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  1. #1
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    A reminder: This Sub has never Been About Simple-Minded Extremism and Defeatism

    We have plenty of new members. Most have NOT read our Principles. https://www.goingyourownway.com/mgto...principles-16/

    Consequently, they lower the quality of our discourse by engaging in standard, low-quality assessments that degrade the forum. This forum has been here for 8 years and we've developed a framework for how to productively discuss men's issues.

    Let me zero in on one key part of Principles:

    Being true is about being inquisitive, thoughtful, curious, and insightful. The more you look at something, the more interesting wrinkles you find. Even well-understood MGTOW concepts like AWALT and Hypergamy can be understood in more nuanced ways with further examination.

    The opposite of truth is: absolutist, cynical, defeatist, a kind of “know-it-all”'ism with a shallow bumper-sticker logic behind it.
    First, if you haven't read the Principles, read them. And understand them. This is not, nor have ever has been, a place to hate women, or claim all are evil.

    It's not a place to engage in simple extremes and suggest lifestyles which are counter-productive like acting with paranoia around women. Extreme views tend to become popular for their simplicity but they obscure the truth. The more you dumb it down, the easier it is for some to digest.

    We do value thoughtful analysis, nuance, and most of all - the truth. The truth is almost never black & white; it requires deductive and inductive reasoning to arrive at. We do not value defeatism and cynicism- there are plenty of MGTOW spaces where you can routinely overrate the risk of women ("DON'T EVEN LOOK AT A WOMAN, DON'T MAKE EYE CONTACT!!11!"), and other self-defeating mentalities.

    People who have been on these boards know the difference. If I hear one person going "oh so you mean we can't criticize women", that's going to get the boot. Re-read what is written and the Principles.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  2. #2

    Re: A reminder: This Sub has never Been About Simple-Minded Extremism and Defeatism

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    It's not a place to engage in simple extremes and suggest lifestyles which are counter-productive like acting with paranoia around women. Extreme views tend to become popular for their simplicity but they obscure the truth. The more you dumb it down, the easier it is for some to digest.

    We do value thoughtful analysis, nuance, and most of all - the truth. The truth is almost never black & white; it requires deductive and inductive reasoning to arrive at. We do not value defeatism and cynicism- there are plenty of MGTOW spaces where you can routinely overrate the risk of women ("DON'T EVEN LOOK AT A WOMAN, DON'T MAKE EYE CONTACT!!11!"), and other self-defeating mentalities.
    It is usually the religious and political fanatics such as the Christians, Muslims, Neo-Nazis, Neo-Fascists, Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Feminists and SJWs who engage in absolutist, black and white and delusional thinking.

    They think this way because their beliefs demand unquestioned and absolute obedience to principles that are completely made up.

    An example of black and white thinking is obeying the rules in a religious or political book mindlessly without even considering the possibility that the rule was made up and not supported by scientific evidence.

    We MGTOW maintain neutrality to religion and politics because both sides are intolerant fanatics who obey their doctrines without question and sometimes even use violence to coerce people into becoming believers.

    I agree that we should not go down to the level of such people and support our arguments with facts and logic rather than hateful rants agitating for violence and an us vs them mentality.

    Here are some examples of extremism on both the right and left:

    https://www.returnofkings.com/88718/...lub-in-florida
    https://www.returnofkings.com/52639/...eral-narrative
    https://www.returnofkings.com/123766...ooting-rampage
    https://www.returnofkings.com/56360/...npost-and-splc
    https://www.returnofkings.com/100037...ear-yoga-pants
    https://www.eastbayri.com/stories/le...ga-pants,27761
    https://www.yahoo.com/now/2016-10-24...-21590637.html

  3. #3

    Re: A reminder: This Sub has never Been About Simple-Minded Extremism and Defeatism

    I would like to clarify that there's a difference between adopting an extremist view versus responding to someone else's extremism. For example, I would consider the idea that all women are so dangerous that they should be rounded up and sent to Gulag-style re-education camps to be extremism. However, I consider it perfectly acceptable to respond with outrage to the many extremist views of feminism, many of which have become mainstream. For example, it's shocking how many feminists accept the totally hateful and pro-genocide expression "kill all men." I don't really need to explain why that expression is majorly fucked up, do I? I would consider outrage against that expression to be reasonable and not to be extremist. It's the same thing with so many of their other disgusting and bigoted expressions like "male tears," "mansplaining," and "fragile male." I think it's the people using these terms as if they were normal who are extremists, while those objecting to them are reasonable and therefore are not extremists.

  4. #4
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: A reminder: This Sub has never Been About Simple-Minded Extremism and Defeatism

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I would like to clarify that there's a difference between adopting an extremist view versus responding to someone else's extremism. For example, I would consider the idea that all women are so dangerous that they should be rounded up and sent to Gulag-style re-education camps to be extremism. However, I consider it perfectly acceptable to respond with outrage to the many extremist views of feminism, many of which have become mainstream. For example, it's shocking how many feminists accept the totally hateful and pro-genocide expression "kill all men." I don't really need to explain why that expression is majorly fucked up, do I? I would consider outrage against that expression to be reasonable and not to be extremist. It's the same thing with so many of their other disgusting and bigoted expressions like "male tears," "mansplaining," and "fragile male." I think it's the people using these terms as if they were normal who are extremists, while those objecting to them are reasonable and therefore are not extremists.
    I think the examples I gave are pretty clear and indicate what does and doesn't fall under "extremism". Calling out feminism isn't extremism.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  5. #5

    Re: A reminder: This Sub has never Been About Simple-Minded Extremism and Defeatism

    I think you're right that extremism is a popular option because it is cognitively simple. You don't really have to think. It is more of an emotional decision than a rational one. Nuance? Who cares about nuance. Women bad, men good!


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