View Poll Results: Pro or No, or Choice?

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28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    1 3.57%
  • No

    14 50.00%
  • It's their body, let them have free will.

    13 46.43%
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  1. #21
    Senior Member BrotherJ's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Whoa! Who voted "yes?" Was that an accident? I think that vote requires some explanation!
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  2. #22
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    I'm surprised that I've been the only one so far. I'm glad I'm circumcised. It seems that when some people have a lot of time on their hands (this is not directed at anyone on these forums -- I'm talking about the loud, whiny news-makers who carry anti-circumcision signs, etc.), possess no real problems, take all of their blessings for granted, and get a bit bored, they don't default to being more productive, creative or positive. They default to looking for minor things to complain about.

    It's kinda sad, in terms of human nature. It makes more sense regarding women, who've been trained to whine, but it confuses me when it comes to the men, who are creators and inventors, and are equipped to deal with What Is, and to move on without fuss.

    I just hope that men who complain loudly about being circumcised, and get all sorts of public attention, remember to thank their poor parents for everything they did right.


  3. #23
    Senior Member BrotherJ's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Many men don't see their own mutilation as favourably as you do, especially MGTOW's. I didn't expect to see any "yes" votes on this one. Some men feel violated and betrayed when they first realise that part of their naturally occurring genitals were sliced off at birth for no medical benefit and that such barbaric procedures are considered normal. I do not appreciate the fact that my body and my life's experience were considered expendable even when I was an infant. I have no idea how sexual pleasure would feel to a normal, complete male body. I never will. I was never consulted. I don't matter. That's why I can't ever support the circumcision of an infant.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    I understand what you mean, and your explanations are awesome and perfectly valid, but this isn't commonly agreed upon as a given:

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherJ View Post
    ...for no medical benefit
    Without the hygienic considerations, parents wouldn't agree to have it done -- there's no other motive. Whether they're right or wrong is a separate matter, but the intention is not to mutilate or be "barbaric."

  5. #25
    Senior Member VLazarusC's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I understand what you mean, and your explanations are awesome and perfectly valid, but this isn't commonly agreed upon as a given:



    Without the hygienic considerations, parents wouldn't agree to have it done -- there's no other motive. Whether they're right or wrong is a separate matter, but the intention is not to mutilate or be "barbaric."
    Currently in USA, a country that has no religious conviction to get circumcised (Jews and Muslims), stands at 54% of the total males being circumcised. You have to see the thing that it's not another thing to whine about, it's about parents mostly taking the decision, a decision that's a clear breach of human rights and immoral to not leave your kid the choice whether he wants the foreskin cut off or not.
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  6. #26
    Member ProdigalSon's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Thankfully, circumcision doesn't happen (for the most part) here in the United Kingdom.

    If it did, I'd like to think that the person to whom this... "procedure" was being performed on would be of an age where they could make up their OWN mind as to whether or not if was something they wished to have it done.

  7. #27
    Senior Member BrotherJ's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Allow me to reiterate one of my previous posts in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherJ View Post
    It's quite clear that circumcision provides no real medical advantage. If you believe that the human body was formed by natural selection, then you must either believe that foreskin is advantageous or that nature somehow got it wrong in this one case. It seems a bit arrogant and silly to claim a medical benefit, doesn't it?
    If the hygienic concerns were real and significant, then natural selection would have preferred boys with shorter foreskin or none at all. There is also the argument that the vagina is nature's Petri dish. Women get yeast infections into adulthood. The fold of the foreskin around the glans is still external to the body and is much easier to clean, so there is no way that an uncircumcised penis could be less sanitary than a vagina.

    As to their intentions, the barbaric part is the fact that parents are willing to cut into the flesh of their newborn baby boys without doing their homework first. Aren't they shirking their responsibilities as parents by failing to question societal norms? The Spartans of ancient Greece regularly left baby boys out in the wild to die if they were considered weak. Does cultural relativism excuse their murderous behaviour or only explain their reasons for being murderous?
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Octavian's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    So mutilation is OK as long as you're not going to use that body part to begin with? This is completely immoral, I genuinely hope you can see that.

    Obviously males should be given a choice, and that choice should be made when they're an adult so we're sure they're informed about their decision and able to consent to the procedure. How this isn't universally obvious is completely beyond me.
    It's not a mystery to me.

    Women have an internal , powerful dislike of males and all expressions of male power, of which our genitalia is a symbol thereof. So long as our society is run for the benefit and under the direction of women, the likelihood of men being "given a choice" in ANY matter is zero.It's not a matter of whether I think it's moral or not for men to have a choice, because it ain't gonna happen.

    Which leads me to the follow on point. Whether you have foreskin or not, having sex with a woman today is a calculated risk. Given that those of us who were circumcised cant exactly go back in time and change it, and the outcome anyway is a more sensitive dick, an uncircumcised cock has the practical benefit of a 1000 horsepower Corvette in Los Angeles rush hour traffic. You're just as fucked as the guy next to you, no matter what kind of hardware youre driving.

    The rules fixed in place by society governing the transfer of wealth from male to female don't change for any man. Even billionaires can't buy their way out of the Pussy Tax. Given that a woman can just ruin a man via pure accusation alone, if you're fucking girls regularly enough to worry about your foreskin , you're asking for a ride on the pain train.

    Whether your dick is big, small, cut, uncut, is irrelevant.Jettison those female-centric social mandates which say your importance and identity as a man is wrapped up in your dick -as women are the ultimate benefactors of the male genitalia. So, what is ?

    Your will to prosoper despite society's wish that you be yoked to some cunt for the rest of your days .

  9. #29
    Senior Member bob's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
    It wasn't that long ago that heart surgery was done on infants with no anesthesia.
    1. Prove it
    2. So What?
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  10. #30
    Senior Member bob's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Whether they're right or wrong is a separate matter, but the intention is not to mutilate or be "barbaric."
    Cutting on the most sensitive spot on a baby without anesthetic is barbaric. Youtube has videos of this - the babies scream their heads off.
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  11. #31

    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Just my two cents- I was diagnosed with phimosis as a kid, and hell, it was obvious even to me that something is wrong, no doctor required. But, I was in based transformation Poland, with evil communist medicine still strongly entrenched. So what did the good doc do? Nope, the idea of cutting a part of my penis off never came up. He told my parents to stretch that motherfucker, for example during a bath. Soon I just did it myself. And guess what? No phimosis in just a couple of months.

    Now just imagine what would happen if somebody in good old prude America touched their sons dick in order to help the foreskin stretch. No wonder people prefer to just chop it off.

  12. #32
    Senior Member BrotherJ's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Octavian: And what about the pleasures of masturbation for the younger crowd? And what about gay men? The fact that women can't be trusted doesn't sink the whole argument.
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  13. #33

    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Whether you're for or against it in general (and there's no really GOOD reason to be for it, IMO) it doesn't really matter, people have the basic human right to be free from harm by others, including their legal guardians, removing the boys chance to say yes or no is completely and totally immoral and people protesting that are doing many millions of unborn children a great service.

    You sound an awful lot like a troll :/

  14. #34
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    You sound an awful lot like a troll :/
    That's nearly a feminist-level "catchall" response if someone merely happens to disagree with you. There's room for everyone's opinion, and resorting to fake troll-shaming isn't really an argument. Believe it or not, some of us enjoy having healthy and brain-stimulating debates with each other, knowing that we don't have to worry about anyone taking it personally instead of in context. We're men, and men give each other shit almost as a sign of affection -- so arguing about a particular subject to learn about others' perspectives certainly isn't out of order.

    To suggest that circumcision is a feminist-propagated thing is a bit off the mark, I think...I'm no student of medical history, but it seems to me that Western circumcision (at least) was started at a time when the only doctors were men. I say again that the intentions never seem to be "barbaric" -- parents think they're helping by allowing the procedure to occur. Whether or not they actually are, and I understand that many here maintain that they're not, at least that's where it starts.

    So I'm interested in moving on to the end result of...what would you call it? Widespread awareness of this "immorality"?...that the anti-circumcision fellas are hoping for by complaining about it. What would be the best outcome of pointing out the negatives of circumcision? I'm curious -- this isn't sarcasm. I'm interested in the optimistic side of the argument, i.e. what the aim is.

  15. #35

    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    There are times when people genuinely sound like trolls and you sound like a troll, it's not to shut you down or stifle debate, there should be no debate over whether it's OK to mutilate an infant who is completely unable to protect themselves and completely unable to consent to the act.

    You start waffling on about how other things of the parents should be considered as if that's a factor somehow in this!

    It's deeply immoral and wrong it doesn't matter the history of the procedure or the reasons, it's a SEVERE breach of basic human rights, I hope someone cuts off your arm in the middle of the night without your consent, then we can all meet back here tomorrow and talk about how we're all allowed opinions on if that was morally acceptable or not.

    It's unbelievable people are this barbaric in the 21st century, it's beyond words.

  16. #36
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    There are times when people genuinely sound like trolls and you sound like a troll
    No, I don't. Again, sometimes people will disagree with you. It's a mere thing. And it might behoove you to get used to it, if you genuinely want to go your own way. Friendly disagreements are possible -- they're the domain of the intelligent. That's why most men on here don't get into flame wars or whatever the kiddie lingo is for it this year.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    There should be no debate over whether it's OK to mutilate an infant who is completely unable to protect themselves and completely unable to consent to the act.
    In your opinion. And yet, it still occurs, and debates still take place. So why not make them productive instead of ad hominem?


    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    You start waffling on about...
    There's been no waffling here. My statements are pretty direct and easy to understand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    I hope someone cuts off your arm in the middle of the night without your consent,
    Now who's acting like a troll?

  17. #37
    Super Moderator sirreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    The moderators have seen fit to ALLOW discussion of VIOLENCE against INFANTS as if that violence is somehow justified, or ever could be justified. While the discussion of other types of violence against other people is some how now allowed, it's CENSORED. we're not allowed an opinion on if someone should have their arm cut off while they sleep and cannot consent or defend themself, but it's perfectly acceptable to discuss the opinions of violence against infants who cannot consent or defend themself.

    Basically the moderators condone violence against infants through use of dealing out infractions to those who suggest other types of violence should also be a matter of opinion, in other words certain types of violence are allowed as long as it suits their personal beliefs. I can't possibly support a community which allows or tolerates this, for some of the good friends I've enjoyed conversing with here you can find me on the usual MGTOW or MRA forums, I always post as "Frosty".

    Good day gentlemen.
    I imagine you got the infraction because you posted violent content against another user, you cant wish for violence (or "theoretical violence") against someone else without repercussions. The forum is public, the discussion is allowed to have pro and con discussions, that's what this place is about, not an echo chamber, and not one where you can freely tell users that you hope their arm gets cut off (even theoretically), any forum that welcome's that speech is likely to go down in a blaze of bullshit.

    A simple check of the terms of use on this site would have informed you what you can and cannot post, and had this been framed in a different way instead of directing it at a user would have been kosher.
    Last edited by sirreaper; May 22, 2014 at 2:10 PM.
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  18. #38
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Gentlemen, I believe this thread has gone far enough.

    We can decry circumcision, and declare that infant circumcision is a barbarism - as all but one of us have done in our votes. But, in this gynocentric, matriarchal society, it really is all up to the mother; and as for my own lost foreskin, I can't mourn what I never knew.

    But we've gotten beyond civil discourse here. Time to shut it down.

    Thread closed.
    Last edited by BeijaFlor; May 22, 2014 at 3:17 PM.
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  19. #39
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: Circumcision and My Thoughts

    Guys,


    We are better than this. GYOW is about mutual respect. It's not respectful to belittle people's grievances about a sensitive, charged topic like this and label them 'complainers'. Neither is it respectful to verbally attack other members and moderators. Let's think a little more before we post and remember we're dealing with real people and not simply usernames and icons.


    Everyone has the general idea. Let's move on.


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