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  1. #41
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by pool-boy View Post
    This forum.never had anything to do with incels that I noticed. I'm the opposite of an Intel in that I have throughout my life been turning women down --not the other way around. Men's biggest problems are caused by ignorance of how things really are, that's the red pill. To me it has very little to do with being anti anything.
    That's kinda how I see it. When a man goes down the rabbit hole of seeing the world for how it is he will notice irregularities in a lot of things...this just confirms that he's pursuing truth and it's refreshing. There's a narrative society lives by that runs counter to a MGTOW philosophy and it permeates everything...academics, religion, courts, marriage, family dynamics, dating, social media, pop culture, etc. Even online there's very few places where a man can proudly proclaim to be MGTOW without being banned or blatantly insulted as being a loser/scum.

  2. #42

    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Even though I have only been on this site a short time, I'm going to miss it.

    10 years is a long time.

    But as they say, all good things must come to an end.
    Thank you jagrmeister for providing a place for mgtow to gather, talk, and share ideas, and even vent if need be.

    God bless you and keep you my brother.
    And I wish you well in all your future endeavors.

    From your Canadian brother,
    Canadian Spartacus.

  3. #43
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    The bottom line...... is I've come to see MGTOW as doing more harm than good.
    I could not disagree more. Sites like this have arguably saved the lives of many men who otherwise might have opted to swallow a bullet. We have no idea the positive influence as such is not often reported. Our nature tends to focus on the negatives. It's just one of the curses of humanity.

    While I never contemplated suicide, five years ago I faced a very difficult decision and resigned from the company I'd worked at for over 25 years. Because of this MGTOW philosophy I had more confidence that I could walk away and be successful and the past five years have been better than I could have imagined. Employers count on the blue pill nature of men. The red pill/MGTOW philosophy is not tolerated well as shown by today's Dilbert strip:



    Because of its longevity this site likely stands head and shoulders above the others that have come and gone over the past nine years. The negativity you perceive is also indicative of the societal collapse that has long been predicted. Now more than ever this site is needed. If the influx of low quality new members is a problem then there are remedies for that. It does seem curious to me that after your proposal to create what reads like Happy Bachelors 2.0 landed with a thud that you make this announcement. Curious indeed.
    “Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.” – George Washington

  4. #44
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    I want to also give a shout out to Unboxxed. Dude took moderating responsibilities more seriously than any mod I've seen either here or anywhere else I've managed communities. Not just Mod but Admin responsibilities of the entire site, esp. significant as over time I spent less time here. Not only did the work but also proposed new ideas and processes.

    In the beginning he used to regularly send me 3 page reports of problems he identified or proposals LOL; and I had to gently ask him to summarize the issue. The work and passion to improve this place was clear. Didn't always agree on everything, no 2 people do, but we found a way to resolve our differences routinely. His work was appreciated.
    Thanks for saying this Jag. Truth is that the site needed both of you. Without you it would have never happened, and without the Box it would have gone bad much sooner. And as you say, he's a working fool.

    Maybe too much of a working fool, but that's what you get when a guy refuses to quit. Some members have no doubt noticed that Unboxxed and I have been banning guys for having a girlfriend, or even being open to the idea of having one. Jag recently spotted that and told the membership he didn't agree. Did our screwing up help Jag make his recent decision? I doubt it, his mind was likely already made up.

    Jag wanted the membership quality to remain reasonably high after dropping the intro system and how it got done, he left to Unboxxed. The box eventually decided on a stop them at the gates policy. Besides keeping the blue pill world at bay, he didn't want the rest of membership getting mixed messages from people who were part MGTOW but still setting on the fence. That's why having a girlfriend would get you banned. I didn't think it was much of a plan, but since he was the boss, I did it his way. To my surprise it actually worked, at least a little. Some guys left voluntarily. I thought Jag knew what we were doing, but a recent post in another thread showed he did not.

    Sad truth is, without the intro system I don't think there's any way to weed out the undesirables. Unboxxed was caught in a no-win situation if ever there was one.

    I expect some have noticed that Unboxxed doesn't appeared to have logged on for over a week. He's probably terminally disgusted with the lot of us, and I for one wouldn't blame him. Unboxxed, if you see this I'm deeply sorry for any part I might have played in this whole mess. You were a great administrator and a joy to work for. I'll miss you.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  5. #45
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    You guys made me log in again. What the fuck is going on? We are the men GOING OUR OWN WAY FFS! So what this site is shuttering? Find another way!

    As for Jagr, his dime, his wish, his way! Nothing you (we) could’ve done to stop this from happening so stop being sorry. NOTHING we did caused this. It’s all in Jagr’s mind. And why not, he’s the owner of this site he can do what he wants to do with this. I ain’t the one to conjecture, but this site is obviously NOT making money. These sites seldom do for anyone’s information!

    Let it be, in this case, let it die peacefully. We all know who’s what here. Nothing to be ashamed of what we are. Plenty of other fish in the pond. If not, change your fucking eating habits and slaughter a cow for dinner. You can’t find a cow, become vegan FFS! Just don’t be pleading or be sorry. This clown world is already full of fucking sorry people.

    Change is the only constant! And all good things come to an end, along with bad things!

    As frog would say “thems are the rules” of this world!

    Cheers!!

  6. #46
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Oh well - enjoyed my brief time here and it was a huge amount of help in figuring out who I am and why things have been challenging for me.

    I've come to look forward to my twice-daily check-ins and the many productive and entertaining conversations.

    I had previously reviewed other mgtow sites - they are complete shit-shows compared to here and I have no interest in any of them.

    Wishing everyone all the best in their journeys.

    Take care.

  7. #47
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Damn nothing truly last forever

    Thank you and all the other mods for making this site happen.

    I am sad to see this forum go, but I understand why it must go

    Everyone, be good to yourself and one another!
    May the gods smile upon you all

  8. #48
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    [...] Some members have no doubt noticed that Unboxxed and I have been banning guys for having a girlfriend, or even being open to the idea of having one. Jag recently spotted that and told the membership he didn't agree. Did our screwing up help Jag make his recent decision? I doubt it, his mind was likely already made up. [...]
    Seems like there was some miscommunication over what kind of MGTOW clientele GYOW was supposed to serve.

    There are basically two types of MGTOW clientele: There's MGTOW-lite and there's MGTOW-heavy.

    --MGTOW-lite simply says, "Don't get married."
    --MGTOW-heavy says, "Women are poison. Stay away from them as much as possible."

    The big difference between MGTOW-lite and MGTOW-heavy is that:
    --MGTOW-lite ("Don't get married") can include PUAs and MRAs. It can include PUAs since PUAs usually aren't intending to get married anytime soon; and it can include MRAs since most MRAs recognize the legal hazards of marriage. MGTOW-lite can even include married people who are in bad marriages, since they recognize the problems of marriage.
    --MGTOW-heavy ("Women are poison"), on the other hand, is more about ghosting. Ghosting women (with the exception of maybe some light pump-and-dump), and ultimately ghosting society (since society is so gynocentric).

    This kind of gets back to the so-called "5 levels of MGTOW." The 5 levels went from super-lite to super-heavy. I never really paid much attention to the "5 levels" theory, but some MGTOW people set great store by it. Link: https://indianmgtow.com/levels-of-mgtow/

    Anyway, I'm sure that members of GYOW have noticed that GYOW was originally designed for MGTOW-lite: It has forums for PUA and Game, for example. But the entrance requirements (for the last year or so, anyway) have been about proving that prospective members are MGTOW-heavy. So I guess the point is that Jagrmeister created a message board geared toward MGTOW-lite, and over the years it has gotten diverted into MGTOW-heavy content.

    I've noticed this, but I didn't care. I've been ghosting for a while, so I qualified by either measure. So it was a non-issue for me.

    But an emphasis on MGTOW-heavy does lead to a more paranoid, bitter clientele (what Jagrmeister called "Incel ideology"). MGTOW-heavy ghosts have usually been burned pretty bad, so they tend to be more negative than other types of MGTOW. So Jagrmeister wants to restructure the board back toward MGTOW-lite (he talked in another thread about opening a board for MGTOW dating) and/or simply close down the current MGTOW-heavy message board.

    I've got no problem either way. It's his board, so it's his choice. I'm a MGTOW ghost, but for the most part I'm just a casual observer of the MGTOW scene. I keep my distance from women, but I don't hate them. Maybe when this board closes down, I'll take the opportunity to go check out some MRA forums. Just to see what the politics are on those boards. I like Paul Elam's work (he's an old-guard MRA); the only difference between him and MGTOW is that he continues to interact with women using appropriate safeguards.

    As far as MGTOW goes, MGTOW-oriented message boards should probably try to define themselves better right in the heading of the message board. Are they lite or heavy? Or something in between? Clearly GYOW got confused on which MGTOW clientele it was supposed to be serving; it was built for lite but ended up with a heavy clientele. I think MGTOW.com also ran into similar problems in the past as far as deciding where it was supposed to fall on the lite-to-heavy spectrum. I remember a lot of arguing over whether PUA should be part of MGTOW discussions there.

    To sum up: There seems to be a lot of confusion over exactly what MGTOW stands for, even among the MGTOW crowd. So the forums should probably make it clearer right from the start how broad or narrow a red-pill niche they are going to serve.
    Last edited by MGTOWLife; February 11, 2023 at 4:31 PM.
    Where women have power over men, it's usually because blue-pill simps give them that power. So let the blue-pill simps live with the consequences. Today's world isn't of my making. I just recognize the realities and set myself apart.

    I don't hate women. I just don't want women in my own life. Females bring entitlement, strife, and drama; as a result there's no peace or relaxation when they are in my life. So I avoid them. They go their way, and I go mine.

  9. #49
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    MGTOWLife, you MGTOW light and heavy thing makes sense to me, though I never heard it explained that way. I never thought of MGTOW heavy affecting the place in a negative way either. Maybe it did, but I think that's a long shot and any affect it did have was minimal.

    It's not just a few cranks that are hard to get along with anymore. There's an Army of these guys Jag calls incells. Maybe they are, but most of them strike me as common internet assholes who see Jag as a handy place to ply their trade. Maybe they're a little bit MGTOW, but mostly they like being jerks. And there's always more, not less. A sign of the times, I guess. I don't think there's much could be done either. It's not a matter of screening when the majority of those being screened don't measure up or belong here.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  10. #50

    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    The bottom line...... is I've come to see MGTOW as doing more harm than good. The original spirit of MGTOW for men to do their own thing, without being overly influenced by women, was good. But it has influenced far too greatly by incel ideology, which was never the purpose of MGTOW. It's increasingly become a refuge for those who don't see eye to eye with anyone, those retaining overly paranoid conceptions of the opposite sex (versus nuanced caution), and those who've, unfortunately, largely just given up on the world and life.
    I would assume nuanced caution depends on your country of residence, there is no limit to the caution when involved with 1 night stands, hookups, or FwB that can land you in jail, court for years and stain the rest of your life on the legal record even if you were proven innocent. Canada, even cohabitation can legally mark a man and women as married if it lasts 6 months last I heard, don't keep up with the legal mumbo jumbo nowadays as it will never effect me.

    The rational thought to avoiding having your life ruined is avoiding majority of relationships with women via coming to that conclusion from your own thoughts and musings after taking in the information available.
    Just to mark the difference between what is considered common sense of avoiding the opposite sex vs incel ideology mentioned who are still stuck chasing women whether mentally or via dating.

    Like mentioned, depends on your country laws - but there is no "nuanced caution" that is enough if you want to live in peace. There are plenty of PUA forums and whatnot for guys to talk about all the pussy dey been slaying - doesn't make for very interesting or thought provoking conversation though. Leave it to the blue-pillers.

    0.02 cents.


    Would prefer somehow shoring up revenue if you wanted to keep things going - hate seeing my money leave the account & understand based on the cost basis.

  11. #51
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    [...] There's an Army of these guys Jag calls incells. Maybe they are, but most of them strike me as common internet assholes who see Jag as a handy place to ply their trade. Maybe they're a little bit MGTOW, but mostly they like being jerks. And there's always more, not less. A sign of the times, I guess. I don't think there's much could be done either. It's not a matter of screening when the majority of those being screened don't measure up or belong here.

    Lol. When Jag talks about "incel ideology," I don't think he's talking about the people that you and Unboxxed have been screening out. Instead, I think he's talking about the current GYOW membership. I think he's talking about you and me and all the other current members. In other words, I think he's saying that the current membership of GYOW has gotten so invested in the MGTOW-heavy outlook that we're starting to sound like incels.

    In the OP, here is what Jag says,

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    The bottom line...... is I've come to see MGTOW as doing more harm than good. The original spirit of MGTOW for men to do their own thing, without being overly influenced by women, was good. But it has influenced far too greatly by incel ideology,which was never the purpose of MGTOW. It's increasingly become a refuge for those who don't see eye to eye with anyone, those retaining overly paranoid conceptions of the opposite sex (versus nuanced caution), and those who've, unfortunately, largely just given up on the world and life. If you read our Principles, we intended to be the exact opposite. [...] I don't want to contribute any further to an ideology that's leading people astray.
    As I read it, he's describing GYOW. GYOW has gotten so MGTOW-heavy and so paranoid and bitter about women that GYOW has turned into "those who don't see eye to eye with anyone, those retaining overly paranoid conceptions of the opposite sex (versus nuanced caution), and those who've, unfortunately, largely just given up on the world and life."

    Maybe I'm reading the OP wrong. But I think Jag is saying that GYOW has become so MGTOW-heavy that we have begun to sound like incels moaning about how the world hates us. I think he's saying that GYOW is starting to sound like a bunch of whiny incels, and he no longer wants to be part of it.

    Again, that's how I'm reading the OP. It wasn't really clear, because Jag was kind of ranting. Maybe Jag will show up and correct me. But I have to say that I agree that GYOW has gotten whiny and bitter and negative. Lots of anti-government conspiracy freaks and so on among the membership. Lots of anger and whining.

    So Jag wants to close down the MGTOW-heavy message board (GYOW) with it's incel-like negativity and bitterness, and maybe start up a MGTOW-lite message board which will allow in more PUAs and MGTOW-lite people: It will allow in the people that you and Unboxxed have been screening out.
    Last edited by MGTOWLife; February 11, 2023 at 7:28 PM.
    Where women have power over men, it's usually because blue-pill simps give them that power. So let the blue-pill simps live with the consequences. Today's world isn't of my making. I just recognize the realities and set myself apart.

    I don't hate women. I just don't want women in my own life. Females bring entitlement, strife, and drama; as a result there's no peace or relaxation when they are in my life. So I avoid them. They go their way, and I go mine.

  12. #52
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Firstly, a big 'Thank You' for providing a space for MGTOWs to share and bond. Much more than a repository of information, community of camaraderie, friendship and laughs, this was also a guiding light where the once blind and desperate slaves looked to escape the plantation. How many men have been saved from society's system of slavery, disposability and suicide by finding this space, throughout its long-standing years in operation? It could sum to hundreds or possibly thousands, and more than justifies the 5-figures in operating cost in my humble opinion.

    Is Incel ideology unduly influencing MGTOW? Or is it that MGTOW has been deliberately conflated with women-hating and Inceldom by a gynocentric society which will not tolerate slaves leaving the plantation? In tarring MGTOWs as angry Incels, society may have won the propaganda battle but it will not prevent them from losing the war, as evidenced by plunging marriage rates. The message is out there beyond Reddit/Ruqqus/GYOW and has already become mainstream: men are going MGTOW without the label, as seen by reports that 45% of women will be single by 2030 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rhmoYdAtlY). Perhaps when something has gone mainstream there will always be more from every demographic: more of the quiet-acceptance types and also more from the angry-bargaining types and perhaps its the loud-angry types that capture the most attention.

    Also, when society pushes hard (and society has gone full clown world on male-disposability, laws and propaganda), it is understandable that one has to apply significantly more effort to push back harder in to overcome the heavy injustice and programming. Hence perhaps the newer crop appears more 'MGTOW-heavy' (to borrow MGTOWLife's term), because of all the push-back that they have had to do to arrive at MGTOW compared to their older peers?

    I'll take my leave with a Hitchhiker's Guide reference: So long and thanks for all the fish!
    Peace out

  13. #53

    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    I know: site's not down yet. But I bow my head with respect to you all, gentlemen. May life be kind to you.

  14. #54
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by JustWannaRetireFk View Post
    .. Like mentioned, depends on your country laws - but there is no "nuanced caution" that is enough if you want to live in peace. ..
    100% agree.

    With laws 40 years ago, there was such a thing a nuanced caution. Current laws have been changed to such an extent that there is no-longer any possibility of nuanced caution (Avoiding Marriage is Not Enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XwVpz0paOk). Laws have been getting worse all the time, and in future, it may be that a one-night stand is enough to grant a woman the right to divorce-rape a man.

    Perhaps the only nuanced caution that looks possible is overseas (see #passportbros), although there is no guarantee that the laws abroad will not change in future to become ever more gynocentric.
    Peace out

  15. #55
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    The "Autopsy" by MGTOWLife on the first page of this thread was spot on.

    Essentially there's too narrow a view for MGTOW to be considered moral pluralism.

    Other things are necessary to being for and of men's highest good. "I'll expand on MGTOW's Life's examples"
    Service to the community
    Spiritual accomplishment
    Hunting, fishing or sports
    Service to ones family
    Martial arts
    Music, Painting, Sculpting
    Wood Working
    Mechanics
    Computers
    Climbing
    Gymnastics
    Robotics
    Aeronautics
    Finances

    I could go on. There's lots of things Men in particular have always cared more about. But these things do need a focal point. It can't simply be "
    Our disdain for women in particular and for gynocentrism in general.", it HAS to be purely positive in nature; the betterment of men and thus the human race.

    In general most people have become apathetic, and further more the better men in the world have become nearly as complacent as women have become delusional. We are coming to some intense seemingly predestined crossroads on this world. And Men are lacking one of the most important things."almost suspiciously"

    Strong Intelligent Spiritual, Scientifically minded Self aware Uplifting Leaders.

    Idk about you; but they aren't just going to create themselves. So I'm making myself into one, you can speculate what might come from that.
    If the foundation is negative; so will be the outcome.

  16. #56
    Senior Member UnKnownSurviving's Avatar
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Whelp! I signed on since December 2021, and it's now February 2023. Little more than a year. My word.

    Several people here among my favorite posters, UNboxxed, MGTOWER, and Frog. But yeah, it was a wild, wild Run. I'm definitely gonna miss this site.

    If you guys want to catch up with with me, I'm on this site often: https://communities.win/c/MGTOW

    I'll probably join at some point, in MGTOWER's site: https://mengtow.freeforums.net/

  17. #57
    Senior Member UnKnownSurviving's Avatar
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    By the way, have you heard from UnBoxxed?? I just missed him. i hope he's okay.

  18. #58
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    The mental state I had when I went MGTOW was not the same mental state I have today. I changed. Everyone does.
    I didn't surround myself with an echo chamber that simply reinforced my POV all the time and doubled down on whatever I thought was right. I explored. After exploring I found out that I was initially right in my ideas, but you need to explore to find that out.

    If Jagr's mind has changed to the point where he no longer wants to continue the site as it is, then there's nothing wrong with that.

    MGTOW won't die. In fact, I think MGTOW is actually growing and it will continue to grow. Men will come to the conclusion with or without a forum to back up their claims. This is the expression of science: same materials, same method, same outcome.
    The most recent quote I heard is: "Women reject men overtly, men reject women silently."
    Silently, millions of men are all coming to the same conclusion... without reinforcement, without needing to be nudged in this direction and without needing to hear or see anything from anyone else. They're experiencing it and feeling it for themselves every single time they interact with a woman.
    If you believe everything you hear is a lie, you have a 100% lie detection rate.
    The opposite holds true but I would rather be surprised by the truth than a lie.

    Society is a Simulacrum.

  19. #59

    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    MGTOW is just there for thinking men that want to discuss the decaying body of society that they're surrounded by - I'd assume there were others but it's one of the first few canaries in the coal mine, you can't expect the annoying chirping to always be calm and collect when people in their rage phase are banging their pots and pans.

    To get you off the RP rage and move on with your life, people come to the sites usually in that stage cool-off and move with their lives after getting their bearings.
    The moral pluralism comes after that early stage of truth and "grieving". Adjust to the reality and move on with your life, though some do get stuck in the whining phase I suppose. If you keep watching stupid shit in the news you will keep being angry at human stupidity, what a surprise, you'll want moderation at the least to keep yourself level-headed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    And Men are lacking one of the most important things."almost suspiciously"

    Strong Intelligent Spiritual, Scientifically minded Self aware Uplifting Leaders.
    Yes, to anyone with critical thinking it's noticeable that there is a large horde of ignorant sheep. It's not a "men need to be better" but a societal one. Good luck not raising a cuck or whore - as a parent you will have the least amount of time with your kids, they will learn what society and their peers tell them, and you won't like the results if you aren't braindead and care about them.

    MGTOW isn't a negative foundation, it's a reality check that you adapt to and move on from once you've assimilated the knowledge.

  20. #60
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: After almost 10 years, GYOW is winding down (we will end the forums on May 10)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    The "Autopsy" by MGTOWLife on the first page of this thread was spot on.

    Essentially there's too narrow a view for MGTOW to be considered moral pluralism.

    Other things are necessary to being for and of men's highest good. "I'll expand on MGTOW's Life's examples"
    Service to the community
    Spiritual accomplishment
    Hunting, fishing or sports
    Service to ones family
    Martial arts
    Music, Painting, Sculpting
    Wood Working
    Mechanics
    Computers
    Climbing
    Gymnastics
    Robotics
    Aeronautics
    Finances

    I could go on. There's lots of things Men in particular have always cared more about. But these things do need a focal point. It can't simply be "
    Our disdain for women in particular and for gynocentrism in general.", it HAS to be purely positive in nature; the betterment of men and thus the human race.

    In general most people have become apathetic, and further more the better men in the world have become nearly as complacent as women have become delusional. We are coming to some intense seemingly predestined crossroads on this world. And Men are lacking one of the most important things."almost suspiciously"

    Strong Intelligent Spiritual, Scientifically minded Self aware Uplifting Leaders.

    Idk about you; but they aren't just going to create themselves. So I'm making myself into one, you can speculate what might come from that.
    If the foundation is negative; so will be the outcome.
    I disagree.

    First we would not criticize a site dedicated to a single hobby, like painting, for being "incomplete" and not "building men to highest good". That site would be what the community wanted of it, a single issue debate about what their passionate about.

    You can find THOUSANDS OF SITES ABOUT BUILDING THOUSANDS OF MANLY ARTS!
    You cand discuss history, phylosophy, languages and knitting in thousands of places.

    YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SPEAK ABOUT MGTOW LIKE OTHER THINGS!

    MGTOW sites are precious, and can save the life of young men that do not understand the way society will take advantage of their ignorance.

    So no. Closing this site is not a good thing. Some men could be saved that wont.

    Everything else is just empty words to justify doing it.


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