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  1. #1

    Another reluctant red-piller...

    Hello all, another reluctant and/or confused Red Piller here….

    So why am I a reluctant Red Piller?

    I am still thirsty as a dog in the sahara from having spent the past 10 years ina loveless, sexless marriage that started 44 years ago. It ended with my wife’s death from cancer this year.

    Why did I stick around that marriage so long and how did I get here?

    Simple – I was to discover after my wife’s death that I was a blue-pill Beta simp who thought I was doing everything a good, loving and supportive hubby and family-man should do in a marriage.

    It wasn’t until after her death that I seen mention of the term “MGTOW” tossed around in a forum. So I started reading things here and there, and watching the many Yootoobs on “MGTOW” and adult relationships, given my need to learn how to “relate to women” all over again now that I am alone.

    Dayem, the more I absorbed the more I realized they were literally talking about me,and my wife, and my dumpster fire of a marriage. It all fell into place – years too late...

    The constant shiit-tests which I didn’t recognize and so failed them miserably.

    The “frame” I was “maintaining”; mine was bent, twisted, cracked, rusted out and was held together by hope.

    My total failure to assert myself stemmed from my desire to “give and take”, compromise, and share - all in my role of “good” marriage partner –which as it was; my surrender to subservience without a shot fired.

    I went into the military after HS, and returned home to marry my HS sweetheart. Our first 6 years were wonderful before baby-rabies took hold. Admittedly, it was even more fun chasing ovulations...

    Anyway, two kids and a miscarriage later and our marriage started a slow decline with the aging of the kids,and undoubtedly with the wife’s realization that ongoing baby-rabies or not, common sense dictated two kids was the limit and now she had to be a big girl instead of a mommy.

    So the frustrations of The Wall intensified her bitching, and the constant belittling, nasty, rotten, hateful, hate-filled rants became more frequent.

    No matter how hard I worked, or how much money I made, or how much I did for her -or “for the good of the family” – it was never enough to keep her off my ass.

    We both pretty much resolved for “us” to dissolve after my youngest turned 18, when we were to split everything 50/50 and simply part ways.

    I can’t recall the absolute exact timeline, but I guess we were too lazy, busy, or both to ditch all our household junk and re-do the house to sell, so divorce never happened when the youngest hit 18 and was now in a local college.
    And/or the realization that with her widowed father going into a nursing home – leaving me meant she was out on the street instead of moving back home. (Ironically, her dad loved me like a son and would have freaked at that thought – which is another reason why she never made good on her promise.)

    That and there may also have been the new-found hope that with the impending marriage of my son to his college sweetheart, we would be grandparents soon. (Which would eventually add new tensions of their own to the mix when she didn’t get along with the D-I-Law…)

    So we both kinda dropped divorce-speak, but not because of any improvement between“us”, but rather the realization we were basically just housemates now.

    Her diagnosis of breast cancer also spelled the end to my divorce-speak, how could I turn her loose with zero practical job skills, no healthcare of her own, and; a terminal illness in front of her?

    My kids and my wonderful in-laws would never forgive me.

    Despite this, the cancer just made her more bitchy and hateful to me – to the point where she blamed me for her cancer.

    With my youngest now married and in a home of her own, she found a new out to “leave me” as she once hoped to do when her dad was alive. Until I reminded her that no one was going to be there to look after her like I did.

    It eventually ended when she died in my arms at in-home hospice, not even saying goodbye in her final breaths.


    I go to bereavement meetings and counseling now, as I once loved her dearly and miss her, but at the same time I hate her - and myself for what I allowed her to do to me all those years.
    She didn’t die when I was 23, 33, 43, 53 – when I could have a chance at starting another life. No, she died now that I am a senior citizen, with the horndog of an 18yr old and stuck in incel-hell.
    Last edited by mg0815; January 23, 2020 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Fix pidgen Engrish

  2. #2
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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by mg0815 View Post
    Hello all, another reluctant and/or confused Red Piller here….

    So why am I areluctant Red Piller?
    I am stillthirsty as a dog in the sahara from having spent the past 10 years ina loveless, sexless marriage that started 44 years ago. It endedwith my wife’s death from cancer this year.
    Why did I stickaround that marriage so long and how did I get here?
    Simple – I wasto discover after my wife’s death that I was a blue-pill Beta simpwho thought I was doing everything a good, loving and supportivehubby and family-man should do in a marriage.
    It wasn’t untilafter her death that I seen mention of the term “MGTOW” tossedaround in a forum. So I started reading things here and there, andwatching the many Yootoobs on “MGTOW” and adult relationships,given my need to learn how to “relate to women” all over againnow that I am alone.
    Dayem, the more Iabsorbed the more I realized they were literally talking about me,and my wife, and my dumpster fire of a marriage. It all fell intoplace – years too late.
    The constantshiit-tests which I didn’t recognize and so failed them miserably.
    The “frame” Iwas “maintaining”; mine was bent, twisted, cracked, rusted outand was held together by hope.
    My total failureto assert myself stemmed from my desire to “give and take”,compromise, and share all in my role of “good” marriage partner –which as it was; my surrender to subservience without a shot fired.
    I went into themilitary after HS, and returned home to marry my HS sweetheart. Ourfirst 6 years were wonderful before baby-rabies took hold.Admittedly, it was even more fun chasing ovulations...
    Anyway, two kids and a miscarriage laterand our marriage started a slow decline with the aging of the kids,and undoubtedly with the wife’s realization that ongoingbaby-rabies or not, common sense dictated two kids was the limitand now she had to be a big girl instead of a mommy.
    So thefrustrations of The Wall intensified her bitching, and the constantbelittling, nasty, rotten, hateful, hate-filled rants became morefrequent.
    No matter howhard I worked, or how much money I made, or how much I did for her -or “for the good of the family” – it was never enough to keepher off my ass.
    We both prettymuch resolved for “us” to dissolve after my youngest turned 18,when we were to split everything 50/50 and simply part ways.
    I can’t recallthe absolute exact timeline, but I guess we were too lazy, busy, orboth to ditch all our household junk and re-do the house to sell, sothat never happened when the youngest hit 18 and was now in a localcollege.
    And/or therealization that with her widowed father going into a nursing home –leaving me meant she was out on the street instead of moving backhome. Ironically, her dad loved me like a son and would have freakedat that thought – which is another reason why she never made good on her promise.
    That and theremay also have been the new-found hope that with the impending marriage of my son to his collegesweetheart, we would be grandparents soon. (Which would eventually add new tensions of their own tothe mix when she didn’t get along with the D-I-Law…)
    So we both kindadropped divorce-speak, but not because of any improvement between“us”, but rather the realization we were basically justhousemates now.
    Her diagnosis ofbreast cancer also spelled the end to my divorce-speak, how could Iturn her loose with zero practical job skills, no healthcare of herown, and; a terminal illness in front of her?
    My kids and mywonderful in-laws would never forgive me.
    Despite this, thecancer just made her more bitchy and hateful to me – to the pointwhere she blamed me for her cancer.

    With my youngest now married andin a home of her own, she found a new out to “leave me” as sheonce hoped to do when her dad was alive. Until I reminded her thatno one was going to be there to look after her like I did.

    It eventually ended when she died in my arms at in-home hospice, not even saying goodbye in her final breaths.


    I go tobereavement meetings and counseling now, as I once loved her dearly andmiss her, but at the same time I hate her - and myself ‘for whatI allowed her to do to me all those years.
    She didn’t diewhen I was 23, 33, 43, 53 – when I could have a chance at startinganother life. No, she died now that I am a senior citizen, with thehorndog of an 18yr old and stuck in incel-hell.
    Hi mg0815,

    You indicate you are in bereavement. Please accept my condolences at her passing.

    It's a sad story, yours. I let your Intro pass into the forum for the members to see and comment because of all that you wrote. I am sympathetic. However, you do indicate that you are a reluctant red-piller while we are only enthusiastic red-pillers here. That has to be noticed. On this site, we also do not allow blue pills, purple pills, incels, or Chads. You indicate you are a horndog and thirsty as a dog. Red pillers do get horny and do get needs met, but here they remain unequivocal about where they stand with MGTOW. Your reluctance tells me that other forces are competing for your future attention, or maybe you are leaving your options open for non-MGTOW relationships and I get that, because my hunch is that, in your acknowledged confusion, you are too soon out of your marriage to know where you will land in terms of swearing off future emotional relationships.

    Or, maybe not. That's what an Intro hashes out. And maybe in talking with us in this Intro thread we can help somewhat with any confusion.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

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  3. #3

    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Thanks Unboxxed for the understanding of my confusion. Personally, I'd be happy as hell being MGTOW monk and I am getting used to the me-focused solitude on a daily basis. But...

    Sure wish I could find hookers in Pittsburgh to satisfy the urges.

  4. #4
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    I'm not gonna say why, but you can't see the blessings I see, and it would only upset you if I told you why. Lets just say the hatchet of divorce rape never came about, your miseries would have multiplied 10 fold!

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Sorry for your loss. The end of all those years together even in a loveless relationship must be difficult to come to terms with. Your story will be familiar in many ways to most of us here, but I’m unsure if MGTOW is really for you – yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by mg0815 View Post
    She didn’t die when I was 23, 33, 43, 53 – when I could have a chance at starting another life. No, she died now that I am a senior citizen, with the horndog of an 18yr old and stuck in incel-hell.
    You describe yourself as incel, in other words you would like to try again but because of your age or other factors you feel that it is unlikely. Understandable.

    While a few become MGTOW via inceldom we have completely different attitudes. The MGTOW chooses not to have emotional relationships with women. We don’t want them in our lives in any meaningful way. That does not mean however that we are all celibate, many have one night stands or use other methods to satisfy their needs.

    MGTOW isn’t really something you decide to become or even fall into, it’s more of an understanding that no matter how it may appear when you think you’ve found that “special someone” relationships with women in today’s day and age is a bad idea for men, a very bad idea, hell maybe it always was. As for why, read the multitudes of other posts here to see how the law in particular and society in general is skewed in favour of women, and that’s without even getting in to their nature.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    I am not sure that reluctant fits with the rest of the story.

  7. #7

    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    I am not sure that reluctant fits with the rest of the story.
    It does in the sense that I want poontang.

    And lots of it to make up for the lost decade of lackanooky when I was in my prime.

    Trust me; hookers would be great and good enough.

    I love it now that I only answer to myself. I can crank my music 7x24, take more flying lessons, maybe buy an ultralight, drive the used 997.2 Porsche I bought 7 months ago.

    I am in hog heaven, but pussy-less heaven.

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    mg0815 it sounds like you are more upset with having to stick around with your dying wife than it does to her getting sick and dying . You also said her illness was the reason for not leaving her......Quiet noble if that is indeed the reason you decided to stay.

    You said that y'all had plans to GYOW when the kids got grown, yet you didn't. You stuck around for how ever many more years. How do you just sorta forget to do that? .
    Instead of having to split it 50/50 thru a divorce....you decided to stay with her and now you own it all.. 100%...smooth move.

    So now you are into flying lessons....got a new Porsche (new to you) jamming with tunes....doing the things you wanted to do 30 years ago...but couldn't cause you had a wife and kids.
    Are you done with women and their manipulative ways...tired of their lies and games and all the other hoop jumping shit they play......tired of being a fashion accessory ?
    I hear what you are saying.... and what you are saying is you still crave that pussy. The Game! the Conquest !

    Okay so now go on and hate me but i gotta ask....... If you Wife had not passed....would you be here now and be claiming MGTOW....or home watching TV?

    If that is what you desire.... the game......nothing wrong with your decision .....but that is not MGTOW. sorry.

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Okay so now go on and hate me but i gotta ask....... If you Wife had not passed....would you be here now and be claiming MGTOW....or home watching TV?
    I think we already know this answer. He'd be doing in-home hospice, as he indicated.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    yep..... I was just driving the point....

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by mg0815 View Post
    It does in the sense that I want poontang.

    And lots of it to make up for the lost decade of lackanooky when I was in my prime.

    Trust me; hookers would be great and good enough.

    I love it now that I only answer to myself. I can crank my music 7x24, take more flying lessons, maybe buy an ultralight, drive the used 997.2 Porsche I bought 7 months ago.

    I am in hog heaven, but pussy-less heaven.
    Yeah like I have said 100 times... wish someone would have tapped me on the shoulder when I was young and let me know.

    From here on out - Don't cohabitate and obviously don't re-marry

  12. #12

    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoppes#9 View Post
    mg0815 it sounds like you are more upset with having to stick around with your dying wife than it does to her getting sick and dying . You also said her illness was the reason for not leaving her......Quiet noble if that is indeed the reason you decided to stay.

    You said that y'all had plans to GYOW when the kids got grown, yet you didn't. You stuck around for how ever many more years. How do you just sorta forget to do that? .
    Instead of having to split it 50/50 thru a divorce....you decided to stay with her and now you own it all.. 100%...smooth move.

    So now you are into flying lessons....got a new Porsche (new to you) jamming with tunes....doing the things you wanted to do 30 years ago...but couldn't cause you had a wife and kids.
    Are you done with women and their manipulative ways...tired of their lies and games and all the other hoop jumping shit they play......tired of being a fashion accessory ?
    I hear what you are saying.... and what you are saying is you still crave that pussy. The Game! the Conquest !

    Okay so now go on and hate me but i gotta ask....... If you Wife had not passed....would you be here now and be claiming MGTOW....or home watching TV?

    If that is what you desire.... the game......nothing wrong with your decision .....but that is not MGTOW. sorry.

    I am indeed pissed at the late wife to the point where I've told my now-adult kids that I do not want her cremains buried within 40 miles of me. In fact for the longest time I sent "her" to live with my daughter out of state - she finally had her wish to run away and for me to be out of her life. (I just have to be careful what I say in front of family - they have zero idea the hell I went thru and I don't want them to think I am a whiner.)

    So yes, I have hatred.

    Because now looking back, I was completely ignorant as to what was going on until after she passed and I had the endless free time to discover.

    I found sources to select info from like Sandman and his millions of youtubes, or Stefan Molyneux or Coach Greg or Red pill mens health or Jordan Peterson or Alexander Grace or Karen Straugn or TFM or Rollo and so forth. Even the PUAs like 33Secrets exposed the female shit I had no knowledge of.

    I now see in hindsight how her daily behaviors towards me readily mapped to what I had heard. She was well known to everyone but me. The only thing she didn't do was monkey branch. As Sandman says - I was good enough to be her cash and prizes.

    But I didn't know this at the time; I just figured I was like the 99-bagillion other pee-pee whipped husbands bobbing on the Blue waters like corks waiting on our wifeys to invite us back to bed.

    Had no idea about solipsism or Bruffault's Law or weaponizing sex or the constant shit-tests - that I obviously failed.

    And if she were still alive - I'd just be another Blue cork bobbing along in life. Unable to leave her "for the good of the kids" - and for her continuing medical care.

    No one understands this until they take the red pill and see what they are - or have been - up against...

    A friend wanted me to go to his upcoming bachelor party, I declined and quietly explained to his inquisitive father that the person who voted for marriage and babies was now dead, and that I myself have given up on the notion of marriage completely and forever. Asked why - told him, too much to simplify. Google MGTOW and start reading.

    And ironically - the friend getting married?

    This is will be his second marriage - his babe first wife monkey'd away from him for a bad boy! And it gets better: his very own sister; monkeyed away from her stable husband for a bad boy. Her ex-husband is a great guy, he is now making 6figs a year and on his own, while she works in retail while being entangled with a bad-boy bum.

    Prostitution should be legal everywhere. It would save millions of men from mental abuse.
    Last edited by mg0815; January 24, 2020 at 9:42 PM. Reason: Punctuation fix.

  13. #13
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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by mg0815 View Post
    (I just have to be careful what I say in front of family - they have zero idea the hell I went thru and I don't want them to think I am a whiner.)
    Maintaining that appearance is a major expense of energy. You served her and now you continue to serve everyone else.

    So yes, I have hatred.
    Another major expense of energy.

    I just figured I was like the 99-bagillion other pee-pee whipped husbands bobbing on the Blue waters like corks waiting on our wifeys to invite us back to bed.
    Geez, that is pathetic. But, well said!

    And if she were still alive - I'd just be another Blue cork bobbing along in life. Unable to leave her "for the good of the kids" - and for her continuing medical care.
    There are many situations from which men come to MGTOW.

    I myself have given up on the notion of marriage completely and forever.
    This statement is an important part of your Intro. What about outside the legal thing called marriage? Do you have hopes for emotional relationships with women outside of marriage? I know you indicate favoring prostitution and otherwise resolving your horniness, but that doesn't mean you aren't also looking for a LTR with no marriage. Please clarify yourself on this.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Free time is a gift.

    A lot of men are conditioned to believe that free time is wasted time if they are not grinding at a job. But when I have free time I find I can have fun, think of more ways to make/save money, and also do things I love which can generate value whether physical, monetary or contentment.

    Once you discover the truth about the value of time you will think of ways to save more money and to invest more in passive income strategies. This is because you are trying to think of more ways to increase free time while still being able to pay bills and keep the lights on.

    And if you are already retired then it is very easy to find ways to increase free time with some smart planning.

    Men sabotage their own success by thinking that they are not worthy, they did not do enough to earn it, or they are destined to grind at the same job over and over again.

  15. #15
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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Hello and welcome and welldone for choosing to initially I.D with MGTOW over P.U.A or M.R.A or suchlike.

    I cannot comment on your version of MGTOW (each to their own) but do wish you a good journey because it is a journey of realisation and adjustment to that which is....the way things are and the way they work and the navigation of that.

    The birds sing, the bees sting and the dogs bark and thats how it is despite we may wish it otherwise, attribute further meanings to it all, rationalise, quantify and qualify... and get pissed-off 'cos it isn't how we romanticised it.

    Ironically, get your MGTOW right and it seems to be a bit of a babe-magnet. I've never been so popular with the ladies despite I wouldn't (and indeed probably couldn't now) dip my wick in the proffered grease.

    One of our fellows offered that many MGTOW are only a sniff of pussy away from letting their bollocks regain control of their existence again and he's probably right.

    I'd offer a question or two (perhaps others could refine them) to enquire yourself in your confusion to save you wasting your time and effort.

    Can you overcome the rage, disappointment and self-disgust at having been pwned by the mistakes of your past....can you move on?

    Can you self-improve and take ownership of everything that you are?

    Can you build a bigger and better frame than the one thats been destroyed?

    Good luck with your MGTOW journey.
    Flow with whatever may happen and let your mind be free. Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. Zhuangzi

    someone asked the poet Sophocles: "How are you in regard to sex, Sophocles? Can you still make love to a woman?" Hush man, the poet replied, I am very glad to have escaped from this, like a slave who has escaped from a mad and cruel master."

    Dont worry about me. Worry about why you're worried about me.

  16. #16

    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post

    From here on out - Don't cohabitate and obviously don't re-marry
    No commitments or relationships for this guy ever again. Everyday of bachelorhood freedom is spoiling me. Its 0749 AM here on my work from home day and the stereo is blasting. I know its small, but its huge to me.

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by mg0815 View Post
    No commitments or relationships for this guy ever again. Everyday of bachelorhood freedom is spoiling me. Its 0749 AM here on my work from home day and the stereo is blasting. I know its small, but its huge to me.
    Ha, I was waiting for you to reply to my question in Post #13 before I would cut you loose from moderation but you have answered me here in your reply to Warfish.

    So, welcome (!) and I have moved you out of moderation. You are free to post elsewhere. Your other post that was held back is now also visible.

    Please review our Principles in the link at the top of the page.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax and register-her.net

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    How illegal is prostitution where you live? Even if it is somewhat illegal, is there a local market (not too local, never shit on your own doorstep)? I know most of the US is a wasteland for punting but I'd like to find out if your barriers to P4P are invented or real.

    Are you able to travel? Check out the p4p forum, you'll find lots of people in the same position.

    Nothing wrong with being horny, we are all humans. As long as from this point on you never marry, never cohabitate and never reproduce, it's up to you to define your own version of MGTOW. It's *your* own way after all.

  19. #19

    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Quote Originally Posted by CultVoid View Post
    How illegal is prostitution where you live? Even if it is somewhat illegal, is there a local market (not too local, never shit on your own doorstep)? I know most of the US is a wasteland for punting but I'd like to find out if your barriers to P4P are invented or real.

    Are you able to travel? Check out the p4p forum, you'll find lots of people in the same position.

    Nothing wrong with being horny, we are all humans. As long as from this point on you never marry, never cohabitate and never reproduce, it's up to you to define your own version of MGTOW. It's *your* own way after all.
    I live on the other side of the nation from Las Vegas and the "bunny ranch" - where I expect the gals are checked for STDs on a regular basis...

    I was in a monogamous relationship for 47 years, 20 of which devolved into a relationshitt, so bars, clubs, nightlife is totally foreign to me. My bet is any-local-to-me gals - P4P or otherwise - will be STD-laden from the PUAs that feed their egos. I'm thinking the "juice isn't worth the squeeze" as they say.

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    Re: Another reluctant red-piller...

    Just to be clear though, you described yourself as an "incel" earlier, or at least stuck in "incel-hell".

    You're not, because you're deciding not to take part. That's voluntary.

    We've never met and it's none of my business, but your posts strike me that you're pretty angry you're not getting any, but that's it's other people's fault you're not getting any. You say even if you could find some P4P, then these people you've never met will be STD laden because of all the evil PUAs, who again you've never met and probably don't exist.

    You've made up all of that in your head. You've locked yourself in your own "volcel" hell. Hint: hookers are often much cleaner than civvies because their livelihood depends upon it. Yes they're leeches but at least they're honest about it. Bonus: you'll be made to bag it up anyway which will keep you free of most problems, as long she hasn't got boils or warts all over that pontang, you're almost certainly in the clear.

    If you really do want "poontang and lots of it" (had to google that), you'll need to stop blaming the clap-ridden whores and PUAs, get your wallet out and accept that everybody (who wants it) has to pay for it, and a few hundred dollars is much cheaper than years of your life.

    Failing that, get a flight booked to that bunny ranch. Life is short. You'll also find after just a moderate amount of poontang that it's not really all that, but you'll have got it out of your system.

    Or, ignore me and do whatever you want. It's your way, not other people's. But the outcomes you receive are down to the choices you make.


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