Thread: Do I have control over my life?

This is not mgtow related but a question for the older members about life. So I’m living in Canada but am originally from a different country and here for better education and a better life but I miss home and am planning to go back as soon as I’m done studying, but I have no clarity about life or what to do with it I’m just pretty much following what my parents have told me or what people around me have influenced me to do but I want to know how to break this cycle of getting good grades in high school, then a good degree, masters, high paying job, career, marriage, kids which I won’t do but will probably be pressured to and if I can’t or won’t do this then I’ll be burning all bridges. I understand money is important in your later years in life but why can’t I just live a care free life without having to fulfil all these obligations?

Originally Posted by ForeverBachelor

This is not mgtow related but a question for the older members about life. So I’m living in Canada but am originally from a different country and here for better education and a better life but I miss home and am planning to go back as soon as I’m done studying, but I have no clarity about life or what to do with it I’m just pretty much following what my parents have told me or what people around me have influenced me to do but I want to know how to break this cycle of getting good grades in high school, then a good degree, masters, high paying job, career, marriage, kids which I won’t do but will probably be pressured to and if I can’t or won’t do this then I’ll be burning all bridges. I understand money is important in your later years in life but why can’t I just live a care free life without having to fulfil all these obligations?

All of the above but stop dead at marriage! You listed a string of pearls with a couple turds at the end!

Originally Posted by ForeverBachelor

This is not mgtow related but a question for the older members about life. So I’m living in Canada but am originally from a different country and here for better education and a better life but I miss home and am planning to go back as soon as I’m done studying, but I have no clarity about life or what to do with it I’m just pretty much following what my parents have told me or what people around me have influenced me to do but I want to know how to break this cycle of getting good grades in high school, then a good degree, masters, high paying job, career, marriage, kids which I won’t do but will probably be pressured to and if I can’t or won’t do this then I’ll be burning all bridges. I understand money is important in your later years in life but why can’t I just live a care free life without having to fulfil all these obligations?

See if you can set it up so that you get paid well for doing something you enjoy. Then build up health and wealth and enjoy your life WITHOUT getting married or having kids.

Originally Posted by ForeverBachelor

This is not mgtow related but a question for the older members about life. So I’m living in Canada but am originally from a different country and here for better education and a better life but I miss home and am planning to go back as soon as I’m done studying, but I have no clarity about life or what to do with it I’m just pretty much following what my parents have told me or what people around me have influenced me to do but I want to know how to break this cycle of getting good grades in high school, then a good degree, masters, high paying job, career, marriage, kids which I won’t do but will probably be pressured to and if I can’t or won’t do this then I’ll be burning all bridges. I understand money is important in your later years in life but why can’t I just live a care free life without having to fulfil all these obligations?

I infer you view that list as obligations to others.

Exclude marriage and kids from that list and what you have left is an obligation to yourself.

They are the string of pearls that mgtower points out.

It has been said that the actions taken by a young man during his years 18-24 will decide the course of his life. I can believe that.

No, you don't have to choose a path more interesting to your parents than to yourself. Education and a good job is still a smart road to travel. Pick the road yourself.

Just what is a care-free life? Nobody I have ever met actually lives one. We have needs all of our lives, to feed ourselves, clothe ourselves, have a roof over our heads, and be able to maintain our health, including health insurance. This never ends. And then hopefully have money left over to enjoy ourselves. This leftover money is called discretionary income and is the money you have to invest, save, or spend after necessities are paid.

Maybe you did not mean to exclude those necessities in what you envision as care-free. But, those things exist. If you want to be itinerant, moving from job to job, or more likely getting bumped from job to job, if that is your idea of care-free, that takes a very unique type of person, and when they are older and their body cannot do the hard work, they have limited choices for themselves in where they live and how they live, mostly because they did not, or could not, save money for their older age.

Somewhere between feeling a burden of your parents' expectations of you, and being an itinerant who floats along with the current, is where you will plan yourself to be.

In the next several years your mind will experience a growth of maturity and your forward vision will improve and, with that, an increase in confidence. I believe you will move away from thinking that every move you make is a confirmation or a repudiation of your parents' wishes. You will become your own.

Some men go to college/university. Other men find careers in the trades. All is good if it makes you happy. I will add to that, always be forward-thinking.

I will always advise a young man to work to build his life and be sure to start early to save money, invest money, for his future. Money is indeed important in your later years, as it provides you options for living and is your reward for all of your earlier planning and hard work. And, if you encounter negative, life-changing surprises along the way, it is better to have a little cash on hand than no cash at all. More cash is better.

I always say, Tomorrow always comes. How will you be there to greet it?

Yes, you have control over your life. You are not burning bridges when you are building your own future. Education and a good-paying job will help you in this.

You'll have/ having obligations but you don't need to worry about them. You can but you don't have to. As for your question "do I have control over my life?" My answer is yes and no.
The yes part being: you totally control your own (re)actions towards situations you don't have control over. A nice life hack I wish I learned sooner is the circle or influence. It's being used in psychology a lot.
"What's that?" Well, picture yourself in the middle of everything. Around that point there are 2 "circles" of situations/ people/ things a.s.o. which both have influence on you. The inner circle are the things you have control over. F.e. the clothes you're wearing now, reading my post. The outer circle are the things you don't have any control over, yet influences you. F.e. me writing this post now, your parents telling you how to live your life.
A huge leak of energy with this model I'm seeing is twofold: 1 people are avoiding the inner circle and 2 are trying to influence the outer one. That's insane because it'll only cost you energy and will yield you nothing other than suffering.
And I think I'm seeing you doing that right now. You miss home and you seem to worry about the future. You missing home is in the inner circle. The inner circle can be dealt with in 3 ways: walk away, deal with the situation or accept it. Make a choice and accept that choice. The telling you what to do is in the outer circle. The way to deal with that is to bring it to the inner circle. Your parents telling you you should get married, here men are telling you not to. All things you don't have control over. Yet you do control which choices you make. It's your life, OP, your path and not anyone else's. I advise you to ask yourself a few questions: do I want to go home? do I want to follow the studies? do I want (not) to get married? And you don't need to answer those right away.

One of the most sources of suffering I'm seeing is people trying to seek happiness/ joy from the outside. That's impossible. It comes from within. Nobody or nothing can make you (un)happy except you yourself. As I found out it's no use to live my life for somebody else. I make my own choices and accept the consequences. Sure, I'll listen to advice and I care for people and will help said people where I can. But they can't make me happy nor the other way around.

There are already some pearls of wisdom here in the few responses - and I'll add some of my own observations and recommendations.

1 - Whatever you do, don't get into debt. Ever. For anything (including education, if not already too late). 1 exception - unless you are leveraging an existing asset in order to invest said funds into another income generating and appreciating asset. If any of these terms are unknown to you, then that just further exemplifies my point (source - 25 years in finance, primarily as a lender). If you think marriage/family is slavery, they have nothing on debt. This is the first and most important rule to living a life on your own terms, not someone else's.

2 - Find something that you truly love doing and are passionate about - you have to be excited to get up every morning. Yes, money for basic needs is critical so you aren't a leach on others or society, but following your passion (with reasonable clarity and expectations) has a remarkable way of working out the other details (like money) on its own. Yes, there will be bad (and even terrible) days, experiences etc. That's just called life.

3 - You need to stop caring about what other people think of your choices - even if that means burning bridges (including with those you are closest to). Think about it - if they really cared about you and your happiness (and not some selfish desire to see you live a life that they control, or to live vicariously through you), they would fully support your own decisions. Yes, you may lose some people from you life forever (and you will be much better off without them in your life), but most people will see your happiness and peace of mind as something good, and will accept your decision to walk your own path.

4 - Reflect/meditate/pray (whatever works for you) on your choices and path as often as you can - preferably in nature. Keep asking questions of yourself (and others) like you have in this post. Never stop learning about yourself and the world you live in. Experience as much as you can of everything this amazing existence/world/planet etc has to offer. If you haven't realized it yet, you will soon come to the conclusion that the more you learn, the less you realize you know. It is quite freeing and rather exciting.

5 - Don't take anything I have said as gospel, truth or even relevant. If some of these ideas resonate with you - great. If not, it's your life. Get busy living it, because from all I have experienced myself, and all I've seen/heard from those nearing the end of their journey is that it all goes by in a flash - and people rarely regret the things they did - but deeply regret the things they didn't do.

Originally Posted by KRFJames

There are already some pearls of wisdom here in the few responses - and I'll add some of my own observations and recommendations.

1 - Whatever you do, don't get into debt. Ever. For anything (including education, if not already too late). 1 exception - unless you are leveraging an existing asset in order to invest said funds into another income generating and appreciating asset. If any of these terms are unknown to you, then that just further exemplifies my point (source - 25 years in finance, primarily as a lender). If you think marriage/family is slavery, they have nothing on debt. This is the first and most important rule to living a life on your own terms, not someone else's.

There is good debt and bad debt. Generally speaking, good debt are for assets that appreciate (house, education, skills). Good debt is ok to get into.

And leveraging is generally a very bad idea.

IMO, doing what you enjoy to make money is not the path you want.

You want to make the most amount of money in the least amount of effort to do the things you enjoy the most.

I would get into office jobs that let you work from home. You're going to need some type of education for that.

Originally Posted by ForeverBachelor

This is not mgtow related but a question for the older members about life. So I’m living in Canada but am originally from a different country and here for better education and a better life but I miss home and am planning to go back as soon as I’m done studying, but I have no clarity about life or what to do with it I’m just pretty much following what my parents have told me or what people around me have influenced me to do but I want to know how to break this cycle of getting good grades in high school, then a good degree, masters, high paying job, career, marriage, kids which I won’t do but will probably be pressured to and if I can’t or won’t do this then I’ll be burning all bridges. I understand money is important in your later years in life but why can’t I just live a care free life without having to fulfil all these obligations?

I don't know your spirituality or what religion you subscribe to, if any, but you must know that the only path to real happiness, and the ultimate truth, is through Christ. The only way to God and into heaven is through Christ. Embrace him and believe in him and he will guide you on your right path.
Jesus mentioned that a wealthy man will have a harder time getting into heaven than a camel squeezing through the eye of a needle. Look at it this way, you only live on earth for an average of 80 years. You will be in heaven for eternity. How you live your life on earth will determine your afterlife. What do you want to bank on? The 80 years, or eternity? Live your life humbly, righteously, and without amassing unnecessary wealth. Follow in the foot steps of Jesus and you will be happy, fulfilled, and at peace during your short life here on earth.

I agree with this advice. I've found that trying to do what I've enjoyed as a hobby, as my vocation, pretty much destroys the fun. Some people can make it work, but I'm not one of them.

Originally Posted by opensource

IMO, doing what you enjoy to make money is not the path you want.

You want to make the most amount of money in the least amount of effort to do the things you enjoy the most.

I would get into office jobs that let you work from home. You're going to need some type of education for that.

I have lived a somewhat carefree life, and am pretty content in life.

“Somewhat” because as others have said you have to take care of the basics – shelter, clothing and food. Only when those bases are covered should you relax a little. A good education in a profitable field is an excellent step in ensuring this is possible, but it doesn’t stop there.

Formal education is the stepping stone not the destination. You may find, however, that your chosen course of study suddenly seems like the wrong path, that you wish to do something else with your career.

This is no reason to walk away. Sometimes it’s possible to change your degree course to something you find more interesting mid-flight so to speak. Sometimes not. Either way you should complete your degree as most of the skills you learn are transferrable to other fields. Studying is as much about learning how to educate yourself as it is about the field which you study.


But anyway, I digress.

I have learned to live without debt. KFRJames said debt is slavery and I have to agree, unless it generates income it’s a fools move. As for appreciating in value, there is one exception IMO and that is transport. Vehicles depreciate in value very quickly but so long as you make more than you spend, e.g. if it’s required for your job that pays for it and more, then I can see the benefits there.

So, to my “carefree” life:

I always took the tack that once the basics are taken care of the rest is mine to do with as I please, but there is a trap here: what of the future?

And so I always tried to have a “rainy day” fund, and the rest I did what I liked with – drinking, carousing, womanising, spending on interests and for the most part it has served me well. I’m certainly happier in life than most I see around me.

But now comes the crunch. My “rainy day” fund is important yes, but it just doesn’t cut it when you get older.

My life could, and yet well may, turn upside down and inside out tomorrow and there won’t be a goddamn thing I can do about it.

Why? Because I lived a carefree life; living for the here and now for tomorrow may never come. Well, tomorrow is now today and my financial situation is totally fucked.

Yes I’m happy, even content at the moment but most of this is due to not having a woman in my life. Financially I’m living on a knife’s edge. Don’t make my mistake. Plan your future. The lure of the carefree life is sexy, but nothing is for free.

Originally Posted by opensource

There is good debt and bad debt. Generally speaking, good debt are for assets that appreciate (house, education, skills). Good debt is ok to get into.

And leveraging is generally a very bad idea.

I'll clarify this a bit - the only good debt (aside from long-term real estate) is that related to business, assuming you own one yourself. Examples include borrowing to fulfill a customer order, or expanding into new and proven markets.

The leveraging I referred to is based on real estate and nothing else (not the commonly used term in equity investing/stocks). As I mentioned, leverage assets only - stocks aren't assets, they are speculative investments. Yes, real estate can be as well if looked at through a short-term lense.

I've spent the majority of my career advising individuals, businesses and corporations on financial matters, primarily as a lender. I stand by my advice to avoid debt at all costs, aside from some very specific and well-planned situations. It's a trap.

Originally Posted by WPL

I agree with this advice. I've found that trying to do what I've enjoyed as a hobby, as my vocation, pretty much destroys the fun. Some people can make it work, but I'm not one of them.

Agree totally that if you take a hobby and try to make a living with it, because you have bills/debts to pay and you hate your current job, you are setting yourself up for destroying what little joy you have in your life. I've seen this a lot, 2 typical examples are the home gardener who decides to become a farmer, and the home cook who decides to become a chef.

This isn't what I was referring to. You can have a great career that you thoroughly enjoy and are passionate about in any given field. That can include entrepreneurship through commercializing a hobby, but doesn't have to. I know plenty of professionals, tradespeople and others who love their job - it isn't "work" for them, although it certainly pays the bills.

The advice above to just take any job that makes money so you can do what you want in your spare time is terrible, and from my interpretation of the OP's advice request, is exactly what he isn't looking for.

How is that any different than marriage for MGTOW. I fully appreciate our community here is related to MGTOW as it applies to relationships with women - but the philosophy can and should apply outside of that as well.

Falling into the trap of "get good grades, get a good job" etc is an extension of it if you hate your job - and there is the reality you may very likely end up with a woman manager - which has all the wonderful benefits of being married to one, without the occasional blow job unless she is a slut.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Formal education is the stepping stone not the destination. You may find, however, that your chosen course of study suddenly seems like the wrong path, that you wish to do something else with your career.

This is no reason to walk away. Sometimes it’s possible to change your degree course to something you find more interesting mid-flight so to speak. Sometimes not. Either way you should complete your degree as most of the skills you learn are transferrable to other fields. Studying is as much about learning how to educate yourself as it is about the field which you study.


But anyway, I digress.

I have learned to live without debt. KFRJames said debt is slavery and I have to agree, unless it generates income it’s a fools move. As for appreciating in value, there is one exception IMO and that is transport. Vehicles depreciate in value very quickly but so long as you make more than you spend, e.g. if it’s required for your job that pays for it and more, then I can see the benefits there.

So, to my “carefree” life:

I always took the tack that once the basics are taken care of the rest is mine to do with as I please, but there is a trap here: what of the future?

And so I always tried to have a “rainy day” fund, and the rest I did what I liked with – drinking, carousing, womanising, spending on interests and for the most part it has served me well. I’m certainly happier in life than most I see around me.

But now comes the crunch. My “rainy day” fund is important yes, but it just doesn’t cut it when you get older.

My life could, and yet well may, turn upside down and inside out tomorrow and there won’t be a goddamn thing I can do about it.

Why? Because I lived a carefree life; living for the here and now for tomorrow may never come. Well, tomorrow is now today and my financial situation is totally fucked.

Yes I’m happy, even content at the moment but most of this is due to not having a woman in my life. Financially I’m living on a knife’s edge. Don’t make my mistake. Plan your future. The lure of the carefree life is sexy, but nothing is for free.

Yes education is critical - I hope my advice not to borrow for it was not taken as advice to not get any. Education also comes in many forms, it doesn't have to mean post-secondary. It entirely depends on what path one intends to pursue.

The comment that skills learned through higher education are transferable is also spot on.

As not everything is black and white - I suppose I will concede there are situations when borrowing for a degree etc is applicable. That would include high-demand work (like health care or trades) where you are virtually guaranteed a job upon graduation (the passion for it advice still stands).

I suppose my overall point on financial matters somewhat aligns with Chris007 above - as long as basic needs are met - if you are spending your days doing what you truly love, generating excess wealth through a shitty job is more of a burden and a recipe for a life of disappointment and quiet desperation.

Originally Posted by ForeverBachelor

So I’m living in Canada but am originally from a different country

If you can, get citizenship. It may not seem important now, but it gives you another passport if you can still hold your citizenship in your home country. Dual citizenship opens doors. Make it happen while you are there if possible.

Taking that in mind, do whatever you can to expand your education or experience, I'm thinking night school courses in a related field, or your employer wants you to upgrade... Just do it or demand up schooling from your employer if possible. It all counts on a resume... "Short term pain" paying for courses is "long term gain" in time.

Great advice from everyone else... Keep away from the gash, it's a trap...

Young man, I am very late int replying to this thread so please forgive me if I repeat what someone else has said.


First, you are not completely in control of your life, nor is your life completely controlled by others. You have a degree of control over your life which, at your discretion, you may relinquish. The key is to know if this loss of control is temporary or permanent and if it's worth it to you.


My first piece of advice is to not take any advice at face value...and that includes what you're reading right now. Actively seek out contrary advice and work it out for yourself which seems more reasonable. Feel free to take bits and pieces from differing sources and combine them. Your life is yours and you are the only one fully invested in it. You are the final arbitrator. That said...


High school. There is no reason to not pursue high marks in high school. You're getting free education and knowledge is the most valuable thing out there. I suggest you pursue math as far as you can, followed by science and useful skills such as computer programming. Understanding how your government works...or is supposed to work...is also useful to know. Learn anything you can.


College. Now is where we get into choices. If you are like most, if you want to obtain higher education, you're going to have to take out a loan to do so. Going into debt means that you are giving up some of the control over your life to whomever lends you the money, so you have to think long and hard about it before you do. In my opinion, the purpose of higher education is to give you skills that others will be willing to pay you to utilize. Going to college to "expand your mind" or "experience new things" is a waste of time and money...unless someone else finds your expanded mind or new experiences to be useful. You can expand your mind and experience new things at a fraction of the cost that a college will charge you.


Career. This is where it gets really tricky, because at your age, you probably don't know exactly what you want to do with your life. This is normal, you're young. However, you should have some things that interest you and that's a good place to start. I'm not going to repeat the phrase "find something you love doing and you'll never work a day in your life" because that's not necessarily good advice. If you love doing it, plenty of others are probably going to love doing it as well...and that's going to make it hard to make a living doing it. On the other hand, I'm not going to repeat the phrase "do what nobody else is willing to do so you get rewards nobody else will get." Being miserable at your job isn't going to do you any good. Mike Rowe had the best advice I've ever heard: Don't pursue your passions, pursue opportunity but bring your passions along. There's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself, just don't count on your enjoyment to provide your livelihood. Find something that you don't mind doing, and people are willing to pay you to do. That's your career. Find something you absolutely love; that's your hobby.


Another thing about your career and the control you have over your life, if you are very good at what you do and what you can do is in demand to the point that more than one person is willing to pay you to do it, your boss has very little control over you. On the other hand, if you're average at what you do and/or lots of people are willing and capable of doing it, your boss has a great deal of control over you. I'm not saying that bosses are inherently bad, but you don't want anyone having control over you. Being capable and in demand keeps the control over that aspect of your life in your hands.


Wife and/or children. This goes back to control. Once you say "I do", your wife is going to have a great deal of control over you. Even cohabitation gives her control, as family courts can view this as common law marriage. Fatherhood is even worse. You have to ask yourself; "what am I gaining from this marriage, this relationship, or fatherhood? Is it worth the risks? Is it worth giving her control over me?"