Thread: Can a dead nation be alive?

Originally Posted by bazalgette

You seem to forget. MGTOWs don't have children.
No marriage, no cohabitaion no insemination.

Forget? How could I possibly forget? I’m going to get a bit pedantic with this statement though for the benefit of lurkers – I’m sure that you are aware of this yourself.

Many MGTOW have children, many have been married, some (I assume a small number) are still married and still cohabiting because they are financially trapped. This is possible because they became MGTOW after the fact.

It’s not that MGTOW don’t have children, it’s that we won’t have any more.

That's why I emphasized that this is a hypothetical scenario which, you sir, seem not to understand

Oh there’s a lot in this thread I’m having difficulty understanding, but I can assure you that the hypothetical scenario is not one of them.

Had I have a son, I would speak from mgtow unaware standpoint. I would be bluepilled.

O.K. we’ll put this one down to a misunderstanding over the intent of the writer being misinterpreted by the reader. It happens, more often than you might think. To explain my comment what you originally stated was:

Had I have a kid, YES I would shape him . I wouldn't show him redpill/mgtow

You see, from my perspective when I read this you didn’t explain in your hypothetical that you would be unaware of MGTOW, I therefore took this as meaning this is your current opinion with all the knowledge you currently have.


As for some of your other points, yes I am confused. I am confused at your many seeming contradictions.

Christian faith is not contrary to mgtow.

I ended up here because I couldn't reconcile my principles with the reality.

But does your faith not guide your principles? If so does that not mean your faith is contrary to MGTOW.

It is my understanding that all Christian religions heavily encourage both marriage and procreation. This is very definitely contrary to MGTOW.

By the way this should not be interpreted as an attack on your faith. You brought it up otherwise I wouldn’t even mention it.

I say this almost in every comment - I won't ever have a relationship because of what I know

Yet, in the very same post you say:

I still want to get married but I see marriage in a very different light.

That's why it's very unlikely I will get ever married.

and again:

To sum up - its VERY unlikely for me to get married.

Well, which is it? Not ever or not very unlikely? You can’t have it both ways. Very unlikely is still possibly. You are not resolute in your convictions.

Do you see how this appears as being somewhat undecided? Here’s the thing about being MGTOW, you either are or you aren’t. There is no such thing as 99% MGTOW. Although you can be 99% of the way there, it’s still not being MGTOW.

And, since you mentioned your intro, from that thread:

AWALT is 100% true

>90% of women are unworthy of marriage

So again, which is it 100% or >90%? Also if >90% are unworthy of marriage does that mean ~10% are worthy. But to be fair you said > 90% so let’s split the difference and say 5%, that’s 1 in 20. That’s a LOT of women you claim at least might be worthy of marriage.

To a MGTOW no woman is worth marrying.

This is not an attack on you, merely an explanation of where I see you to be at. You’re almost there but not quite and I applaud the progress you have already made. Just a little further.

As the population continues to dwindle South Korea will become like Singapore, Dubai and other countries that become home to guest workers and migrants. Something which I am sure would suit the The Powers that Be just fine. There will also be an influx of young men from countries like India chasing the young South Korean women.

IMO one can't expect a 6-year old child to engage in meaningful critical thinking in order to come to a decision on a path forward on any given subject beyond "which flavor ice cream do I want now". So I think there'll be some teaching/indoctrination going on to keep the kid from, for instance, playing in traffic. A parent can always say, "OK, when you're older, you can change your mind, do what you want, but for now, do this, it will help you stay alive until that future point."

Hi Jackoff. No I don't take it as an attack. It's not personal.
Gatekeeping is crucial to avoid corruption. Lack of it is the reason why modern church is so rotten.
Should I get banned next day I'd be fine with the decision.

Sorry for comming off snarky in my last comment. I was a bit infuriated as I am very clear about who I am in every post/comment I make.
I state my motivations upfront, I hide nothing. I was seriously surprised the last segment was interpreted in such a way.

Maybe I'm not as sharp as I thought I am. If you think about it it's a perfect example of a blindspot.
You probably had ppl who made such drastic turns in their mindset that it's common for you to notice those things.
I've never met those people so I saw nothing wrong in my post.

I thought the context/intent could be infered from who I am. My soul aches when I read/write statements that stupidly need clarifications - "I think She Hulk sucks.. bbut I am black woman who watched all the show and vote democrat", "I think [simple statement], but [paragraph of explaination]."

This kills the flow.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

But does your faith not guide your principles?

It's exactly because my faith guides my principles.
There are two important concepts: sanctum and life.

Sanctum is like dressing to the opera. You don't go in naked or in streetwear.
You don't marry a modern woman.

Life - to have your marriage fail is to effectively kill your children. A failed marriage does not always start with a divorce. It's also a wife that tortures her husband, who cheated on him. It's the husband that stays for the sake of children.
It's foolish to think that children don't see past through the facade. They are scarred for life and set up for failure.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

It is my understanding that all Christian religions heavily encourage both marriage and procreation. This is very definitely contrary to MGTOW.

"both marriage and procreation" - It means - you get married and you have children or your marriage is not valid.
Outside of marriage it is a grave sin to have intercourse. Past-divorce (as per our faith divorce doesn't exist, only annullment) it is a grave sin to have intercourse.
You are supposed to have only one try. Because with each failed try you fail more and pollute/scar people who had no previus scars.

How selfish is for a single mother or carousel rider to want a marriage with a "good guy"?


there are three paths you can take (or so I've been taught): marrriage, priesthood and celibacy. All of those are equally valid paths.
That's what amuses me the most - they don't get to be morally righteous - my way is just as valid.
Marriage? I really don't remember when the last sermon touched the subject of getting married.
Maybe half a year ago?

We had this one tradcuck half a year ago who made the entire point of sermon how it's men's fault and irresponsibility
that marriage rates are going down and is so many divorces. Never had I have such a good laugh afterwards.

Tbh, rarely there are people who urge us to get married. "we need priests" - they say. "more children" - to the couple who just
baptized their children.

There is more sermons about divorces and how people stray from God than urging to get married.
It may be because besides me and 10 other people my age, the rest is very old. And i've been in ~20-30 churches all over my country.
Eevery one looks the same. 50% are granny-old women. 40% are men from 30-??? :-D.

Please read this comment by gtrFreak - he is spot-on regarding current state.

So again, which is it 100% or >90%?

A valid criticism.

I wrote it for the sake of brieffness. That's why just ">90%". Further down you'll notice I've also said "AWALT is 100% true".
It even looks like a slight contradiction, now when i think about it.

I meant that looking for unicorn is as futile as looking for Holy Grail.
Should I commit my whole life, all of my resources towards finding what should be a standard?

Maybe it's easier if I draw paralels to Luna . There were many investors b4 but now
no one is going to invest in something so broken.
Even more so - paying full/old price for something worth zero would be madness.

It is very unlikely for me to get married

Very unlikely - it's not I'm giving myself a leeway. Very unlikely is exactly what I mean.
Hammerhand has this mantra:

Have the laws changed?
Have the laws been stricken?
Have women changed?

All of those would have to be ticked off. How likely is that?
Notice - South Koreans no longer can have traditional marriages. Law prevents that.
Same goes for my country. Law effectively prevents me from exercising previously
agreed upon boundaries.

To a MGTOW no woman is worth marrying.

You mistake legal marriage with just a ceremony.
It is our "dogma" that marriage should not be a three sided contract.

That's what I can agree on - no woman is worth a contract with a state.
When I talk about marriage I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about religious ceremony.

And I have a very clear idea about what woman would be worth such an oath. This woman is dead, she is extinct.
She is no longer there or lives in some village off the beaten track no one even knows about.
It is the holy grail that is too much hassle to seek.

Many MGTOW have children, many have been married, some (I assume a small number) are still married and still cohabiting because they are financially trapped. This is possible because they became MGTOW after the fact.

Well, I've said that in my answer. What Hammerhand has is a luxury. Most MGTOW's either are alienated or their children are already adult and it's too late.

So it's not really possible to raise your kid in RP. [ i think it's an interesting point to make]

Originally Posted by Kryptic

As the population continues to dwindle South Korea will become like Singapore, Dubai and other countries that become home to guest workers and migrants. Something which I am sure would suit the The Powers that Be just fine. There will also be an influx of young men from countries like India chasing the young South Korean women.

But you see, there is a catch. Progressives are proud of their diversity. Asian countries are proud of their unity.
You won't find more racist people than in asian countries.

South Korea would rather die than accept migrants en masse.
Also there is a good case to be made that importing workers doesn't work out long-term.
Isn't that why suddenly USA dropped Roe v Wade and now wants to push for child support from birth?
More babytrapping = more babies.

Originally Posted by bazalgette

Hi Jackoff. No I don't take it as an attack.

Thank you for understanding this.

Sorry for comming off snarky in my last comment.

TBH I didn’t even see it as snarky, just an honest standpoint, so no need for an apology, but thank you anyway.

"both marriage and procreation" - It means - you get married and you have children or your marriage is not valid.
Outside of marriage it is a grave sin to have intercourse. Past-divorce (as per our faith divorce doesn't exist, only annullment) it is a grave sin to have intercourse.

Indeed, procreation but only within marriage. I should have made this clear, but procreation nonetheless.

Your point about advocating celibacy as a valid path though is an interesting workaround. Fair point well made.

Very unlikely - it's not I'm giving myself a leeway. Very unlikely is exactly what I mean.
Hammerhand has this mantra:

Have the laws changed?
Have the laws been stricken?
Have women changed?

All of those would have to be ticked off. How likely is that?

O.K. I get you now. Since these are IMO impossible, certainly in our lifetimes, then marriage for you is also impossible. Thanks for the clarification.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

To a MGTOW no woman is worth marrying.

Originally Posted by bazalgette

You mistake legal marriage with just a ceremony.
It is our "dogma" that marriage should not be a three sided contract.

That's what I can agree on - no woman is worth a contract with a state.
When I talk about marriage I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about religious ceremony.

No, no mistake. I used the word marriage because that was your word. To a MGTOW no woman is worth cohabiting with either which would include religious ceremony even if not recognised as marriage by the state, therefore no contract with the state.

A bit of a moot point though since the state sees cohabitation as legal marriage whether there’s a ceremony (civil or religious) or not. There may be somewhere on the planet where this is not the case, but I’m unaware of it.

So it's not really possible to raise your kid in RP. [ i think it's an interesting point to make]

Interesting I agree, and for the most part you’re probably right but there are cases where the male gets sole custody. However, he would also have to be red-pill which makes the whole scenario very unlikely indeed, but not impossible.


However, I take back my comments about your MGTOW status. I hope you understand why I doubted you.

And my apologies.

Originally Posted by fpm

IMO one can't expect a 6-year old child to engage in meaningful critical thinking in order to come to a decision on a path forward on any given subject beyond "which flavor ice cream do I want now". So I think there'll be some teaching/indoctrination going on to keep the kid from, for instance, playing in traffic. A parent can always say, "OK, when you're older, you can change your mind, do what you want, but for now, do this, it will help you stay alive until that future point."

True, but that doesn't mean you can't begin the process. To take your example of playing in the traffic you can say:

“Don’t do that it’s bold” or “Do that again and I’ll punish you” or something else that teaches the child little.

Alternatively you can explain why it’s dangerous and shouldn’t be done. It might be too much to expect the child to understand this and so you may have to include a punishment threat with it, but over time it would be hoped that the child would begin to think about the consequences of their actions before they act.

Once a civilization get to the point where women don't need men, this will always happens

1. The women on mass will reject men due to run away hypergamy, make men living hell(married, single, society norms, etc) and will stop reproduce

2. after a few generations the men will eventually wake up on mass to realize women ain't worth it, disengage and will stop trying reproduce

3. Not enough people fucking and having kids

4. Nation of old asses

5. Society will Either get conquered, or they simply die out

It's nature way of limiting human populations

Originally Posted by bazalgette

But you see, there is a catch. Progressives are proud of their diversity. Asian countries are proud of their unity.
You won't find more racist people than in asian countries.

South Korea would rather die than accept migrants en masse.
Also there is a good case to be made that importing workers doesn't work out long-term.
Isn't that why suddenly USA dropped Roe v Wade and now wants to push for child support from birth?
More babytrapping = more babies.

I think South Korean women are open to foreigners. I know in Japan they are very resistant to migration even though their reproduction levels are low. But Asian countries aren't completely homogeneous in terms of their cultures and outlook.

I agree about importing workers. It's a Ponzi scheme. Bring in more workers to fill gaps in the workforce only for those workers to then need things like housing and other items as well as medical care etc and so then you need more workers to accommodate all of the workers you just brought in!

And why? Because business no longer thinks it has to train people. They want Govt to do it all for them.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Almost everything you say in this quote is contrary to MGTOW.

So, let me get this straight. You wouldn’t tell your son about the red-pill or MGTOW yet you come to a website the sole purpose of which is to get word of these things out? This begs the question:

WHY ARE YOU HERE?

You would also advocate marriage to him, albeit with certain provisions? This tells me that should you believe that you have found such a unicorn for yourself that you would contemplate marriage also.

Sir, you are NOT MGTOW. Post reported. A pity because you debate well.

Hi Jackoff,

I appreciate you challenging what you see. You and bazalgette have been having an extended and very detailed discussion and it may not be necessary for me to drill down to travel the twists and turns of each of your thinkings here across all of your messages (assuming I could correctly do so) in order to show each of you what I have to say in response to your Report.

Hi bazalgette,

In this thread you refer to your Intro where you had stated you still want to get married, although unlikely, and then here you seem to defend yourself to Jackoff's challenge by saying that because you had said that to us up front, it should not be a disqualifier now?

FWIW, please know that whether or not we missed something a member said earlier, that does not immunize a member from moderation.

You also have said recently that you are similar to Chronic Undead, someone whom you identify as not MGTOW. Similar does not mean identical, I get that, but keep reading.

In this thread, you made the statement, "I made my motivations very clear from the very beggining." If you meant the Intro as the very beginning, that comment could sound to me like you are still wanting to get married, are not resolved. Not MGTOW.

Except in all of this dialogue I did find your statement that I believe overrides your multiple purple pill leanings:

I say this almost in every comment - I won't ever have a relationship because of what I know (redpill).

Alrighty then! I'm up to speed. You are a resolved MGTOW. I guess you are only saying that had you had a child you would have been blue pill. Clarification is at hand and I did not have to suffer too much the labyrinth of discussion!

Report closed. If I am incorrect in my conclusion, tell me.

Carry on, gentlemen. I gently ask that you avoid burying within your extended discussions any new references to old beliefs that might newly tag you once again as non-MGTOW.

Thank you.

Strange question...

Payphone payphone in the sky, watch him fall, a troll shall die.

Originally Posted by mgtower

Payphone payphone in the sky, watch him fall, a troll shall die.

🤣🤣 You should let Frog get in on the fun once in a while…

Originally Posted by Survivor64

藍藍 You should let Frog get in on the fun once in a while…

Hipity hipity hopity, get the fuck off my property!