Thread: extraordinary value -- something every MGTOW must relearn

It's hard to erase the crap that's been put in your brain, and then relearn the truth, but that's something urgent that every MGTOW must do. It would be impossible to cover every bit of disinformation that we, as MGTOW, must defeat, but I'm going to cover one of the most important pieces of disinformation that you must get over.

That is this: The notion that your life is not of value, or that it's of less value than others.

This destructive concept has been hammered into us all our lives. It's implied in the following words: Women and children first. In a disaster, such as the sinking of a ship, the lives of women and children were always valued above ours, and we were expected to sacrifice ourselves. If you were an adult male on the Titanic, your chances of dying were much higher than those of a woman or a child. They chose to save the supposed important people and let the disposable ones, the men, die. Of course, some will scream that that disaster happened over a hundred years ago. However, US Airways Flight 1549, which was forced to make an emergency landing on the Hudson River in New York City, also used the “women and children first” standard when getting people off the plane and to safety. Every passenger did make it to safety, but that's not the point. The point was that the women and children passengers were valued over the men. That didn't happen a century ago. It happened in 2009.

The rigging of the dating system against us screams “you're less valuable.” We're the ones expected to pay. I won't even go into those insane costs. We've been over them many times. Of course, I'm sure the feminists, who are for gender equality, are all for changing this unjust system. Nope! Their notion of “equality” is that they get to be more equal than us. “Give me equality! … Is that the check, you're the man, you pay.”

The constant message has been “you're less than.” Our lives are saved last in a disaster, we're the ones sent off to die on war, we're the ones expected to pay the huge costs of a relationship. Then if it doesn't work out, we're the ones blamed, and we're the ones who pay through the nose for divorce.

“Less then, less than, less than” has been hammered into your skull as long as you've been alive.

But we're MGTOW! We reject all that shit! We've freed ourselves from that unjust system. We concentrate on building ourselves up. We do that by finding the right career, by building a great business, by working out and getting fit, by learning a new language, buy learing a new skill – whatever it is that strikes our fancy.

However, while all this external stuff is important, I wanted to remind my MGTOW brothers to not forget to develop internally. You start by destroying all of that “less than” crap that's been programmed into your head without your consent. You need to know deep down that your life is of tremendous value. Even if the love of your life betrayed you while you were off defending your country, your life is of the highest value. It's precious. Even if you had bitchy and shitty teachers who said otherwise, you're important. Your life makes a difference. Your MGTOW brothers are here to help you build yourself up, but only you can actually do it. However you need to do it – whether it be through deep medication, prayer, chanting, journaling, or whatever, you erase all that negative programming you've been bombarded with, and you replace it with a certainty that you are valued. You value yourself first, and then others will follow.

Inside you burns a flame that they cannot extinguish. It may have diminished, nearly smothered by their hate, but it never went out. And now you get to choose to build it up brighter and brighter! The “less than” message has always been wrong, no matter how many times it was repeated. Repetition doesn't make a wrong idea right. You are now wiping that crap out of your mind forever.

The hateful feminists who slammed you are bitter and pathetic people who lash out because of their own self-hatred. So are the haters who threw us out of Reddit. They needed to manufacture an enemy to put down to distract them from their own self-loathing. When you've built yourself up, you won't even feel anger toward these crawling and sniveling servants of the trash system. You'll pity them.

Meanwhile, every day you'll build that flame up brighter until it's overwhelming. You'll build a little more joy every day until it surges through and overwhelms you, and that is total liberation.

If you're not taking care of #1, rest assured, nobody is! However, it doesn't hurt to make new friends, Ukraine has proven that!

Though men have built society, it places no value upon its male members. Rest assured if the males of our species were to suddenly vanish, those in the female scientific community would be in an instant rush to clone more men! (Who else will support their lazy asses)?

I appreciate a positive message like this because, for men, where else would you get such affirmation today? This site and others like it exist at least in part because of the value discrepancy between what society says men are worth versus the value we place on ourselves. So we vote with our feet and do what best for us for a change. It's pretty good living and the simplicity and lack of stress are absolutely worth it.

Originally Posted by Skywarp

I appreciate a positive message like this because, for men, where else would you get such affirmation today? This site and others like it exist at least in part because of the value discrepancy between what society says men are worth versus the value we place on ourselves. So we vote with our feet and do what best for us for a change. It's pretty good living and the simplicity and lack of stress are absolutely worth it.

We've got each other's backs. No one else will. Everyone else seems determined to reinforce that anti-male myths, that we're worth less to the point of being disposable.

We've withdrawn from the sick and absurd dating/marriage world, and we were hated for it. We were hated for choosing to run our own lives as we see fit.

But we've chosen, despite society's madness, to build great lives.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

They chose to save the supposed important people and let the disposable ones, the men, die.

Using the sinking ship examples of yesteryear, I know the concept of male disposability is a widely held framework nowadays but I'm personally not convinced that disposability was the conscious, driving idea back then when the women-and-children-first idea was earlier practiced. I have to consider that men were viewed as more durable, more capable to survive the come-what-may, than women and children. I can't know that death always awaited the latter ones in line. Hardship, yes. And men are more likely to keep their cool, take directions, give directions, coordinate in a crisis, than the women would be. Men were dressed in pants which made them more utilitarian in movement than any woman in a dress could be.

Men built the ships, maintained the ships, ran the ships. Imagine the men then first to abandon the ships, leaving it to the women and children to deal with it. Makes no practical sense, really. Unfortunately, the gentlemen passengers on board who have never touched a monkey wrench get grouped with the capable men of which I speak, to join them in being last to leave, whether they like it or not. Still, not a disposability thing, to my mind. Doomed by association? I also consider that, to the extent women were less capable, and allowed to be, would that not mean that men were deemed more capable, and expected to be?

All of that steers my thinking away from cold-blooded disposability to matters of who's more likely to endure and survive?

Now, I might think, when the number of passengers exceeded lifeboat capacity, as what happened on the Titanic, the possibility of death really becomes apparent. So, they/we carried over from ideas already established, from the universalized thinking of war, that men do the fighting and the dying as they are more capable in that task than are women, for all of men's "advantages" I've mentioned above. Men are more likely to endure and survive. Brief reading informs me than cruise ships today are required to have lifeboats for 125% of capacity, at a minimum.

Today, if on a plane sinking in the Hudson River, as a man I did not build the airplane, maintain the airplane, or run the airplane, and importantly the women sitting next to me are wearing stretch pants instead of dresses and are expected in general to be more capable and sturdy than yesteryear's dainty women. Makes much less sense nowadays that I would be seen as clearly more advantaged to survive than these women, for them to deserve priority preservation over me. (How about non-swimmers first?) A claim of women-and-children-first nowadays would sound like a desperate attempt to milk that idea as far as it will go. Like how modern women try for chivalry when equality is less advantageous for them.

Ha, let's turn it around. If the future were to be female, as feminists once asserted would be the ship that they'd build, then in that catastrophe men and children should be given first dispensation to be rescued from its effects.

Speaking of titanic, see this poor guy.

https://titanic.fandom.com/wiki/Masabumi_Hosono

He just wanted to save his own life. But everyone was pointing finger at him saying he was a coward, even in a "Patriarchal society" aka Japan back in 1800s.

Originally Posted by mgtow2021

Speaking of titanic, see this poor guy.

https://titanic.fandom.com/wiki/Masabumi_Hosono

He just wanted to save his own life. But everyone was pointing finger at him saying he was a coward, even in a "Patriarchal society" aka Japan back in 1800s.

What a story. I, too, once was the accidental weakling, though not as consequential as that. In the 80s, I worked in an office tower. There was a chemical leak in the building and my nose picked up on it ahead of others. I don't wait for permission so I exited the building and found a seat along a low wall in the plaza, to clear my lungs, sitting there all alone. (This was back when smoking was allowed in the office and I would occasionally isolate myself from the smoke, if it got to be too much.) Eventually the firetrucks showed up, people were leaving the building as directed and one fireman saw me sitting at the low wall, all by myself, asked me if I was sick from the fumes. I replied something like "I smelled it", not knowing what he was up to. He saw that the low wall where I sat was a logical place to segregate any others who had real problems with the fumes from everyone else who was exiting the building and I was already seated there, so looked like a good idea to him, I would soon realize. I think the other sick ones were all women, can't remember for sure, but he sent them to sit with me. He kept us there long after all others were allowed to re-enter the building. I was not sick, but the others with me were evidently claiming sickness. I really left the building to avoid getting sick. But, I cooperated with the fireman. I mean, why not. Didn't matter to me. Gee, what if the chemical had health consequences? I did smell it, after all. I would have liked to know.

When this group in which I found myself was later allowed back in the building, after all others had returned, I arrived back into the office long after anyone else in the office had returned and had to report where I had been, so of course I was with the sick folks and it was then assumed that I had been affected just like the women had. But, I was a man and that's no good. I overheard one male supervisor making fun of me to the other supervisors for being weak. It was just circumstances, is all.

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Using the sinking ship examples of yesteryear, I know the concept of male disposability is a widely held framework nowadays but I'm personally not convinced that disposability was the conscious, driving idea back then when the women-and-children-first idea was earlier practiced. I have to consider that men were viewed as more durable, more capable to survive the come-what-may, than women and children. I can't know that death always awaited the latter ones in line. Hardship, yes. And men are more likely to keep their cool, take directions, give directions, coordinate in a crisis, than the women would be. Men were dressed in pants which made them more utilitarian in movement than any woman in a dress could be.

Men built the ships, maintained the ships, ran the ships. Imagine the men then first to abandon the ships, leaving it to the women and children to deal with it. Makes no practical sense, really. Unfortunately, the gentlemen passengers on board who have never touched a monkey wrench get grouped with the capable men of which I speak, to join them in being last to leave, whether they like it or not. Still, not a disposability thing, to my mind. Doomed by association? I also consider that, to the extent women were less capable, and allowed to be, would that not mean that men were deemed more capable, and expected to be?

All of that steers my thinking away from cold-blooded disposability to matters of who's more likely to endure and survive?

Now, I might think, when the number of passengers exceeded lifeboat capacity, as what happened on the Titanic, the possibility of death really becomes apparent. So, they/we carried over from ideas already established, from the universalized thinking of war, that men do the fighting and the dying as they are more capable in that task than are women, for all of men's "advantages" I've mentioned above. Men are more likely to endure and survive. Brief reading informs me than cruise ships today are required to have lifeboats for 125% of capacity, at a minimum.

Today, if on a plane sinking in the Hudson River, as a man I did not build the airplane, maintain the airplane, or run the airplane, and importantly the women sitting next to me are wearing stretch pants instead of dresses and are expected in general to be more capable and sturdy than yesteryear's dainty women. Makes much less sense nowadays that I would be seen as clearly more advantaged to survive than these women, for them to deserve priority preservation over me. (How about non-swimmers first?) A claim of women-and-children-first nowadays would sound like a desperate attempt to milk that idea as far as it will go. Like how modern women try for chivalry when equality is less advantageous for them.

Ha, let's turn it around. If the future were to be female, as feminists once asserted would be the ship that they'd build, then in that catastrophe men and children should be given first dispensation to be rescued from its effects.

We shouldn't switch to a "men first" policy. If there's a disaster, they should simply get everyone out of there as soon as they can, regardless of gender.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

We shouldn't switch to a "men first" policy. If there's a disaster, they should simply get everyone out of there as soon as they can, regardless of gender.

Totally AGREE!

It should be a >"me"<>"first"< and if I'm still alive and out of danger, tactically and collectively organize the survivors to save others. (kind of what we do here if you think about it)

Right now our civilizations are on fire and burning down from every direction, has been for a long long time, at least for men anyway).

My primary focus is on myself, the multitudes are herded by fear and panic, they make no preparation for the future, not even a thought for tomorrow, always broke, always in debt, not willing to survive, wants others to do all the work, they just run around with their lives ablaze pouring petrol on themselves!

I've been surviving all my life, I survived not having a formal education, I survived the trend of not having your own place to live, I survived many long lost friends that went nowhere, I survived the horrors of divorce rape by not participating, I survived without paying interest, I survived and never filed for bankruptcy, and have a credit score that hovered around 850 since they began scoring credit. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying look at logic and follow its path wherever it leads, it's as easy as taking a bridge instead of swimming to the other side of tomorrow!

Anyone that screws with any aspect of your life, you need to isolate them in a cocoon of utter indifference. They'll drag you under faster than an anchor. Let them sink for not trying to swim themselves! The ME FIRST policy has given me the tools to help others, the other way around you go to the bottom chained to an anchor!

Charity has to have a beginning line and an ending line not spaced to far apart, otherwise we loose our humanity or become doormats, and too many men would rather be a doormat than sacrifice a little of their humanity, thereby adding to the overall chaos and calamity. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, the road to heaven is paved with wisdom.

There are fucking billions of women on the planet. We're in no danger of extinction. For fuck's sake, women MASS ABORT millions of their own children. Why the fuck should they go before me? The same got dam excuse is used to dispose of lower class men as conscripts in war. Fuck that. Fuck all of it. It's all one gigantic lie to privilege women and their state pimps/violence proxies. ALL WOMEN ARE DRAFT DODGERS.

If the US goes to war with Russia, guess what? Women in the military will be pulled off the front lines to the safety of the rear STRICTLY AS A MEANS TO MOVE MORE MEN TO THE FRONT LINES. That's not fucking equality. That's war crimes. That or they'll do what they did in the gulf war and 'fall pregnant'.

Men built, maintained, fought and died for this country and all upon it. What did they get for it? Women march on those same streets to disparage men en masse. Men have been pushed to the back of the bus, like racists of the past did to blacks, to make way for privileged women. FUCK THAT. FUCK ALL OF IT.

It's got not a got dam thing to do with survival and everything to do with privilege and male disposability, which is baked into the system by the MONSTERS we call women and their state pimps.

Fuck them. Fuck all of them.

Originally Posted by MannSplainer

There are fucking billions of women on the planet. We're in no danger of extinction. For fuck's sake, women MASS ABORT millions of their own children. Why the fuck should they go before me? The same got dam excuse is used to dispose of lower class men as conscripts in war. Fuck that. Fuck all of it. It's all one gigantic lie to privilege women and their state pimps/violence proxies. ALL WOMEN ARE DRAFT DODGERS.

If the US goes to war with Russia, guess what? Women in the military will be pulled off the front lines to the safety of the rear STRICTLY AS A MEANS TO MOVE MORE MEN TO THE FRONT LINES. That's not fucking equality. That's war crimes. That or they'll do what they did in the gulf war and 'fall pregnant'.

Men built, maintained, fought and died for this country and all upon it. What did they get for it? Women march on those same streets to disparage men en masse. Men have been pushed to the back of the bus, like racists of the past did to blacks, to make way for privileged women. FUCK THAT. FUCK ALL OF IT.

It's got not a got dam thing to do with survival and everything to do with privilege and male disposability, which is baked into the system by the MONSTERS we call women and their state pimps.

Fuck them. Fuck all of them.

I don't blame you for going black pill on that! But even from a black pill stance, a little kindness goes a long way to ease tensions, filling the fire engine with napalm, I'm almost certain isn't the answer! But I can sympathize with someone that does and at one time I would have held their hose!

Originally Posted by mgtower

I don't blame you for going black pill on that! But even from a black pill stance, a little kindness goes a long way to ease tensions, filling the fire engine with napalm, I'm almost certain isn't the answer! But I can sympathize with someone that does and at one time I would have held their hose!

I'm just so sick and tired of reading people's excuses and pussy passes. The system is fucking rigged to exploit and dispose of men. People need to wake the fuck up.

Originally Posted by MannSplainer

There are fucking billions of women on the planet. We're in no danger of extinction. For fuck's sake, women MASS ABORT millions of their own children. Why the fuck should they go before me? The same got dam excuse is used to dispose of lower class men as conscripts in war. Fuck that. Fuck all of it. It's all one gigantic lie to privilege women and their state pimps/violence proxies. ALL WOMEN ARE DRAFT DODGERS.

If the US goes to war with Russia, guess what? Women in the military will be pulled off the front lines to the safety of the rear STRICTLY AS A MEANS TO MOVE MORE MEN TO THE FRONT LINES. That's not fucking equality. That's war crimes. That or they'll do what they did in the gulf war and 'fall pregnant'.

Men built, maintained, fought and died for this country and all upon it. What did they get for it? Women march on those same streets to disparage men en masse. Men have been pushed to the back of the bus, like racists of the past did to blacks, to make way for privileged women. FUCK THAT. FUCK ALL OF IT.

It's got not a got dam thing to do with survival and everything to do with privilege and male disposability, which is baked into the system by the MONSTERS we call women and their state pimps.

Fuck them. Fuck all of them.

Yes, even if we wanted to make men and women totally equal, with an equal chance of getting drafted and having to fight and die for their country, that would not be possible because every woman has a "get out of the draft free" card. She just has to get knocked up, and even the ugliest women can find some dude desperate enough to fuck them.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

Yes, even if we wanted to make men and women totally equal, with an equal chance of getting drafted and having to fight and die for their country, that would be possible because every woman has a "get out of the draft free" card. She just has to get knocked up, and even the ugliest women can find some dude desperate enough to fuck them.

It's the same with the "affluent" and deferments. The system is rigged to privilege women and their state pimpistry/violence proxies. If you're wealthy or female - you get a get out of death free card. That's not equality. That's usury, exploitation and disposal of common men. That's using the marginalized as human sacrifices and human shields for one's own benefit. That's war crimes.

But others will make me the bad guy for saying so. They'll say I have anger management issues, rather than being a brave enough person to speak against the monsters who rule over us.

EDIT: And if you're a white male like me, you should be flipping the US Military and the US Government off. They've declared you persona non grata. You're being forced out of employment and education. Women are their state pimpistry/violence proxy have openly declared war against you.

Wake the fuck up. Fight back by not playing their rigged game.

Originally Posted by MannSplainer

EDIT: And if you're a white male like me, you should be flipping the US Military and the US Government off. They've declared you persona non grata. You're being forced out of employment and education. Women are their state pimpistry/violence proxy have openly declared war against you..

Yeah, it is amazing, once you wake up, just how deeply the anti-male sentiment goes. And women are already starting to complain that "Men are broke, Women most affected." They've built a perfect system for bringing us down in order to better their own position. And eventually even they will have to admit that by destroying the American males, they were destroying their own futures. For who will they leech off of when all the men are broke?

Originally Posted by MannSplainer

It's the same with the "affluent" and deferments. The system is rigged to privilege women and their state pimpistry/violence proxies. If you're wealthy or female - you get a get out of death free card. That's not equality. That's usury, exploitation and disposal of common men. That's using the marginalized as human sacrifices and human shields for one's own benefit. That's war crimes.

But others will make me the bad guy for saying so. They'll say I have anger management issues, rather than being a brave enough person to speak against the monsters who rule over us.

EDIT: And if you're a white male like me, you should be flipping the US Military and the US Government off. They've declared you persona non grata. You're being forced out of employment and education. Women are their state pimpistry/violence proxy have openly declared war against you.

Wake the fuck up. Fight back by not playing their rigged game.

You don't have to tell me, you're preaching to the choir! I focused on being resilient and work that much harder to get around it! It's going down the tubes without us! The entire ball of wax! Just because they make laws that say up is over, and down is back, in the real world, justice finds a way to restore up is up, over is over, down is down, and back is back! That's the core of MGTOW, we're a death blow to their little party, fun time is over! We're #1 domestic threat and they're right, because it's futile to stop us, like catching smoke with a fishing net, we're here but can't be reached, we stay out of range, we know all the traps!

People like you, ManSplainer, are the daggers of real time justice that stabs those fkn bastards in the BACK!

WELL DONE! No more Mr. Nice Guy!

Say hello to my little friend

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

Yes, even if we wanted to make men and women totally equal, with an equal chance of getting drafted and having to fight and die for their country, that would be possible because every woman has a "get out of the draft free" card. She just has to get knocked up, and even the ugliest women can find some dude desperate enough to fuck them.

How about forcing them to take the pill first?

Geez, only a day since the O.P. and I feel late to the show!

First I must agree with the sentiments expressed by TigPlaze about awakening and the realisation of how we were hoodwinked. Some 25/30 years ago I had recourse to re-examine all that I had been taught in life and found much – not all, but much – to be bullshit designed to exploit me, and by me I mean each and every one of us.

Being pre-internet forums, and therefore having little to no resources to draw upon I had to work it all out for myself and it took me a loooong time, some 5 years to get the basics down and I’m still learning, mostly from good folks like yourselves.

I do however have a question or two about the “Women & children first” scenario from the Titanic.

It would seem that this was not standard practice (if there was such a thing then) but was on the whim of the captain. A sign of the times that men are there to protect, serve and die if need be but not a general mandate.

But this brings me to another question:

So, you fill each and every lifeboat with women and children and cast them adrift, but this doesn’t make sense.

If women and children were seen as being so incapable wouldn’t it then make sense to have at least one or two men on each lifeboat to take charge and co-ordinate shit?

(Sarcasm follows)

Maybe the captain was well aware of this. He knew most if not all were going to perish but set the women and children off so they would find a longer and more drawn-out, painful death than the men!!!

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Geez, only a day since the O.P. and I feel late to the show!

First I must agree with the sentiments expressed by TigPlaze about awakening and the realisation of how we were hoodwinked. Some 25/30 years ago I had recourse to re-examine all that I had been taught in life and found much – not all, but much – to be bullshit designed to exploit me, and by me I mean each and every one of us.

Being pre-internet forums, and therefore having little to no resources to draw upon I had to work it all out for myself and it took me a loooong time, some 5 years to get the basics down and I’m still learning, mostly from good folks like yourselves.

I do however have a question or two about the “Women & children first” scenario from the Titanic.

It would seem that this was not standard practice (if there was such a thing then) but was on the whim of the captain. A sign of the times that men are there to protect, serve and die if need be but not a general mandate.

But this brings me to another question:

So, you fill each and every lifeboat with women and children and cast them adrift, but this doesn’t make sense.

If women and children were seen as being so incapable wouldn’t it then make sense to have at least one or two men on each lifeboat to take charge and co-ordinate shit?

(Sarcasm follows)

Maybe the captain was well aware of this. He knew most if not all were going to perish but set the women and children off so they would find a longer and more drawn-out, painful death than the men!!!

In a logical world the women and children would on the shoulders of the men and the lifeboats filled way past capacity because the waters were calm and everyone could have got out alive. But that's not what happened, the oligarchs took the boats out at half capacity because that's what oligarchs do, the rest of us are just hordes locked behind the gates.