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  1. #41
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Let me start this post by stating clearly that I believe completely that there are benefits to be gained from PVI. Any comments I make are related to trying to identify what those benefits are, who may benefit from them, and calling out those I genuinely believe to be ill-conceived. This is a search for truth not a witch hunt. Any member, yourself included is welcome to call me out on any statement I make if they so desire and I will give their viewpoints due consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    >With all due respect jagr any posting on a MGTOW site extolling the virtues of sex is bound to grab attention.

    I have to make clear - and we decided this as mods WAY back in the beginning for GYOW that MGTOW and Incel are NOT the same thing. Their way is not our way. MGTOW is a choice- a fork in the road and you decide to go your own way. If one is incel, there never was a choice. (to be clear, Abstinence is not the same as Incel; abstinence is a part of MGTOW- although there will always be debates on the merits vis-a-vis sexual activity).

    ???

    While I agree with everything you say here I am a little confused as to why you felt the need to state it as a reply to my comment. I never mentioned incels nor referenced their way of thinking.

    Neither did I mean to infer that the topic shouldn’t be discussed, I only wished to imply that is an emotive subject for some.

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    I'm happy to have a discussion but it's important to read, follow the logical thread, respond to facts given; not simply deny, change the subject, or throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

    Odd, I thought I was following the logical thread and I assure you I wasn’t arguing just for the sake of it, the views I stated were my genuine, heartfelt opinions. I don’t throw stuff to see what sticks!

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    In order to rebut my claims, you cited an article OTHER than the two I posted. This is a good example of not following the logical thread. You are creating a strawman by citing articles I never did to make the point. Read the NIH study I posted and respond to that. That would be productive discourse at least.

    Mmm. I didn’t realise there was any obligation on my part to only stick to specific articles, but just to clear things up let me explain my reasoning.

    The two articles you linked to were one paragraph abstracts. In order to read the full articles I would have to pay for them. I simply cannot afford to do that. On top of that the particular subject matter here, while of general interest to me has no real bearing on my celibate lifestyle.


    So, this being the case I went looking for other articles that support YOUR case in order to better understand the claims being made. This is the reason for my citing other articles – it was not a fatuous attempt to undermine your viewpoint.

    However, if you would like me to comment on the two paragraphs available, here it is:

    The sample sizes of each were 20 and 46. This is hardly enough for a thorough study, although admittedly it may be enough to indicate certain patterns which could then be verified by larger studies.

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01541871

    Results indicate that both introversion and depression show significant correlations with autoerotic stimulation and arousal, but not with heterosexual activity.

    I don’t debate the veracity of this statement. What I would say is that both introverted and depressed people are less likely to look for “heterosexual activity” and maybe that’s where the correlations lie.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15961213

    This article attests the positive effects of PVI on blood pressure under stress. While I personally believe there are better ways to work on this if it’s a problem nevertheless it is definitely a benefit of full intercourse, assuming that it can be verified by a larger, longer, more conclusive study.

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    The rest of your post is frankly claiming science is not what it claims to be because wimminz & feminism.

    Not at all. I have no problem with science, however I am aware that there are those that would try to use it to their own ends and that is what I was highlighting here, that the stated ‘benefits’ appeared to me to have a very gynocentric leaning.

    I am sceptical by nature. When I hear phrases like “studies show….” I want to know what study, who is carrying it out, how it is being carried out and for what reason. Often studies are carried out by or financed by invested parties and it is my opinion that this can often have a bearing on said study.

    There is a saying that goes something like the investigator will often find what he’s looking for and this applies here. These studies are looking for positive benefits to PVI so that’s what they’re likely to find. They are not debates on the positive versus the negative that may lead to an overall understanding of the full effects of PVI.

    To draw an analogy, I am a smoker. If I made a study that clearly showed smoking had benefits relating to stress relief (and I am not claiming that it does), even if true that would not mean that smoking is good for you overall.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

  2. #42
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post

    >To your point, we should also take note of the negatives of sex, including paid sex/one-night stands, where as just one example, there is a very real psychological impact of two people going their separate ways after being intimate- which can be jarring, certainly more so initially.

    This one I am more skeptical of Jagr. To my knowledge, even though I come from a very conservative Middle Eastern background; I have recently realised that the so called ''impact'' of free love is actually socialised. People get socialised into thinking sex is a big deal; through religious myths etc, and are unable to open themselves up to enjoying sex freely and spontaneously. This is how it should; in the state of nature. Sex should be enjoyed, as much as possible, with as many people as possible. And in the state of nature, there shouldn't be any exclusivity involved.
    Given the neuroplasticity of the mind it's hard to know what part of one's emotional landscape is native and what is put there by society. Having said that, if society does install a false belief in us that there is such a thing as 'chemistry' between a man and woman and you're lucky to find it; and then you find it and realize it can never be realized, it will likely take a toll on you even if the belief in us it offends is artificial. Anyway, I do understand what you're saying; in any case, perhaps the short-term jarring feeling you get from walking away from someone you feel a connection with is the best insurance policy long-term because it absolutely discourages you from pursuing relationships later on.

    On a more general note, many MGTOW don't like to admit the importance of sex, because they often have a tense and complicated relationship with women. I am one of those MGTOW who is ugly and below average; but I can for sure say that sex and exercise are important; and I would add on top of this list gainful and intellectually stimulating employment.
    Completely agree. We don't want to be dependent on women and yet acknowledging there may be benefits of sex seems to put them in the driver's seat. I would imagine the notion of escorts is anathema to some because now you have to outright pay them too! But in my view, women aren't in the driver's seat, Nature is; and there is no defeating it so what are the best options.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).
    *If you're on Twitter, follow me: MGTOW_Jagr

  3. #43
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Let me start this post by stating clearly that I believe completely that there are benefits to be gained from PVI. Any comments I make are related to trying to identify what those benefits are, who may benefit from them, and calling out those I genuinely believe to be ill-conceived. This is a search for truth not a witch hunt. Any member, yourself included is welcome to call me out on any statement I make if they so desire and I will give their viewpoints due consideration.




    ???

    While I agree with everything you say here I am a little confused as to why you felt the need to state it as a reply to my comment. I never mentioned incels nor referenced their way of thinking.

    Neither did I mean to infer that the topic shouldn’t be discussed, I only wished to imply that is an emotive subject for some.


    Odd, I thought I was following the logical thread and I assure you I wasn’t arguing just for the sake of it, the views I stated were my genuine, heartfelt opinions. I don’t throw stuff to see what sticks!


    Mmm. I didn’t realise there was any obligation on my part to only stick to specific articles, but just to clear things up let me explain my reasoning.

    The two articles you linked to were one paragraph abstracts. In order to read the full articles I would have to pay for them. I simply cannot afford to do that. On top of that the particular subject matter here, while of general interest to me has no real bearing on my celibate lifestyle.


    So, this being the case I went looking for other articles that support YOUR case in order to better understand the claims being made. This is the reason for my citing other articles – it was not a fatuous attempt to undermine your viewpoint.

    However, if you would like me to comment on the two paragraphs available, here it is:

    The sample sizes of each were 20 and 46. This is hardly enough for a thorough study, although admittedly it may be enough to indicate certain patterns which could then be verified by larger studies.

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01541871


    I don’t debate the veracity of this statement. What I would say is that both introverted and depressed people are less likely to look for “heterosexual activity” and maybe that’s where the correlations lie.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15961213

    This article attests the positive effects of PVI on blood pressure under stress. While I personally believe there are better ways to work on this if it’s a problem nevertheless it is definitely a benefit of full intercourse, assuming that it can be verified by a larger, longer, more conclusive study.




    Not at all. I have no problem with science, however I am aware that there are those that would try to use it to their own ends and that is what I was highlighting here, that the stated ‘benefits’ appeared to me to have a very gynocentric leaning.

    I am sceptical by nature. When I hear phrases like “studies show….” I want to know what study, who is carrying it out, how it is being carried out and for what reason. Often studies are carried out by or financed by invested parties and it is my opinion that this can often have a bearing on said study.

    There is a saying that goes something like the investigator will often find what he’s looking for and this applies here. These studies are looking for positive benefits to PVI so that’s what they’re likely to find. They are not debates on the positive versus the negative that may lead to an overall understanding of the full effects of PVI.

    To draw an analogy, I am a smoker. If I made a study that clearly showed smoking had benefits relating to stress relief (and I am not claiming that it does), even if true that would not mean that smoking is good for you overall.
    Nature's not only in the driver's seat but owns the whole damn road!

    Natural law is the mortar that cements the wall together! It's solid, it's unrelenting, and it's unforgiving!

    It seems today's society is lethargic on wits and intelligence as evidence points to so many people willing to throw themselves over a cliff while denying the law called gravity, then hit the sidewalk wondering why their lives are a complete mess!
    MGTOW, defined:

    A place and time (where and when) the road to modern man's perdition ends abruptly and permanently.

  4. #44

    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Some of those points describe guys in sexless marriages.

    My dad used to host large dinners every Christmas eve. Anyone and everyone was invited. There was at least 25 people at the dinner. Every year was the same. Guys who were young were full of life talking about how they were going to conquer the world. The older married guys sat in the corner of the room quietly nursing a beer. The married guys looked dead and defeated inside.

    It might explain why Freudian psychologist claim you need a great sex life to be mentally healthy.

  5. #45

    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatoshadow2 View Post
    What's your advice for dealing with sexual urges, when you are younger? Trying my best to fight the urge for sex, its hard, some days are easier, other days not so much.
    Exercise, fasting.....

    But really, ask yourself, why are you denying a natural need? Would you deny your need for air, water, food, or sunlight?
    An escort is a woman you occasionally financially support only when she has sex with you.

    A date is a woman you occasionally financially support in the hope she will have sex with you.

    A wife is a woman you constantly financially support even when she is not having sex with you.

    An ex-wife is a woman you constantly financially support with alimony so she can have sex......with someone else.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Completely agree. We don't want to be dependent on women and yet acknowledging there may be benefits of sex seems to put them in the driver's seat. I would imagine the notion of escorts is anathema to some because now you have to outright pay them too! But in my view, women aren't in the driver's seat, Nature is; and there is no defeating it so what are the best options.
    The thing about MGTOW, and this is unfortunately true of many many MGTOW, is that they have a GOD COMPLEX. They think they can find an answer for everything, can re-engineer anything, even nature and natural sexual desires themselves. But what they are really doing is short-circuiting their anxieties about not knowing something. And there is always something that any one given person doesn't know.

    Some have called this 'coping'. I don't think this word is accurate; we need to find a new word to explain this phenomena.

    One other thing which kind of makes my blood boil is this insistence on 'science' and 'statistics', otherwise you cannot make an argument. I mean how many studies, proofs, journals do you need to read to tell you that sex is beneficial, or exercise and sleep is important?
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself; you will overcome it!

  7. #47
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    There is no doubt that sex is very beneficial in physical, mental, existential and social ways. However, it really comes down to the cost you are prepared to pay for said benefits. There was a time when I would spend my weekends chasing tail, and was in regular relationships. I was prepared to pay the cost. But nowadays I am not. The irony is that nowadays I have more offers now that I'm no longer looking.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  8. #48

    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    I really like all the advice, everyone has given here. It's been really hard for me having a high sex drive and being young, its hard not to think about sex with women I find attractive. Now having Snapchat with them and seeing images of them, makes it even more hard. Knowing all the risks, it has to my life being involved with a woman.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Hmmm... it's a very interesting topic. How sex plays a role in the life of a MGTOW. As a MGTOW monk, I suppose my contribution here would have a limited value. Or perhaps not. I've been living under the auspices of monkdom since my divorce. Even in a couple of situations where sex was possible, I evaded the opportunity. I suppose the most compelling reason was that in full honesty I didn't think sex would be desirable for me, and thus, not for her. To me, there was really no point in it.

    Draining the pipes a couple times per week indeed keeps the physical pressure buildup at bay. But, it's been said that intimacy is a sort of need, or perhaps it's better described as something as humans we all crave. We don't need internet access and all-wheel-drive either... but we certainly seem to crave it.

    I am not actually sure that I miss the allure of being with a woman in a physical, romantic sense. I can visualize what it might be like, and add on a layer of memories about sights, smells, sensations and emotional feelings. I have distant memory of the "joy" of being intimate with a female - I can even recall such encounters with the ex wife at the beginning of the marriage.

    But the question is: Can I have, or do I even WANT to have that kind of vulnerability with a woman again? Or, can I get some sexual release WITHOUT being exceedingly vulnerable?

    The best part of sexual monkdom is that the immediate yearning for sex goes away. Now, whether that deep soul-level yearning for a pair-bond goes away, that's another matter.

    The question remains: If I REALLY wanted sex to be part of my life, and really needed it badly, wouldn't I already be making that happen? When I felt I did need sex, I made it happen regularly. Now, it's not happening at all. Perhaps.... I don't need it anymore?
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  10. #50
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoppes#9 View Post
    Oh as far as paying for sex... truth is if you ever have been married you did pay for it...!
    Oh yes, in my case it was 2 3/4 years of marriage, I lost 16.5k during the marriage because of her spending and debts with on average having sex once a month, makes it 500 per session and I'm not even through the divorce yet.

    I have no experience with prostitutes but I think for 500 quid you can get a decent one?

  11. #51

    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiaslayer View Post
    I have no experience with prostitutes but I think for 500 quid you can get a decent one?
    Check out adultwork.com would be my advice. Not actually tried yet, have a friend who has and speaks highly of it. There's plenty of very attractive ones on there for about 300 for two hours. Most of things a man would want her to do are included in the price.

    Personally I'm dissapointed that most don't offer the service of dressing like a donkey and discussing politics mid-coitus, but maybe I'm unusual.

  12. #52

    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiaslayer View Post
    Oh yes, in my case it was 2 3/4 years of marriage, I lost 16.5k during the marriage because of her spending and debts with on average having sex once a month, makes it 500 per session and I'm not even through the divorce yet.

    I have no experience with prostitutes but I think for 500 quid you can get a decent one?
    Don Johnson once said that there are four phases in an actor's career.

    Phase one:

    He was a new, young actor. His agent finds a good role for Don to play and calls up a casting director.

    Agent says: "I have this new, young actor you should cast for this role. His name is Don Johnson."
    Casting director: ""Don Johnson? Who the hell is Don Johnson?"

    Phase two:

    Actor is now established after a couple of movies, maybe a hit TV show.

    Casting director calls his agent and says:
    "We've got a big juicy role in our next movie. We need just the right guy. Get me Don Johnson."

    Phase three:

    Some years go by, and the actor is getting a little older.Casting director calls his agent:
    "I need somebody who can really nail down this character.
    What this role needs is somebody like a young Don Johnson."

    Phase four:

    Decades go by. Actor is still getting roles, but...

    Agent calls young, novice casting director:
    "Yeah, I heard your looking for actors for that part. Will you consider Don Johnson?"

    Casting Director:
    "Don Johnson? Who
    the hell is Don Johnson?"

    Why do I tell you this story? Because it is similar to the 3 phases of most men's marriages with women.

    Paying for a date's meals and entertainment in the hope she will have sex with you.


    Paying for a wife's basic and luxury needs even when she is not having sex with you.


    Paying for ex-wife's basic and luxury needs (alimony) so she can have sex...with someone else.
    An escort is a woman you occasionally financially support only when she has sex with you.

    A date is a woman you occasionally financially support in the hope she will have sex with you.

    A wife is a woman you constantly financially support even when she is not having sex with you.

    An ex-wife is a woman you constantly financially support with alimony so she can have sex......with someone else.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19 One Month In- The Effect of No Sex

    It seems to me that women are impacted just as much as men when it comes to these lock downs. I would argue it may be more difficult for females because they are always used to having on demand access of sex whenever they desire.

    What I do wonder though is what will the implications be for relationships and sexuality between men and women in a few months from now when interactions are more normalized.

    It is often said that to have strong body you need mental health. But to have mental health do you not need to release physical urges as well? And then there is the intimacy that helps soothe the mental aspects which often enhances the mechanical release of sex for men.


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