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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    There were many posts about the war in Ukraine and its implications on MGTOWs. There were also many posts about the ongoing culture war, about how feminism fueled by gynocentrism is destroying everything with its poisened ideology.

    I usually don't post links to videos I consider important, but in this case I will make an exception. Most of you know Dr. Jordan Peterson. He is a clinical psychiatrist and I really like his profound analysis.

    Not many hours ago, he posted a video in which he put forward the thesis that the war in Ukraine actually is a civil war. A civil war in the West - as Russia can be seen as a European country - between two factions.

    On one side there are the US and the EU, degenerated by the rise of ideologies (sex and race comes before competence / green energy comes before energy security / etc.) and Russia on the other side.

    It baffled me so much, that I am going to link the video here:



    For you who wondered where the video from Professor John J. Mearsheimer can be found (Peterson mentioned Mearsheimer's analysis on the conflict, which heavily differs from what the MSM tells you 24/7), I will also link it here:



    The stunning part is this: MGTOWs always pointed out that the decline is real. Now, it came to our doorstep. It is crucial to understand what this means.
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    I think Putin has done a great service to the "conservative" side of the West. At the end of the day, Woke might give some people the warm and fuzzies but no one wants to be under the boot of China or Russia or anyone else. There is a shift back to more conservative values and concerns. Europe are even reinstating their coal plants due to Putin turning off the gas. I think the West has finally learned it has relied far too much on others for it's needs.

    The West is also way too divided, the Left have done a great job at dividing society on every level and are now proceeding to subdivide, how many genders, sexualities do they want? We are even divided along dietary lines now!

  3. #3

    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    I think Putin has done a great service to the "conservative" side of the West. At the end of the day, Woke might give some people the warm and fuzzies but no one wants to be under the boot of China or Russia or anyone else. There is a shift back to more conservative values and concerns. Europe are even reinstating their coal plants due to Putin turning off the gas. I think the West has finally learned it has relied far too much on others for it's needs.

    The West is also way too divided, the Left have done a great job at dividing society on every level and are now proceeding to subdivide, how many genders, sexualities do they want? We are even divided along dietary lines now!
    I'm wondering if your prediction holds true. If you look at the strongest players involved, you'll see that the Left - or more precisely the left governed countries - wants the war against Russia as it is a threat to their woke, feminist agenda. The US under Biden is clearly woke and left-leaning. The US has also the biggest arsenal so far.

    Germany, the biggest economy and de facto shadow leader of the EU has also a leftist government with the green party. For them the war is useful to push for renewable energy and they are eager to send weapons because they do as the US tells them (they would never dare to act alone because of the history of Germany). Then there is France, where the leftist liberal president barely is able to hold the majority, while the right steadily is gaining support. France also supports Ukraine with weapons and equipment.

    And there is the wildcard, Turkey, with the first or second biggest army in Europe. But Turkey is more right leaning and does its own thing, controlling the EU not only with its power to regulate the refugee stream to Europe, but also by its function to shield the East flank against islamic terror...

    So,... all the left leaning countries are welcoming the war, which brings me to the conclusion that Peterson's claim is indeed true. It is a good opportunity to fight the (right leaning) enemy within, pushing their agendas further (woke, feminist, green energy, etc.) and fighting the enemy (Russia) who incorporates all they hate.

    In my estimation, if the right or the conservatives fail to gain the majority in the US and the key countries in Europe, this war will go on for a long time and even get worse. It's not even winter yet, but it will get cold, people will freeze, prices will go up more, inflation will get far worse...

    And that would be the perfect time to invade Taiwan because all the western countries would have so much problems to not be able to maintain the stream of money, supplies, energy, etc. to Ukraine. That's what I believe will happen.
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

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    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    My take is that the war is the perfect excuse to further implode western civilization under the social engineering experience of the western elites.
    There will be no resurgence of conservative values, because those values were destroyed by years of cultural vandalization of the west.

    It will take a generation of pain and hunger to restore any semblance of rationality.

    My friends, many tried to save Rome from itself, but Rome was but a rotten corpse, as is this civilization.

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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    JP doesn't disappoint.

    There are a number of people at play, all have a reason for the part they are playing. The WEF will be pushing the puppets to achieve Agenda 2030. Some of the depopulation will be starvation. Inflation to crash the economies to bring in CBDC or Central Bank Digital Currency that will lead to a Social Credit System similar to what's in China. The people in power want more power and are willing to make everyone's life miserable until we except total control by them. Covid was a warm up exercise. Lots of smoke and mirrors but the main act is coming up folks!!!

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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard View Post
    I'm wondering if your prediction holds true. If you look at the strongest players involved, you'll see that the Left - or more precisely the left governed countries - wants the war against Russia as it is a threat to their woke, feminist agenda. The US under Biden is clearly woke and left-leaning. The US has also the biggest arsenal so far.

    Germany, the biggest economy and de facto shadow leader of the EU has also a leftist government with the green party. For them the war is useful to push for renewable energy and they are eager to send weapons because they do as the US tells them (they would never dare to act alone because of the history of Germany). Then there is France, where the leftist liberal president barely is able to hold the majority, while the right steadily is gaining support. France also supports Ukraine with weapons and equipment.

    And there is the wildcard, Turkey, with the first or second biggest army in Europe. But Turkey is more right leaning and does its own thing, controlling the EU not only with its power to regulate the refugee stream to Europe, but also by its function to shield the East flank against islamic terror...

    So,... all the left leaning countries are welcoming the war, which brings me to the conclusion that Peterson's claim is indeed true. It is a good opportunity to fight the (right leaning) enemy within, pushing their agendas further (woke, feminist, green energy, etc.) and fighting the enemy (Russia) who incorporates all they hate.

    In my estimation, if the right or the conservatives fail to gain the majority in the US and the key countries in Europe, this war will go on for a long time and even get worse. It's not even winter yet, but it will get cold, people will freeze, prices will go up more, inflation will get far worse...

    And that would be the perfect time to invade Taiwan because all the western countries would have so much problems to not be able to maintain the stream of money, supplies, energy, etc. to Ukraine. That's what I believe will happen.
    I'm not claiming at all to be an expert in politics, this is just based on my own observations and experience during my lifetime. Things seem to come in cycles as everything has a lifespan. I think if it weren't for CoVid and now the Ukraine war, China rattling it's own sabre's, that the West would just keep on the same path it was already on.

    These things have changed it all though. NATO and Europe prior to Putin invading Ukraine was a lost cause, Europe had no interest in it's own defence as it thought no doubt that everything was just fine and dandy. Now Sweden and Finland are in NATO and NATO are building up numbers and arms. Just one example but it shows how one little thing just alters everything else.

    As Woke as Biden may be or pretends to be he still won't just lie down. A lot of Western countries aren't quite as Woke as we make them out to be either. It is like the Woke ones calling people racists just because some people don't like Indian food.

    I still think the Left are in decline. It will be people who start to swing it back to the middle not politicians.

    Edit: there’s also inflation at the moment. People tend to be less interested in feel good causes when times are tough. They become more pragmatic. Also Left wing parties tend to do worse at election time after they have been in power. I don’t think Biden will get a second term.
    Last edited by Kryptic; July 13, 2022 at 8:54 AM.

  7. #7

    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    I'm not claiming at all to be an expert in politics, this is just based on my own observations and experience during my lifetime. Things seem to come in cycles as everything has a lifespan. I think if it weren't for CoVid and now the Ukraine war, China rattling it's own sabre's, that the West would just keep on the same path it was already on.

    These things have changed it all though. NATO and Europe prior to Putin invading Ukraine was a lost cause, Europe had no interest in it's own defence as it thought no doubt that everything was just fine and dandy. Now Sweden and Finland are in NATO and NATO are building up numbers and arms. Just one example but it shows how one little thing just alters everything else.

    As Woke as Biden may be or pretends to be he still won't just lie down. A lot of Western countries aren't quite as Woke as we make them out to be either. It is like the Woke ones calling people racists just because some people don't like Indian food.

    I still think the Left are in decline. It will be people who start to swing it back to the middle not politicians.

    Edit: there’s also inflation at the moment. People tend to be less interested in feel good causes when times are tough. They become more pragmatic. Also Left wing parties tend to do worse at election time after they have been in power. I don’t think Biden will get a second term.
    You are right, there is a great chance that the next president of the US will be republican. I really hope so for the Americans. You know, I am fully aware that in my previous posts I didn't hesitate to bash American politics, however this doesn't mean that I don't like the American people.

    Regarding the European and American relationship I can share only my European view. Germany, again the biggest economy in Europe and very important in this matter, was almost completely destroyed in WWII. The bombing of German cities, the killing of millions of civilians until the very end of the war were unnecessary and war crimes. After the war the US financed (Marshall plan) the rebuilding of (West-)Germany - there is a big analogy to the Ukraine now. After the Soviet Union collapsed and the reunion of both, West- and East Germany (the latter controlled by the Soviets) happened, Germany focused on bettering the relationship with Russia. It was clear that peace in Europe can only be maintained with a certain respect for Russia.

    Here comes American politics in play. It is not in the best interest for the US to tolerate a friendly relationship between Europe and Russia. The US would loose a significant ammount of influence in Europe, and it would hurt the Monroe doctrin uf the US which is still valid. The US, in my opinion, needs Europe to fight China and Russia - both nations which do not tolerate interferences in their governmental, economical and cultural spheres.

    There is only one solution, the US would need to make a step back, accept that there are now other powers in the world and tolerate their development. If we, the human race, want peace and wealth and the freedom of choice, all world powers would need to agree on dividing the world in sovereign influence spheres.

    And there is a precedent to that. In the year 1494, the Treaty of Tordesillas was established by the Pope, the (new) world has been divided in a Spanish and a Portugese part. It didn't work until now, but I can at least imagine some variation of this treaty could be a good solution.

    But again, the US - as the European countries after the time of colonization - has to accept that other nations are entitled to chose their own leadership, have their own currency, etc.
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

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    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    With a bit more time I can elaborate my ideas about the subject. Not that we are in a place to discuss international politics, but because what is happening affects us all.

    After watching the video let me point out that nobody is allowed to go into the public square without disavowing any support for Russia, and even more, condemning its actions.

    This reeks about propaganda and speech controll.

    I knew the Mearsheimer's video even before this war. He is an international politics realist. Under his view nations are driven by interests, and actually we still have the same game that ever was, disguised for public consumption.

    What Mearsheimer call the liberal world order isnt actually liberal in the humanist sense, but more of a tecnocratic elitist and an oligarchy, with a vernier of democracy.

    When a few corporations control public speech, and it is so contrived to the point of reminding me of the USSR's Pravda, then you do not have an informed public.
    Throw at it divisive and repressive tactics like wokism, that only exists because of full support from the media, states and corporations, and you know that people have no say on what happens.

    What is happening in Ukraine is nothing more than an offensive of the liberal world order against its enemies using hybrid warfare, that resulted in a more conventional war.
    The first shoots were fired in 2014 with a coup sponsored by the liberal order, using mercenaries that targeted both sides as to obtain regime change in Ukraine.

    After decades of the liberal order blantant disregard for international law in conventional warefare (iraq, iran, libia, syria, afeganistan, etc.), and total submission of other countries via economic warfare, Russia has prepared its economy and army to face what they see as an invasion.
    Then all the sudden the international law applies and the civilian victims of the conflict are all but named it the TVs. Do notice the absence of the same information regarding the half-million civilian deaths (children only) on Iraq due to economic sanctions, a price that Madeline Albright said was "worth it".
    https://www.newsweek.com/watch-madel...rfaces-1691193

    Let us wake up from the imperial propaganda of the "liberal order", forget the woke distraction from the oligarchy, and see things as intelligent men.

    In a moral, ethical and juridical interpretation there are no good guys.

    One might wish their side wins, so that he (at least) is not made into a modern day slave or an economic migrant. There are no guarantees of this being the case however, because all signs indicate that a controlled demolition of the economy is underway, even if our side wins.

    I am grateful for the red pill, because it allows me the detachment of observing this without emotional investment. This gynocentric rotten society is heading for a biblical cataclysm that is well deserved.

    Give it a few months for the oil shock and world famine that is being engineered in our faces.

    I cannot but wonder about Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, how prescient it was in depicting our days.

  9. #9

    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    With a bit more time I can elaborate my ideas about the subject. Not that we are in a place to discuss international politics, but because what is happening affects us all.

    After watching the video let me point out that nobody is allowed to go into the public square without disavowing any support for Russia, and even more, condemning its actions.

    This reeks about propaganda and speech controll.

    I knew the Mearsheimer's video even before this war. He is an international politics realist. Under his view nations are driven by interests, and actually we still have the same game that ever was, disguised for public consumption.

    What Mearsheimer call the liberal world order isnt actually liberal in the humanist sense, but more of a tecnocratic elitist and an oligarchy, with a vernier of democracy.

    When a few corporations control public speech, and it is so contrived to the point of reminding me of the USSR's Pravda, then you do not have an informed public.
    Throw at it divisive and repressive tactics like wokism, that only exists because of full support from the media, states and corporations, and you know that people have no say on what happens.

    What is happening in Ukraine is nothing more than an offensive of the liberal world order against its enemies using hybrid warfare, that resulted in a more conventional war.
    The first shoots were fired in 2014 with a coup sponsored by the liberal order, using mercenaries that targeted both sides as to obtain regime change in Ukraine.

    After decades of the liberal order blantant disregard for international law in conventional warefare (iraq, iran, libia, syria, afeganistan, etc.), and total submission of other countries via economic warfare, Russia has prepared its economy and army to face what they see as an invasion.
    Then all the sudden the international law applies and the civilian victims of the conflict are all but named it the TVs. Do notice the absence of the same information regarding the half-million civilian deaths (children only) on Iraq due to economic sanctions, a price that Madeline Albright said was "worth it".
    https://www.newsweek.com/watch-madel...rfaces-1691193

    Let us wake up from the imperial propaganda of the "liberal order", forget the woke distraction from the oligarchy, and see things as intelligent men.

    In a moral, ethical and juridical interpretation there are no good guys.

    One might wish their side wins, so that he (at least) is not made into a modern day slave or an economic migrant. There are no guarantees of this being the case however, because all signs indicate that a controlled demolition of the economy is underway, even if our side wins.

    I am grateful for the red pill, because it allows me the detachment of observing this without emotional investment. This gynocentric rotten society is heading for a biblical cataclysm that is well deserved.

    Give it a few months for the oil shock and world famine that is being engineered in our faces.

    I cannot but wonder about Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, how prescient it was in depicting our days.
    I'm totally with you on this. What a nightmare!
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Jordan Peterson is a mentally disturbed old man who is stuck in a different era of old-order-thinking.

    He once called mgtow “pathetic weasels” and if you want to know what’s actually going on with this dude, I recommend you take a look at his offspring …

    Youtube constantly tries to recommend his pseudo-intellectual ramblings to me and I block every channel that hosts any of his crap.

    And no, there is no “civil war” in the west. The “right” and the “left” are the exact same thing. The “right” is just slower and about 10 years behind the times. If you take a democrat from 10 years ago he will be undistinguishable from a republican now.

  11. #11

    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bam View Post
    Jordan Peterson is a mentally disturbed old man who is stuck in a different era of old-order-thinking.

    He once called mgtow “pathetic weasels” and if you want to know what’s actually going on with this dude, I recommend you take a look at his offspring …

    Youtube constantly tries to recommend his pseudo-intellectual ramblings to me and I block every channel that hosts any of his crap.

    And no, there is no “civil war” in the west. The “right” and the “left” are the exact same thing. The “right” is just slower and about 10 years behind the times. If you take a democrat from 10 years ago he will be undistinguishable from a republican now.
    Oh boy, so many ad hominem attacks at once! What is your point and why? Only personal dislike doesn't discredit a thesis. And excuse me, this new and old order thinking thing is a copy of Rollo Tomassi who talks about it all the time. It is no secret that everything changes, but some things never change. And only because something is old doesn't mean it is unvalid 2000 years in the future.
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard View Post
    Oh boy, so many ad hominem attacks at once! What is your point and why? Only personal dislike doesn't discredit a thesis. And excuse me, this new and old order thinking thing is a copy of Rollo Tomassi who talks about it all the time. It is no secret that everything changes, but some things never change. And only because something is old doesn't mean it is unvalid 2000 years in the future.
    The problem with Peterson is not that he is old. (60 is actually young, biologically speaking)

    The problem with him is that he is guiding young men onto a wrong path that didn’t work for him and will not work for them. And by the time they realize this it will be too late.

    And yes, Tomassi is 100% correct about Peterson and his old order thinking.

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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bam View Post
    And no, there is no “civil war” in the west.
    Just leaving this here...






    China has concentration camps now. Why do Westerners claim our sins are unique?
    It is now in vogue to celebrate non-Western cultures and disparage Western ones. Some of this is a much-needed reckoning, but much of it fatally undermines the very things that created the greatest, most humane civilization in the world.
    In The War on the West, Douglas Murray shows how many well-meaning people have been fooled by hypocritical and inconsistent anti-West rhetoric. After all, if we must discard the ideas of Kant, Hume, and Mill for their opinions on race, shouldn’t we discard Marx, whose work is peppered with racial slurs and anti-Semitism? Embers of racism remain to be stamped out in America, but what about the raging racist inferno in the Middle East and Asia?
    It’s not just dishonest scholars who benefit from this intellectual fraud but hostile nations and human rights abusers hoping to distract from their own ongoing villainy. Dictators who slaughter their own people are happy to jump on the “America is a racist country” bandwagon and mimic the language of antiracism and “pro-justice” movements as PR while making authoritarian conquests.
    If the West is to survive, it must be defended. The War on the West is not only an incisive takedown of foolish anti-Western arguments but also a rigorous new apologetic for civilization itself.



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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacknife View Post
    Just leaving this here...






    China has concentration camps now. Why do Westerners claim our sins are unique?
    It is now in vogue to celebrate non-Western cultures and disparage Western ones. Some of this is a much-needed reckoning, but much of it fatally undermines the very things that created the greatest, most humane civilization in the world.
    In The War on the West, Douglas Murray shows how many well-meaning people have been fooled by hypocritical and inconsistent anti-West rhetoric. After all, if we must discard the ideas of Kant, Hume, and Mill for their opinions on race, shouldn’t we discard Marx, whose work is peppered with racial slurs and anti-Semitism? Embers of racism remain to be stamped out in America, but what about the raging racist inferno in the Middle East and Asia?
    It’s not just dishonest scholars who benefit from this intellectual fraud but hostile nations and human rights abusers hoping to distract from their own ongoing villainy. Dictators who slaughter their own people are happy to jump on the “America is a racist country” bandwagon and mimic the language of antiracism and “pro-justice” movements as PR while making authoritarian conquests.
    If the West is to survive, it must be defended. The War on the West is not only an incisive takedown of foolish anti-Western arguments but also a rigorous new apologetic for civilization itself.
    I agree that there is a war going on. But it’s not a civil war.

    It’s a war on our freedom and nobody appears to be on our side.

    I remember 20 years ago when Bush and his goons introduced the patriot act I explained to everybody that the point of it was to use it against Americans not “terrorists”. And as we’ve seen that is exactly what they are doing.

    The right and the left are the same thing. They are both fighting a war against us.

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    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bam View Post
    I agree that there is a war going on. But it’s not a civil war.

    It’s a war on our freedom and nobody appears to be on our side.

    I remember 20 years ago when Bush and his goons introduced the patriot act I explained to everybody that the point of it was to use it against Americans not “terrorists”. And as we’ve seen that is exactly what they are doing.

    The right and the left are the same thing. They are both fighting a war against us.
    Two arms of the same political body, a body that has become self destructive to its own ends, and whenever any political body becomes self destructive, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.

    I do not recognize nor consent to this mangled dead body politic AKA The United States of America and all it embodies. I refuse to gaslight myself to believe otherwise, that would be ignoring my own obvious incontrovertible evidence tried in a court of law and upheld by the court's eternal and endless silence.

    Trust me, stick a fork in it and go your own way! That's what I did!
    You will eat Greta Thunberg's bug-burgers and be happy.

  16. #16

    Re: Do we acknowledge a culture, civil war in the West?

    Douglas Murray's book is on point and he is a misunderstood genius in my humble opinion. He really is. And only the Lord knows how much shit people threw at him for this book.

    I mean, I know what you mean, when you say that "old order thinking" doesn't work anymore with society in general; and women in particular. But (!) it doesn't mean that you should adapt your outer self, your role you are expected to play with your inner self, your soul, your being.

    Look, I can only speak for myself but if you adapt fully to the Borgs, you will end up as a blue-pilled PUA or as a blue-pilled SIMP. It's just the natural way. You may think that you have the control because of your body, your wallet and your game, but in the end the judge, the police or society will make you bend over for their rules, no matter what. It's their game, it's their rules, it's their matrix.

    So my strong advise to all young men is to develop the capabilites to maintain and strenghten their inner self, their values, their beliefs, and their true being at all cost (!). And while growing from within - and you want to take part in society - there is also the need to get skilled in deception to fly under the social, political radar. Be like the Northern God Loki, or the Roman God Janus, a shape-shifter, flexible and effective, while still keeping on your values. In some way, MGTOWs are like agents behind enemy lines, wait, I mean there is no friendly territory. And the anger you will undoubtedly accumulate you can transform in your own personal way. You may write, do sports, paint, sing, dance, cook, prepare for Armaggedon, ...or write in a forum, you know, just go your own way.
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus


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