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  1. #21
    Senior Member stanmsl's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    The anger I feel towards my ex has finally gone, she is single, struggling to raise 2 teenagers in this economic climate, fatter and less attractive then when she gave me the boot. I'd say 80% of my exes are worse off now than if they had given me a chance.

    My anger is of the "lost years" when I was clueless to female nature, trawling clubs in the hope that I'd find "the one". The vast amounts of time and effort I spent on women who's interest was lukewarm as best. On the other side of the coin are the times I could have got laid that night if I'd said the right things but settled for a phone number that went nowhere.

    To use an analogy.....discovering the red pill at 39 was like spending my working life in a thankless, dirty low paid job then winning 100k on the lottery 6 months before retiring.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Gentlemen, indifference is the only cure outside forgiving, as forgiving needs to be requested, and that's not enough, restitution is the minimum price for forgiving.

    Heart thorns can only be pulled by the one that put them there, forgiving without restitution leaves them imbedded with a good chance more thorns will come.

    Forgiveness paid for by restitution pulls the thorns but not the memory.

    Indifference is when you pull the thorns, you pay the price, and treat them like thieves that will only bring you harm. They must be literally scrubbed from your life like a stain, the more hurt, the more scrubbing must be done in your mind, and your soul, casting them away for all eternity by realizing their character is flawed with no efforts to the contrary.

    Every case of rage I read in this thread should have been resolved by true indifference (shake the dust from your robes and wash the mud from your feet).

    I've endured outrage that would have driven anyone with a weak mind to murder, I'm talking cold calculated 1st degree murder. Indifference and the willingness to pay it saved their lives as well as mine.

    I have sociopathic tendencies to do people harm that fuck with me, indifference keeps my maniac in a cage that it can't escape from, it's a jail inside me, instead of me inside a jail.

    There's no reason to live in pain, outrage, and resentment with these simple truths and how to proceed and process them.
    Bundle up, boys, it's gonna be a long cold endless winter.


  3. #23

    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Again I had to process your post, OP. Short answer: yes I have those memories and sometimes I feel rage surge. But those moments lasts only mere seconds at most. Let the rage wave come and go, don't feed it. And it's gone after those seconds.
    But I have had very bad issues with something very similar. We all have done things/ said things in our lives which we very much regret later on. Those things where you really must draw the conclusion: "yeah I was totally wrong then." So have I and I have torn myself apart over those things. Going back to my early childhood. I partially "blame" my parents for that. They were good people and I had the fortune of growing up in a nuclear family with loving parents. But like we all are: they weren't perfect. In retrospect they have developed my conscience "too well." I vividly remember when they corrected me as a child, they rubbed in my "wrongdoing" so hard I still struggle with it to this day. No physical abuse though but on that particular level mentally. It seemed to me that if I did something wrong, I just committed the most evil crime imaginable.
    my rock bottom level in my life was due to this issue. I kept beating myself up over and over over things long gone by. So much so I was on the brink of suicide. One day I was on my way to a friend by train. And I was about to jump in front of an passing train. I swear to everything that's holy: I heard a voice in my head, which wasn't my own "internal voice." Asking with such a profound humble and deep love: "* insert my real name, * can I please decide for you when your time has come? It's not now." Fuck! I'm tearing up right now remembering this. Obviously I didn't jump. But when I was in my train I finally learned to forgive myself for any "wrong doing" I might have done.

  4. #24

    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Gentlemen, indifference is the only cure outside forgiving, as forgiving needs to be requested, and that's not enough, restitution is the minimum price for forgiving.

    Heart thorns can only be pulled by the one that put them there, forgiving without restitution leaves them imbedded with a good chance more thorns will come.

    Forgiveness paid for by restitution pulls the thorns but not the memory.

    Indifference is when you pull the thorns, you pay the price, and treat them like thieves that will only bring you harm. They must be literally scrubbed from your life like a stain, the more hurt, the more scrubbing must be done in your mind, and your soul, casting them away for all eternity by realizing their character is flawed with no efforts to the contrary.

    Every case of rage I read in this thread should have been resolved by true indifference (shake the dust from your robes and wash the mud from your feet).

    I've endured outrage that would have driven anyone with a weak mind to murder, I'm talking cold calculated 1st degree murder. Indifference and the willingness to pay it saved their lives as well as mine.

    I have sociopathic tendencies to do people harm that fuck with me, indifference keeps my maniac in a cage that it can't escape from, it's a jail inside me, instead of me inside a jail.

    There's no reason to live in pain, outrage, and resentment with these simple truths and how to proceed and process them.
    Tower, you are a fucking poet. No other way to describe it!
    You touched on the most ignored and important facet of this “forgiveness” issue. The notion that you can’t have inner peace till you “forgive” is total bullshit. Forgiveness can ONLY occur when there is a meaningful apology AND restitution. Saying you are “sorry” is bullshit unless you provide some sort of restitution. And the fact is, none of these stories by our members are ever going to get any sort of restitution. Even if the offending party wanted to provide restitution, it’s impossible in most cases because the thing they took away is our time. Time we wasted simping for them. Time we wasted trying to replace them after they left. The time it took before we learned that the only solution is MGTOW. We will never get that back. We do, however make up for that in spades by just what you point out. Indifference.

    RPSimp- your story hits home. I spent some time in that dark place too. Ugly…., I’m damn glad you made it out. Good times ahead brother.

  5. #25
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    I’d add on not only an apology, but additional pain and suffering.

  6. #26
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by Survivor64 View Post
    Tower, you are a fucking poet. No other way to describe it!
    You touched on the most ignored and important facet of this “forgiveness” issue. The notion that you can’t have inner peace till you “forgive” is total bullshit. Forgiveness can ONLY occur when there is a meaningful apology AND restitution. Saying you are “sorry” is bullshit unless you provide some sort of restitution. And the fact is, none of these stories by our members are ever going to get any sort of restitution. Even if the offending party wanted to provide restitution, it’s impossible in most cases because the thing they took away is our time. Time we wasted simping for them. Time we wasted trying to replace them after they left. The time it took before we learned that the only solution is MGTOW. We will never get that back. We do, however make up for that in spades by just what you point out. Indifference.

    RPSimp- your story hits home. I spent some time in that dark place too. Ugly…., I’m damn glad you made it out. Good times ahead brother.
    I was recently engaged in a debate on another site about the whole issue of forgiveness around the "Pandemic Amnesty" and tried to make this exact point - unless a sincere apology and offer for restitution is in place, there is no forgiveness. I even referenced some biblical work/analysis to show that was also the case, but I am no scholar or expert on those matters, so was open to being proved wrong.

    Bible scholars came out to "attack" my position but just repeated it...semantics I said. It's about letting go/releasing (ie indifference) so that you don't carry around the negativity.

    "Forgiveness is for you" they say. BS I say - it's only applicable to the other person to relieve them of their guilt for the transgression. That doesn't happen without apology and restitution.

    I clearly pointed out the relatively common knowledge (inside and outside of religious circles) that if "God" doesn't forgive unless you repent of your sins, who are we to challenge/override that? No response.

  7. #27

    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by KRFJames View Post
    I was recently engaged in a debate on another site about the whole issue of forgiveness around the "Pandemic Amnesty" and tried to make this exact point - unless a sincere apology and offer for restitution is in place, there is no forgiveness. I even referenced some biblical work/analysis to show that was also the case, but I am no scholar or expert on those matters, so was open to being proved wrong.

    Bible scholars came out to "attack" my position but just repeated it...semantics I said. It's about letting go/releasing (ie indifference) so that you don't carry around the negativity.

    "Forgiveness is for you" they say. BS I say - it's only applicable to the other person to relieve them of their guilt for the transgression. That doesn't happen without apology and restitution.

    I clearly pointed out the relatively common knowledge (inside and outside of religious circles) that if "God" doesn't forgive unless you repent of your sins, who are we to challenge/override that? No response.
    I think you guys are confusing forgiveness with full absolution. Forgiveness doesn't require repentance on the part of the person. It only means you're choosing to no longer carry the grudge any longer. You're letting it go. For example, if a drunk driver killed your family member, you might understandingly be very hurt and angry at that person for doing something so irresponsible that cost someone their life. However, maybe you get to a point where you would rather not live with all that anger and pain anymore. If so, you could simply choose to no longer carry the bitterness toward that person. You choose to let go. It's for your sake, not the other person's. You could forgive the drunk driver and have more peace, but that doesn't mean the person gets released from prison. It's not an absolution or saying that what the person did was right. You simply choose to let go of the anger and not let it burden you anymore. You could forgive someone without even contacting them. It's only about letting go, for your own sake, not for theirs.

  8. #28
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by KRFJames View Post
    I was recently engaged in a debate on another site about the whole issue of forgiveness around the "Pandemic Amnesty" and tried to make this exact point - unless a sincere apology and offer for restitution is in place, there is no forgiveness. I even referenced some biblical work/analysis to show that was also the case, but I am no scholar or expert on those matters, so was open to being proved wrong.

    Bible scholars came out to "attack" my position but just repeated it...semantics I said. It's about letting go/releasing (ie indifference) so that you don't carry around the negativity.

    "Forgiveness is for you" they say. BS I say - it's only applicable to the other person to relieve them of their guilt for the transgression. That doesn't happen without apology and restitution.

    I clearly pointed out the relatively common knowledge (inside and outside of religious circles) that if "God" doesn't forgive unless you repent of your sins, who are we to challenge/override that? No response.
    No doctrine on earth has been more distorted than the Holy Bible. Plain truths like ^^^that^^^ are glairing and yet the blind refuse to see.

    Tell them Jesus was a MGHOW, that he approves of our lifestyle, encourages bachelorhood, and they'll call you a heretic as they go back to their place of pussy worship calling it a church. They tell men to man-up, doormat, and bend knee to modern vile women and what that cult expects of them (to become spiritual cannon fodder with a false sense of indocrinated worthlessness). A complete 180 out and going the wrong way.

    I'll let God judge me for my alleged heresy, after all, it's him that opened my eyes, spoke to my ears, and in the end lead me here.

    Our lifestyle more so represents sainthood than theirs as they wallow in the mud of false doctrine. There's nothing a cleric, priest, or rabbi can point to that condemns MGTOW in any way shape or form, we heard the calling, and we did what needed to be done. Now we're an army of men that in their eyes destroys their crystal palace of indocrinated lies.

    We're spiritually cleaner and wiser than their best of the best, which isn't saying much.

    We're a wrecking ball to their crystal palace of deception and lies.

    Their days are numbered unlike ours.
    Bundle up, boys, it's gonna be a long cold endless winter.


  9. #29
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I think you guys are confusing forgiveness with full absolution. Forgiveness doesn't require repentance on the part of the person. It only means you're choosing to no longer carry the grudge any longer. You're letting it go. For example, if a drunk driver killed your family member, you might understandingly be very hurt and angry at that person for doing something so irresponsible that cost someone their life. However, maybe you get to a point where you would rather not live with all that anger and pain anymore. If so, you could simply choose to no longer carry the bitterness toward that person. You choose to let go. It's for your sake, not the other person's. You could forgive the drunk driver and have more peace, but that doesn't mean the person gets released from prison. It's not an absolution or saying that what the person did was right. You simply choose to let go of the anger and not let it burden you anymore. You could forgive someone without even contacting them. It's only about letting go, for your own sake, not for theirs.
    Tig your response is identical to what I was fielding and arguing against...I totally agreed it is about letting go and not carrying around bitterness and resentment, as that is toxic. My point was on semantics. The word forgiveness is loaded, and is generally misunderstood in that context. It isn't the same as letting go or simply being indifferent. IT IS about absolution for the other person - otherwise there is no mechanism for that, and the whole concept of forgiveness itself becomes moot.

    There is a place for true forgiveness - and I outlined that - when someone takes genuine responsibility for their actions and offers a sincere apology. You accept that and forgive them for their transgressions, and offer a second chance if applicable. No, it does not mean that they are "off the hook" for restitution, reparations or punishment if it is appropriate. No, it doesn't mean you agree with their actions. BUT they now have the choice to release the guilt THEY carry for their mistakes and start anew.

    Again - semantics. Letting go of the burden for yourself is for you. While forgiving the person should obviously have the same effect on you - it adds in that effect for the other person as well.

  10. #30

    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by KRFJames View Post
    Tig your response is identical to what I was fielding and arguing against...I totally agreed it is about letting go and not carrying around bitterness and resentment, as that is toxic. My point was on semantics. The word forgiveness is loaded, and is generally misunderstood in that context. It isn't the same as letting go or simply being indifferent. IT IS about absolution for the other person - otherwise there is no mechanism for that, and the whole concept of forgiveness itself becomes moot.

    There is a place for true forgiveness - and I outlined that - when someone takes genuine responsibility for their actions and offers a sincere apology. You accept that and forgive them for their transgressions, and offer a second chance if applicable. No, it does not mean that they are "off the hook" for restitution, reparations or punishment if it is appropriate. No, it doesn't mean you agree with their actions. BUT they now have the choice to release the guilt THEY carry for their mistakes and start anew.

    Again - semantics. Letting go of the burden for yourself is for you. While forgiving the person should obviously have the same effect on you - it adds in that effect for the other person as well.
    Then some kind of different vocab is needed because a person could be carrying around a lot of bitterness that he needs to release, but the person who wronged them will never repent. Feminists come to mind. I'd doubt they'll ever admit how atrocious their use of hate speech like "kill all men" is. However, carrying around bitterness toward them only hurts you, and you'll be waiting until the end of time if you're waiting for them to admit guilt.

    So maybe there could be this vocab:
    Forgiveness - full absolution -- The person admits wrong doing, offers restitution, and you accept that.
    Forgiveness -- inner only -- You simply choose to no longer hold bitterness toward someone, regardless if the person changes.

  11. #31
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    Re: Dealing with old memories that bring up rage

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I've been working hard since turning MGTOW to improve my life. I've added another language (French), and I've gotten both my apartment and my car in super clean and organized shape. I've invested in some nice guitars and have improved my playing. Every now and then when I see in the media or wherever that the bullshit dating system is still out there, I usually laugh it off or make fun of it.

    However, recently I ran across the FB page of someone I dated a long time back. This woman really fucked me over and humiliated me. At the time, I vowed revenge. However, as part of my MGTOW growth, I've chosen to move on from the frustrations of the past. I've been busy doing that, and I know that's the right thing to do, both in terms of morality and in terms of life improvement.

    But this one was a flashback to a huge amount of pain. I'd bet many of us have someone in the past who really hozed us over, where the level of hurt was extremely high and hence the thirst for revenge was powerful. I thought I had put this one in the past where it belongs, but fuck. Once those memories flashed before my eyes, all that pain was back. And my mind went wild with visions of what to do for revenge.

    Well, fuck. There's a whole bunch of shit that I've made peace with, and which doesn't bother me anymore. But, obviously, this one was hiding in the grass like a serpent waiting to bite me.

    Have you had this experience? Something reminds you something really painful that happened, where you felt intense injustice, and all that shit comes back? What do you do to make peace and move on? I'm not going to do something stupid like showing up on her doorstep and calling her a cunt. I'm really surprised that a negative memory like this could show up so vivid and with so much pain. I want it put behind me so it can't upset me anymore.
    Haven't used Facebook in maybe a decade. The more we recall the bad experiences, the more they get fixed in our mind.
    I actively suppress bad memories. Past is something to learn from and move forward, not to dwell on. Except of course the good memories, it's always nice to indulge in nostalgia.


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