site knows my position with regards to the patriarchy. I think it is inherently anti-mgtow and take the position that we cannot go back - we must adapt to the gynocentric agenda and check mate it on every occasion.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    I point out that many of the male grievances are patriarchal in origin:
    - when men have to support women (alimony) is that not a patriarchal concept?
    - when women are entrusted with the children, is not that a patriarchal concept?
    - when women are protected by other men and the system, is not that a patriarchal concept?

    What we have now is, as many already said, a system were women still reap most of the advantages of a traditional patriarchal view, while refusing any of the responsibilities that came with it.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    What we have now is, as many already said, a system were women still reap most of the advantages of a traditional patriarchal view, while refusing any of the responsibilities that came with it.
    And MGTOW, as I see it is a refusal of the ''responsibilities'' of a patriarchy. MGTOW are saying ''if you want me to work hard, then I need to get compensated for it, and compensated on my own terms''. Other MGTOW are saying, ''I don't want any part in the gynocracy, regardless what the compensation is''.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    And MGTOW, as I see it is a refusal of the ''responsibilities'' of a patriarchy. MGTOW are saying ''if you want me to work hard, then I need to get compensated for it, and compensated on my own terms''. Other MGTOW are saying, ''I don't want any part in the gynocracy, regardless what the compensation is''.
    At a higher level we are dealing with a conflict between intellect and instinct.
    The drive to mate and have children is instinctive, and most gender behaviors derive from evolutionary pressures.

    Humanity however has the ability to "think" in a small scale (but a lot less than most people assume). So, we are able to shape our behavior due to artificial concepts.

    This brings a conflict, and an imbalance. The conflict is individual, and stems from the unfulfilled instinct leaving us empty of natural endorphins. But the imbalance is the reaction of the other to the change.

    In this case the male physical power has been suppressed, thus the result was the female psychological power taking over society.

    The original thinking was to avoid violence and provide security for everyone, and we have been successful at that. We are at one of the safest times in the history of mankind.

    However the psychological effect was not to empower the intellect, but rather to empower feelings and whims. And that is all instinctive.

    It is a full circle, were you suppress one instinct to obtain higher reason, but get sabotaged by other instincts, thus abandoning reason.

    MGTOW in this aspect is perfectly progressive, as it is based on reason and counters instinctive behavior. We go to the point of explaining female instinctive behavior that is willfully ignored by society.

    Under this view, the present "liberal" agenda is actually regressive and will take us back to the stone age. It is obvious that we (as society) are returning to the irrational age, by shutting down discourse by force and censorship.

    As I write this my understanding is that mankind is not self-aware enough to apply reason as a driver of behaviour, instead of instinct. We will return to the old ways, and already are.

    All it takes is a spark, and violence will explode. When you have a disequilibrium there is a chaotic moment before returning to the equilibrium.

    In this sense, all those longing for the return of male power over females will get what they want. Women will have no choice but to return to their traditional role, or perish. This is not good news, and nobody is going to be happy, as most of it will happen under abject misery, senseless violence, and death.

  5. #5
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Patriarchy: Needs a group to exist.

    Matriarchy: Needs a group to exist.

    Democracy: Needs a group to exist.

    Communism: Needs a group to exist.

    Capitalism: Needs a group to exist.

    MGTOW: When the natural man seeks peace and harmony for his natural self, he knows he's not going to find it being a pack mule in any group, he's awakened to the fact that he's all on his own and must sever ties to any known tyrannical group that sees his life be better lived otherwise, against his natural being and against his natural rights!

    MGTOW: We understand a marriage license is a tool for our spiritual, physical, emotional, and financial DEMISE!

    What modern women would be willing to sign a marriage license that gave her husband full autonomy over her and the children? Without recourse, address, all hearings denied.

    ^^^That is the modern state of matrimonial law except replace women with men!

    Sorry sweetheart, a BIG FUCK YOU, single and refusing to mingle is better than living like that!

    The natural man that abides in each of us has been under attack from all sides, cradle to grave, consorted effort, now it's time to strike back with a silent death that surly shall cause panic and stress on those that for so long enjoyed the luxury of dishing it out!

    The writing is on the wall, and it's MGTOW that WROTE IT!

    I understand your position, Opaque, I also live between a rock and a hard place, all we can do is BLAST! Fuck everyone else!

  6. #6

    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    It only takes a few clicks here and there on MGTOW related content and you often, are highly likely to stumble upon a hard Patriarchy as some sort of remedy against the corruption and anti-male climate in the western world.


    When a cunt makes a false allegation, who is there to aid the bitch? All the way from arrest to prosecution?


    1. Police come to your house and arrest you for this or that issue (most likely men)
    2. Police keep you in the cell with you wait for trail (the guard is a man)
    3. You are taken to court (by men)
    4. The 'victim' is afforded a top notch lawyer (most likely a man)
    5. The Jury is composed of men (around 50% or so)
    6. The Judge who rules in favour of the cunt (most likely a man)
    7. You then get taken to prison (by other men, and they watch you get anally raped by other)
    8. Those who rewrite the laws making it easier to falsely accuse (men) of rape. (most likely a panel of men)


    Well, everyone on this site knows my position with regards to the patriarchy. I think it is inherently anti-mgtow and take the position that we cannot go back - we must adapt to the gynocentric agenda and check mate it on every occasion.
    When dealing with any kind of bully, I take the view it is best to take an approach of boxing clever and outsmart them. Step one was to get mgtow out there and spread the information and it's now sufficiently established to prevent them from stopping that happening in the first place.

    When you take a step back and look at the men who are doing points 1 to 8 above and then look at the female 'metoo' movement, women have presented an opportunity we can leverage to our advantage. We can frame the men doing points 1 to 8 above as sex pests and sexual harassers and potential rapists who are pandering to women to then get special privileges and entitlements (and when the women don't reciprocate voluntarily they do it by force and threats. That is the truth and science. It's not men going their own way that are doing that.

    If women are going to shout and scream about 'metoo' they then also need to look at their own behaviour and culpability in accepting and taking special treatment and entitlements.

    We can paint them in a negative light, exactly like we have been doing to date. We just need to keep using the truth and scientific fact and getting it out there. It's worked well for us to date and will keep working. The truth always wins in the end.

    satyagraha

  7. #7
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    There's more than one way to define "patriarchy," and I think that's where some of the disagreements come from.

    Similarly, Brittany Pettibone interviewed a woman from Russia who brought up the great point that there's feminism, and then there's feminism. The term is defined in different ways by different people, everything from "everyone should have a chance" to the more-extreme views.

    It's best to rely on traditional definitions, since in recent years some have been skewed in a way that makes them out to be despicable points of view. Hijack words and phrases, and then redefine them over and over until they take on new meanings is one of the smarmy tricks of the Nazi left.

    Once a term acquires a second definition, especially if it competes with rather than augments the original definition, that term becomes essentially useless in any discussion.

  8. #8
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    I consider tradcon values to be inherently anti MGTOW and hostile to any man who is going his own way.
    I'll go further and make a stronger statement: Absolute and unhindered patriarchy (say, the army of Genghis Khan invading, raping and pillaging any territory) is worse, MUCH worse, than any form of liberalism, even the most degenerate variations.

    On the surface, that statement may seem stupidly absurd. When we had patriarchy, we had peaceful times in history. And whenever we had extreme liberalism and degeneracy, we have records that empires declined and fell apart. Well, the reason I make the above claim, is that the patriarchy leads to or devolves down into liberalism over few generations. So if some state is enjoying patriarchy, then they have a problem which will only surface AFTER few generations, instead of right in front.

    My point is, all forms of patriarchy, or should I say government systems and politics we have seen in the world, are failures. Some fail immediately (liberalism), some fail over few generations (traditionalism). So if someone is proposing a system of government, whether its patriarchy or whatever, it must include, in great detail, the steps which are supposed to prevent the slow and steady decline. Otherwise its actually a worse solution than no solution, other than just being a quick band aid.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  9. #9

    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    One of the common themes I see in MGTOW forums is the desire to go back to some form of traditionalism. They'll say things like, if enough men GTOW, women will have to get their shit together and society will have to restore male authority and respect in order to survive. This is true, but it is NOT the optimal outcome for MGTOW or really men in general.

    The optimal outcome for MGTOW would be to keep things more or less the way they are now, except to address men's rights issues such as alimony/divorce/child support laws and come up with a system that is fair to men. Also, to do away with all sexist gender quotas, and in fact all diversity quotas in general. Jobs and positions in society should go to the most qualified and competent individuals, regardless of gender or skin color. Men should still keep their freedom, and have no obligations to anything or anyone but themselves.

    Also, we could fix a lot of the current issues we have with leftists/feminists/women voting by simply making it illegal for anyone who is not a net tax-payer to vote. This would also take care of illegals and immigrants who travel to western nations and vote leftist policies so they can collect bigger welfare checks. It would take care of single mothers, and the massive burden they place on the tax payers. It would take care of most of the issues we have with big/expanding government.

    Only people who contribute to society should have a vote, parasites should not get shit. No more free rides or handouts for women or anyone else; you better be willing to pull your own weight. If you eliminated the welfare state, women would have an incentive to attract quality men and to actually keep them instead of divorce raping them and taking their children away. A lot of the destructive behavior we see from women would go away overnight. Feminism would too, as it would be social suicide to any woman who preached it. Take away all the sexist quotas, government handouts, and other support women receive from men in society and suddenly, they are not all that independent or empowered.

    If they want to take something from men, they better be able to offer something of equal value in exchange. No more forcing or shaming men to get us to do what they want. If they want something from us, they will have to ask nicely, and provide strong incentives. They will have to get it directly and voluntarily from the man. No more sending the government to collect involuntarily from men at the point of a gun. Voting should not be some "right" you give to criminals, illegals, and the most irresponsible members of society. It is a PRIVILEGE that you should EARN.

    Under traditionalism, men are still forced to accept terms which are unfavorable to them; they were simply better terms than the terms men have now. But the BEST terms are the ones in which the man is completely free to choose whatever he wants. If women or society do not provide a strong enough incentive that men CHOOSE to be providers, protectors, etc then they need to either step up their game, or they will not get the benefit of men's participation. So instead of a society which denigrates, bashes, and shames men, how bout one that holds good men up and rewards us for the many great benefits we provide?

    I think a system like this would not only be better for men, but it would result in a much better society. Men are the builders of society, and we respond better to incentives and respect than we do to threats, insults, force, and shaming language. When men have incentives and strong motivation to do something, there is no limit to the results we can produce.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    Only people who contribute to society should have a vote, parasites should not get shit. No more free rides or handouts for women or anyone else; you better be willing to pull your own weight. If you eliminated the welfare state, women would have an incentive to attract quality men and to actually keep them instead of divorce raping them and taking their children away. A lot of the destructive behavior we see from women would go away overnight. Feminism would too, as it would be social suicide to any woman who preached it. Take away all the sexist quotas, government handouts, and other support women receive from men in society and suddenly, they are not all that independent or empowered.
    Where is the incentive for any of this?

    Women love the status quo, sure they complain a lot and are miserable, but they love it! They have power over men and victim status. They will NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!

    The politicians are lazy cowards. They will NOT make controversial decisions, less alone upset women, minorities and immigrants. In fact they can easily get votes from them with handouts, and its not their money anyway...

    And last, most men are blue pill idiots that would fight such policies.

    As I said, humanity is not intellectually ready for the development we have today. The peek of human development was with the elite of the early 20th century. Now most people today are almost feral ignorants. The fact that they can operate smartphones means nothing, what they do with the smartphone tells you everything.

  11. #11
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    As I said, humanity is not intellectually ready for the development we have today.
    That is by far the most black pilled statement, which I am afraid, might be true. Atleast for sufficiently large number of people to drag themselves and others with them, down the void.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    One thing I learned early on in life is that nothing goes back to what it used to be, it just morphs into something else as time (like a ratchet) keeps clicking along, it's a bum's rush of sorts, we're not really given a choice, we can only react, and then call that decision a choice. The trick is to get two steps ahead of any oncoming disasters! When it comes to "red flags", why wait around to see if there's another? Passing the first red flag is our greatest mistake! It's all in the contents of action and reaction, it's a dance with destiny or a fatal mistake, it's all in how we teach ourselves to navigate, when we ignore the bells, buoys, and flags, we go down fast and we hit hard! Preferably, I choose to learn from other's mistakes!

    For the more intelligent of our gender, life is like skiing the glades, instead of little red flags to avoid, we see them as trees!

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    [QUOTE=Manfred;148624]
    - when men have to support women (alimony) is that not a patriarchal concept?
    [QUOTE]
    Not really. In the bad old days of the 1800's and early 1900's, a woman who was divorced at fault of adultery got nothing. Zip. Nothing at all.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Where is the incentive for any of this?

    Women love the status quo, sure they complain a lot and are miserable, but they love it! They have power over men and victim status. They will NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!

    The politicians are lazy cowards. They will NOT make controversial decisions, less alone upset women, minorities and immigrants. In fact they can easily get votes from them with handouts, and its not their money anyway...

    And last, most men are blue pill idiots that would fight such policies.
    Agreed.

    I am very pessimistic about the ability that society would change its' ways in order to make life more comfortable for the average man.

    A traditional setting of any kind is impossible at this stage. How would you enforce the idea that only tax payers can vote? There would be an uproar, and plenty of white knights coming to the rescue. We were living in times of scarcity, I remember the Lehman shock and the housing bubble, defaulting on mortgage payments. And yet, what happened? Nothing, .GOV stepped in and pumped more money and taxed the productive class even more.

    You simply need to be shrewd and avoid making mistakes against the gynocracy as rkspsm says. Ghosting is one option, sustainable living, saving more than spending, and most of all avoiding any romantic entanglements aside from p4p.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Similarly, Brittany Pettibone interviewed a woman from Russia who brought up the great point that there's feminism, and then there's feminism. The term is defined in different ways by different people, everything from "everyone should have a chance" to the more-extreme views.
    I know what you mean, but I see this simply as an exercise in plantation recruitment. Whatever happened to Brittany Pettibone and Lauren Southern?

    Seems like they made some good money out being a 'traditionalist'...Did the gravy train end or something?
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

  16. #16

    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    Where is the incentive for any of this?

    Women love the status quo, sure they complain a lot and are miserable, but they love it! They have power over men and victim status. They will NOT CHANGE ANYTHING!

    The politicians are lazy cowards. They will NOT make controversial decisions, less alone upset women, minorities and immigrants. In fact they can easily get votes from them with handouts, and its not their money anyway...

    And last, most men are blue pill idiots that would fight such policies.

    As I said, humanity is not intellectually ready for the development we have today. The peek of human development was with the elite of the early 20th century. Now most people today are almost feral ignorants. The fact that they can operate smartphones means nothing, what they do with the smartphone tells you everything.
    I never said that this would happen, or even that it was possible. Just that it would be optimal to men, and a return to traditionalism would not.

  17. #17
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    I am very pessimistic about the ability that society would change its' ways in order to make life more comfortable for the average man.
    A comfortable life is the last thing TPTB want for the masses. When people feel calm and secure they tend to make rational decisions, they think things through before acting and see things for what they are, for the most part anyway.

    No, they love the chaos because this allows them room to manoeuvre and enables them to take advantage of the poor decisions of others.

    ‘Comfortable is boring, excitement is desirable.’ This is what I’ve heard my entire life and it’s a croc of shit. Yet another blue-pill illusion (delusion).
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. Dave Matthes

  18. #18
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    I know what you mean, but I see this simply as an exercise in plantation recruitment. Whatever happened to Brittany Pettibone and Lauren Southern?

    Seems like they made some good money out being a 'traditionalist'...Did the gravy train end or something?
    I remember a Lauren Southern video, where she was preaching women against promiscuity and the benefits of marrying and settling down... all the while being 30 herself, unmarried and post-wall thot, and I guess later exposed for a lot of things, promiscuity being one of it. The irony of that video was through the roof !
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  19. #19
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    Where is the incentive for any of this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    How would you enforce the idea that only tax payers can vote?
    I think, there is a possibility, a very small one, that the incentive and enforcement happens out of necessity (read: only way to survive), atleast to some parts of the world. But thats it, I am not keeping my fingers crossed, and its definitely not happening to the part of the world where I live. I support the idea of getting enough wealth and get the f out of problematic places, be it a different state or country or continent.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  20. #20

    Re: Why is a hard patriarchy such an attractive 'remedy'?

    If you want a movie that discusses a similar theme: watch "Starship Troopers" "Service Guarantees Citizenship" Voting is a substitute for combat - the "Army" of voters that outnumbers the other side at the polls "Wins". Implies only men should vote since an army of men will defeat an army of women, to follow the logic of "Starship Troopers" . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    Agreed.

    I am very pessimistic about the ability that society would change its' ways in order to make life more comfortable for the average man.

    A traditional setting of any kind is impossible at this stage. How would you enforce the idea that only tax payers can vote? There would be an uproar, and plenty of white knights coming to the rescue. We were living in times of scarcity, I remember the Lehman shock and the housing bubble, defaulting on mortgage payments. And yet, what happened? Nothing, .GOV stepped in and pumped more money and taxed the productive class even more.

    You simply need to be shrewd and avoid making mistakes against the gynocracy as rkspsm says. Ghosting is one option, sustainable living, saving more than spending, and most of all avoiding any romantic entanglements aside from p4p.


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