Thread: Does anyone regret GYOW?

Originally Posted by Resdayn

The sad thing about Europe is that we have barbarians within our gates, muslims, and our governments and leftists welcome them with open arms If you speak out against that they brand you a nazi and all the -isms and -phobics. It's a fucking disgrace is what it is, and it pisses me off. 20 years ago I was trying out for the military because I wanted to do something for my country and culture, to defend it, and to help in foreign affairs, but now I'm glad I was refused because fuck getting wounded or dying for cunts who don't give a shit (and would probably call me a murderer anyways, like the hippies did with the soldiers who were shipped to 'Nam).

Watching your "open borders" kicked me in the head with a wooden shoe!
My minds eye saw everything Holland burn to the ground! Bye by the images of windmills, milkmaids, and church bells. I was in Holland (Amsterdam) and saw the start of integration and realized it wouldn't assimilate within days of my visit, when an ox size of a muzzelman walked through the market place intimidating each and every person up and down the narrow streets blocked off for tourists, pedestrians, in and around the redlight district and other areas of interest. Long story short (not really) he was following his 7th century doctrine by "striking fear into the hearts of the infidels", he was (what my brother and I dubbed) "rocking with the muzz"!

After that incident, two of them stalked us and attempted robbery by intimidation and stopped dead in their tracks my brother's stance and my actions toward an outdoor café where I saw set plates with forks, knives, and spoons, before I could take one more step they had already made their retreat, no further action was necessary, I was in it, to win it! My brother's Kung-fu stance was enough, I wasn't taking the chance they had cutlery too! We could have dropped those toothpicks like bags of potatoes and they knew it when their bluff went under! We were all about getting real fkn ugly on them, my brother was about to break their bones and thought I was walking away until I told him I was going for a knife! We're trained for hand to hand combat in the arts, octagon octane style!

Back to migration evaluations, here in the US, we're suffering almost the same fate but not really, instead of non assimilating "strike fear in the hearts of the infidels", we're getting a Spanish culture centuries isolated from Spain and us isolated from England, Holland, and France, a culture typical of Europe's 15'th century, throw in Asians, Africans, and a few others, we're all pretty much assimilated, unlike what liar media wants you to believe!

Now, with the focus off real terrorism, and on stickman homegrown terrorism, any day now we can expect another major event like 9/11, followed by a cascade of ongoing government ineptitude and misdirection to handle things like invasion of Ukraine, Taiwan, and other targets of adversarial interests.

We have Sleepy Slow Joe in the ring! He's attacking his own corner!

Originally Posted by NewLifeNewMe

I’m 34 now, I waited too long anyways. Unless you get married in your early or mid 20s you’re single your whole life is what society wants you to believe.

I just don’t know how I feel waking up in 20 years and see myself in the same spot alone, with no friends, with no house, nothing to show for it other than living in the same apartment, same boring job.

I know a lot of kids I grew up with are still single, even relatives still single.

I do feel there’s a lot of injustices with men in the world right now, but do I want to die in politics? Idk.

Some days I wake up and think “I could do anything today, lets go find a GF” and nothing happens.

I want to come back to this.

Something all men must understand and accept is that women don't love men. Harsh but true. Men love women in a sacrificial type of way. A woman's love for a man is more selfish in nature. It's about how best he can provide for her.

This has always been true. It's not like the feminist movement created that among women. The feminists exploited it, for sure. But they didn't create it.

In previous generations, men knew the limitations of a woman's love. Even if she loves him back, she doesn't love him in the same way he loves her. It's usually crushing for the modern man to discover this. Because he's been fed the same bullshit Hallmark movie nonsense as anyone else.

I say all of that to say this. A lot of men (even MGTOW's) mourn the perceived "loss" of something by GTOW. They think something has been taken away from them. And it isn't true. Women do not reciprocate a man's love back to him. The feelings you may have experienced for a woman have never been, will never be and can never be returned to you. Women do not love in that way.

Again, I'm not saying they don't experience romantic love. I'm just saying a woman's experience with romantic love for a man is very different from a man's experience with love for a woman.

On that basis, you haven't lost anything. You were never going to be loved by a woman in the same way you loved her. That was never on the table, even in "the good old days".

The entire point of GYOW is to love yourself and to pursue your own priorities in your own way in your own time. Whether that means earning a fortune and retiring at 40 or if it means pursuing your hobbies to the exclusion of all else, MGTOW allows us to set the agenda for our own lives.

And in a way, love of self might be the healthiest and safest love of all these days.

Originally Posted by OwenWentFullMGTOW

Something all men must understand and accept is that women don't love men. Harsh but true. Men love women in a sacrificial type of way. A woman's love for a man is more selfish in nature. It's about how best he can provide for her.

This has always been true. It's not like the feminist movement created that among women. The feminists exploited it, for sure. But they didn't create it.

In previous generations, men knew the limitations of a woman's love. Even if she loves him back, she doesn't love him in the same way he loves her. It's usually crushing for the modern man to discover this. Because he's been fed the same bullshit Hallmark movie nonsense as anyone else.

I say all of that to say this. A lot of men (even MGTOW's) mourn the perceived "loss" of something by GTOW. They think something has been taken away from them. And it isn't true. Women do not reciprocate a man's love back to him. The feelings you may have experienced for a woman have never been, will never be and can never be returned to you. Women do not love in that way.

Again, I'm not saying they don't experience romantic love. I'm just saying a woman's experience with romantic love for a man is very different from a man's experience with love for a woman.

On that basis, you haven't lost anything. You were never going to be loved by a woman in the same way you loved her. That was never on the table, even in "the good old days".

The entire point of GYOW is to love yourself and to pursue your own priorities in your own way in your own time. Whether that means earning a fortune and retiring at 40 or if it means pursuing your hobbies to the exclusion of all else, MGTOW allows us to set the agenda for our own lives.

And in a way, love of self might be the healthiest and safest love of all these days.

Awesome post!

And it's the absolute gospel truth.

Originally Posted by OwenWentFullMGTOW

I want to come back to this.

Something all men must understand and accept is that women don't love men. Harsh but true. Men love women in a sacrificial type of way. A woman's love for a man is more selfish in nature. It's about how best he can provide for her.

Fairness requires I say there are very rare exceptions. Mom and her sister were both hot. My aunt married the richest guy in town. Mom wasn't her equal but was not far behind. She could of had another guy just like that if she'd wanted. But she remained loyal to my father. For all the four years she outlived him, she was just waiting. I see the same loyalty in my cousin too, though she's not as hot as her aunts were.

So, Owen is right. We'll never find a unicorn but that don't mean there never was one.

You might as well rephrase it to "does anyone regret learning the truth"
Fraid once you've taken one red-pill you can't go back slaving away to the plantation bud, plenty has been said already in this thread.

Reality is harsh when you've been lied to your whole life, you may as well enjoy it while it lasts.

No, I don't regret being MGTOW. In fact, I love it. No one to nag you, no one to boss you around, money is king, I can eat and drink what I want, I can decorate my man cave how I want, I can sleep in until 11 AM. I got my best friend who likes to visit a few times a month and we do guy stuff like watch man movies, the news, wrestling, drink a beer or two, talk trash about Biden.

Yep, yep, yep, life is good! Don't waste your life chasing the bitches, because they'll ruin your life and they don't care.

Originally Posted by OwenWentFullMGTOW

In previous generations, men knew the limitations of a woman's love. Even if she loves him back, she doesn't love him in the same way he loves her. It's usually crushing for the modern man to discover this. Because he's been fed the same bullshit Hallmark movie nonsense as anyone else.

I say all of that to say this. A lot of men (even MGTOW's) mourn the perceived "loss" of something by GTOW. They think something has been taken away from them. And it isn't true. Women do not reciprocate a man's love back to him. The feelings you may have experienced for a woman have never been, will never be and can never be returned to you. Women do not love in that way.

Again, I'm not saying they don't experience romantic love. I'm just saying a woman's experience with romantic love for a man is very different from a man's experience with love for a woman.

Great stuff Owen. I'd also add that men of the past loved women for the simple fact that they provided offspring. Having heirs was vital to ensuring one's legacy, continuation of estates/ family wealth, etc. Men were far less concerned with having romantic feelings reciprocated. As long as a woman stayed in her lane, provided children and preferably came with a dowry, she was a good wife. It's Hollywood that's convinced us that relationships require romantic love.

Originally Posted by nameless

To add to my post above, romanticizing relationships is the most moronic thing a guy could do today.

Women don't want you. Not really. Chances are they never did, they wanted want you represent. Status, money, security... nothing she needs you for. Money and security she can get from big daddy government, status she can get from social media.

At best, you're just one thing to check off on her list... right before "get a divorce" and right after "have a fling while married".

Sure, true love is real. You just have to find it. Your soulmate is out there somewhere... currently taking it up the ass in a club bathroom stall. Don't worry though, it doesn't count because she doesn't know his name and he used a condom (well... not when she gave him head a few minutes earlier... but head doesn't really count either).

Then one day you wake up and realize, wait a second, I have options here. I don't have to put up with any of the garbage out there unless I want to.

Do you want to? I don't.

Due to a lack of Rites of Passage type ceremonies in Modern Western culture particularly, all that is left for women is "The Wedding", women don't speak about the marriage, they talk of "The Wedding" that says it all to me. It is something they NEED to have to feel some kind of validation. The fuss over the dresses, the cake, spending a small fortune on it all. Only down the track to break the vows she made (usually to God) and destroy her husband, break up her family, traumatize the kids.

She will use that kid to siphon money out of the guy till the kid turns 18. She will do all of these things to a man she once professed to actually love!

And yes, all those guys she had before you. They don't count. None of them. All that stuff she did. None of it counts and neither will you in the future.

Originally Posted by Kryptic

And yes, all those guys she had before you. They don't count. None of them. All that stuff she did. None of it counts and neither will you in the future.

Women are liars especially to themselves. The mental gymnastics I've seen women do to justify their actions is impressive. I'm sure many of us, or have had friends, involved in situations with women in which they found themselves portrayed as terrible brutes while the women play the victim card. Women can and will justify anything, especially hookups.

Originally Posted by Toolband89

Women are liars especially to themselves. The mental gymnastics I've seen women do to justify their actions is impressive. I'm sure many of us, or have had friends, involved in situations with women in which they found themselves portrayed as terrible brutes while the women play the victim card. Women can and will justify anything, especially hookups.

Whores can be the best for that kind of thing. Especially the ones with partners who sometimes don't know what they are really doing. They will treat female partners the same way they treat male ones. There isn't any loyalty to their own gender. The justifications and excuses are great.

I asked one whore what she thought her boyfriend would think about her job if he knew her response was "Well, if he loves me" umm if he loves you he may not want you fucking strange guys all day...

Another one was telling me about her boyfriend who lives in another country. He doesn't know about her job. She was telling me that she doesn't see what she does as that bad. She then started doing a lot of stuff with me that would normally cost extra but she didn't bother with that and even broke some rules.

Relationships are just a hobby now, nothing to be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by Kryptic

Whores can be the best for that kind of thing. Especially the ones with partners who sometimes don't know what they are really doing. They will treat female partners the same way they treat male ones. There isn't any loyalty to their own gender. The justifications and excuses are great.

I asked one whore what she thought her boyfriend would think about her job if he knew her response was "Well, if he loves me" umm if he loves you he may not want you fucking strange guys all day...

Another one was telling me about her boyfriend who lives in another country. He doesn't know about her job. She was telling me that she doesn't see what she does as that bad. She then started doing a lot of stuff with me that would normally cost extra but she didn't bother with that and even broke some rules.

Relationships are just a hobby now, nothing to be taken seriously.

Very interesting. I'm a very logical man, so a lot of female behavior perturbs me anyway. I accept it and choose to stay away from them. My own experience has taught me they only add drama to my life. But still, even things like their sexual fluidity are a bit vexing to me. Men are by and large binary creatures. One is either straight or not, with few exceptions in between and the vast majority being straight. The sheer number of "sexually fluid" women is staggering. I accept the reality of female nature, but I still can't stand their vacillant ways.

There's two versions of reality. One is to see the world for what it is, the other is to connect the dots in a way that one likes/feels it deem to be.

Men function in the former ways (as opposed to boys, who were sold this romance/love brouhaha and thus the rise of incels) while women in the latter.

Once a boy becomes a man ie losing the innocent perspectives of the world and sees it all for what it is: there's no going back from that. As Stardusk says 'I see everything in pixels'. The romantic, magical touch to live is lost forever but then you also gain a thorough insight into how the world works. Doesn't mean one has to be a hermit: you apply those knowledge gains into the well-being of your own life.

Eg: if you are into marketing you can target the wife than the husband when you are making the sales pitch. Or you don't have to be the nice guy around women for now you know what gets you laid (and what doesn't). Or if all of these doesn't appeal much (to the self) then create your own rules and then play by it (this only works if you have a thorough internal discipline).

So you see, the dilemma of regret over MGTOW is because post the red pill rage, one is stuck in the gallery still lamenting the loss of innocence while also seeing that it is all not that innocent right from the beginning.

I will put this in another way: if a woman in your life tells you what you want to hear and behaves the way you wanted:

will you abandon going your own way? marry her, regret your past (red pill), mock every guy who GHOW as a loser and derive a validation/worth to what you have with those who don't have it (in your perception).

Or tell yourself not to get high on these things, but since you would like a family, enter the partnership and use the red pill awareness to 'hold frame' to avoid the divorce/fallout as long as possible?

Or, dismiss it all as a feel good/hormonal, temporary phenomenon that you are falling for, laugh at yourself and then go back to doing whatever you were doing to make your life meaningful.

It's a rhetorical question, btw.

Originally Posted by Toolband89

Very interesting. I'm a very logical man, so a lot of female behavior perturbs me anyway. I accept it and choose to stay away from them. My own experience has taught me they only add drama to my life. But still, even things like their sexual fluidity are a bit vexing to me. Men are by and large binary creatures. One is either straight or not, with few exceptions in between and the vast majority being straight. The sheer number of "sexually fluid" women is staggering. I accept the reality of female nature, but I still can't stand their vacillant ways.

Women are turned on by their own sense of sexuality. To seduce a woman you generally tell her how beautiful she is, make her feel that way, tell her how much you want to do her etc It is all about her. They are also trend followers, at the moment it being Bi is big for them so they do that. When I was younger back in the 90's straight women who were friends would generally flirt and light kiss a little to get men's attention. Now it goes a lot further than that.

Overall sex for women seems to be a means for trade and also just to further inflate and stroke their own egos and trademark.

One non hooker woman I chatted with on a dating site told me she saw it as important to make men's fantasies come true! Really? You can just imagine how special that made me feel knowing she has done lord knows what kind of stuff with how many men!

So yeah there doesn't seem to be a lot to it in the end. Just trade and/or their own amusement and idea of self development.

Originally Posted by ResidentEvil7

No, I don't regret being MGTOW. In fact, I love it. No one to nag you, no one to boss you around, money is king, I can eat and drink what I want, I can decorate my man cave how I want, I can sleep in until 11 AM. I got my best friend who likes to visit a few times a month and we do guy stuff like watch man movies, the news, wrestling, drink a beer or two, talk trash about Biden.

Yep, yep, yep, life is good! Don't waste your life chasing the bitches, because they'll ruin your life and they don't care.

Your whole phoucking HOUSE is your "Man Cave". No limits. Isn't it great that the whole thing is yours to do as you wish with no limits, guidance, or approvals?!?

My "Man Cave" is also my at-home office, but honestly, i have two spare bedrooms in the finished basement and the general "TV" area with a small 4-top "gaming" table along with my books/bookcases down there. My house isn't, by any means large and certainly not ostentatious, but the whole place is mine! (Well, i'm buying it from the bank....).

Originally Posted by WXA

....Most of the time, the women that I was interested in, showed basically no interest in me. The tiny percentage that would get to know me, would allow me to provide them with attention for a while, but they would not get so attached that they wouldn't just simply walk away, sooner or later. I had all these great qualities that I had been led to believe were prized by society, and in reality it just wasn't true for dating, from my experiences.

An even smaller percentage of the time, I got some dates, even romantic relationships. But most of the time, again, the woman would always just walk away. I felt like they were in the opposite situation from me: While I had to try so much for just a rare opportunity to get to know someone that I wanted to date, I felt like those woman could easily find a new guy that they liked, just about whenever they wanted to switch guys. .... While my rare dating opportunities were huge deals for me, and I was so disappointed when they went nowhere, I felt like the dating system was such simple entertainment for those women, where they could have a great choice of many guys and be treated as incredibly special, without too much effort from them. In other words, the dating system was naturally great fun for them, but mostly a lot of disappointment for me.....

Really great post. I'd say that this is one of the top posts ever on this site. Your experience mirrors my own in so many ways. You quickly (or at least eventually) realize that the dating/relationship thing (not even talking marriage) is just so rigged that you're better off not playing. Eventually, you go your own way.

I know there are a lot of guys on here that have been through the marriage/divorce wringer--but I'd bet that there are a lot of guys--like you, like me--that never got very far in the dating/relationship game, and it wasn't for a lack of career success/working out/nice car etc. It's just that the game has become a rigged game.

As an important and related aside--I think it's generally true that for people who get to experience abundance in any aspect of life.....they just can't understand someone who has never been able to enjoy that abundance. They're not going to be able to understand your mentality, which is shaped by your experiences.

And so it is with women...."just try again!" Easy for them to say, when they've got so many guys approaching them. And, such is the depravity and disfunction of the American market that even women who are five and sixes (and even below) have multiple guys approaching them. Yeah....I'd rather not take part in that.

Originally Posted by Workabout

i have two spare bedrooms in the finished basement and the general "TV" area with a small 4-top "gaming" table.

Gaming table? You mean like shooting pool, Foosball, air hockey? I like those games. My future man cave (#4) will be the biggest one; gaming tables, 4K entertainment, a bar, pinball games, arcade games, neon signs and neon clocks, darts, LED lights, gaming/movie posters (I have 56 posters now). I get ideas from YouTube videos on what the future man cave will be like. But I'm saving up to buy a house in one lump sum in the future, then Man Cave #4 will be under construction.

The only regret I have is I didn't do it sooner. It would have saved a lot of wear and tear on my bank account.

Originally Posted by ResidentEvil7

Gaming table? You mean like shooting pool, Foosball, air hockey? I like those games. My future man cave (#4) will be the biggest one; gaming tables, 4K entertainment, a bar, pinball games, arcade games, neon signs and neon clocks, darts, LED lights, gaming/movie posters (I have 56 posters now). I get ideas from YouTube videos on what the future man cave will be like. But I'm saving up to buy a house in one lump sum in the future, then Man Cave #4 will be under construction.

Ahhh, sorry, no it's not a "gaming" table.... More like 'just a table', but i couldn't think of a way to describe it.... It's fairly high as are the chairs with it.... I occasionally play board games there w/my kids (well, not much lately anyway) hence "gaming table" - emphasis on table.

Originally Posted by Faramir

Really great post. I'd say that this is one of the top posts ever on this site. Your experience mirrors my own in so many ways. You quickly (or at least eventually) realize that the dating/relationship thing (not even talking marriage) is just so rigged that you're better off not playing. Eventually, you go your own way.

I know there are a lot of guys on here that have been through the marriage/divorce wringer--but I'd bet that there are a lot of guys--like you, like me--that never got very far in the dating/relationship game, and it wasn't for a lack of career success/working out/nice car etc. It's just that the game has become a rigged game.

As an important and related aside--I think it's generally true that for people who get to experience abundance in any aspect of life.....they just can't understand someone who has never been able to enjoy that abundance. They're not going to be able to understand your mentality, which is shaped by your experiences.

And so it is with women...."just try again!" Easy for them to say, when they've got so many guys approaching them. And, such is the depravity and disfunction of the American market that even women who are five and sixes (and even below) have multiple guys approaching them. Yeah....I'd rather not take part in that.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel very blessed by God. I've been fortunate enough to possess many desirable characteristics. Just the right amount of aggression, intelligence, and looks... add in a good sense of humor and I've never had problems pulling girls.

The problem to me has always been the girls themselves. All I ever wanted is this:

- no tattoos
- no drugs, no smoking, occasional drinking at most
- not a liberal/feminist/radical
- not fat
- virgin (not because "it's my property" but because it signifies self control, family values, and a forward-thinking mindset.... basically not a hedonistic bitch)

Notice I didn't say hot. I think beauty comes in many forms (like a nice voice, or a feminine, nurturing nature). I'm not saying I'd be happy if she were butt ugly, but looks aren't the end all be all as they will eventually decline anyway.

Show me one embodying these traits and I'll renounce my MGTOW ways. That's how confident I am they're not out there. Most girls I've known were promiscuous, psycho, attention-seeking validation vampires that only show their true colors when the chips are down.

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

The fact that you made this thread prompts my response.

If any member here regrets GHOW, he's likely left this site or requested a self-ban.

You sound like you still think a good life requires an emotional relationship with a woman. That she brings you friends, a house, and a non-boring job. I wonder why you think a woman facilitates your life, gets you off of your duff, cures your ennui.

You can have nice things in life without a woman figuring in. Members here can help you see this, or keep reading our site.

Back when Intros were mandatory, we required new members to tell us about how women have burned them. From what you wrote here, it sounds like you have not had such negative experiences that would keep you from contemplating getting a girlfriend.

I would ask each new member these two questions:

1) Do you have hopes for a girlfriend or wife, or of having an emotional relationship with a woman?

2) If a woman wanted to have an emotional relationship with you, would you let it happen?

If you cannot answer No to both questions, then you are not MGTOW.

Our site is for men who are unequivocally red pill. Please decide where you are at, in this important point of membership here.

Reply back and succinctly answer those two questions.

Thank you.

Personally, yes, to both, but not in the sense that you might be thinking. Yes, if nature was different, and if society was different, and if the courts were different, and if hypergamy wasn't real, and if this and if that, then sure, why not? If it was truly, genuinely beneficial to both parties it would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

But that's a fantasy. It's like saying I'd eat radioactive isotopes, if they weren't radioactive, provided good nutrition, and created responsibly.

And because it's a fantasy I don't even bother with women anymore. They can ask me out, they can shame me to try to guilt me into it, they can change laws... I don't care what they do, I'll never associate with them.