Thread: Red pill via religion

Well, I can't find my original intro. So I'll rewrite it. It hasn't changed much.

(Re-reading this, it's mainly about religion. I can't help that: it's my story.)

I grew up christian. Pentecostal, speaking-in-toungues , raising-the-hands and worshipping Jesus christian. One of those. For me, the Red Pill was more about leaving the faith than anything else.

Oh, I had a nice christian girlfriend at one point. I was her fifth boyfriend and knowing what I know now, she was definitely not a virgin, peoples. Didn't know it at the time.

Thing is, I enjoyed the sexy parts of the relationship (no actual sex, you understand - one of the regrets of my life, I totally should have fucked her, athough with my luck I would have knocked her up and ruined my life), but the rest of it was kinda a drag. Mostly the demands on my time.

She was nuts, of course. Her daddy loved her older brother more than her etc etc. You know the drill. Other things. Hanging out the washing. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it, and we – “we” you understand – do things the right way.

Oh yeah, and there was easter when I bought her an egg and she bought me a bigger one and I felt like shit. I fucking hate buying gifts. Always get it wrong.

About, say, 18 months into it, we attended a wedding of one of her rellos. The bride threw the bouquet directly at my g/f, and that moment crystallised the thought in these words: “I do not want to marry this person”.

Why? As I recall, as best I could verbalise it, I did not want to spend the rest of my life being wrong about every little thing.

She did have sweet tits, though, and I do regret never slipping her the bone.

⁂

So, I spent the rest of the 90's watching all the other people in church getting married to one another. Oh, and I lived at a mixed christian group house for six months and me and Sophie were totally fucking. So was everyone else. It was the happiest six months of my life. Three months into it, I kinda told her that there was no real future in this, and she called me a snake – which really means something coming from an Australian country girl. We stepped around one another in that group house for like four days or so, and then I think I made the move and we were back at it like knives. But it was never really the same.

So mainly I watched people getting married. People who really shouldn't have gotten married to one another, in a few instances. I watched the church finances blow up and the church fail. Couple of people lost their houses.

But first:

⁂

I lived for a year or so with a married couple with kids who took me in when I was unemployed. I saw the wife scream at the kids every morning. And I saw what she did all day: straight back to bed at 9:30, emerge at 2, drinkies and smokes with her friends on the deck, kids home at 4 – in front of the TV. Then hubby gets home at six or seven and it's what's for dinner – let's order pizza. Don't tell me it's the hardest job in the world, I saw it with my own eyes.

And you know, I think that was the most serious Red Pill. I lived with a couple. As an adult, I saw the dynamic. I saw what housewives actually do, what life is like for them. It's a fucking non-stop vacation.

Don't get me wrong – this couple saved my life. They helped me when I needed help. Unsurprisingly to me now, they were new christians. Out of all the pastors, all the been-christans-for-generations people, there was one pair of people who were actually good people. Thirty years later, I'd do anything in my power for either of 'em.

But I can't help seeing what I saw.

⁂

So people paired up. I was a christian incel, heading into my 30s. The internet was becoming a thing, and I encountered – don't laugh – Ross Jeffries and Speed Seduction. So I thought I'd look into NLP. I bought the Bandler and Grinder books: Reframing, Trance Formations, The Structure of Magig and the Hypnotic Techniques of milton Erickson. They are still sitting on my bookshelf over there.

And after reading them, damn if I couldn't help noticing what was really going on during praise and worship time. Now of course I understood that when people stood up to prophesy, sometimes it was just the person speaking, sometimes it was God. But then you have to inquire: “ok, how much of this is just the person? How often?” After reading the NLP stuff, I had to ask the same things about the whole praise-and-worship thing in general. I couldn't help noticing how so many of the songs painted Jesus in terms of an ideal lover. I remembered once commenting to the pastor that the intercessory prayer group was full of single and divorced women, and he replied “and women with weak husbands”. Didn't understand then what I understand now, what that meant.

But the faith has two sides: the word and the spirit. They each agree together. If I had come to be a little – lets say – sophisticated in my understanding of the more spiritual aspects of the faith, there was still The Bible.

Which, come to think of it, I didn't actually read that much of.

⁂

So they asked me to give a talk on the doctrine of The Bible. I thought, “well, where am I going to find out about that?” So I went to the Anglican theological library, and found the confession of faith. Twelve volumes of it. I read the stuff on why we believe The Bible to be the word of God and what it means to believe that. And as I read, my heart just rang like a bell with affirmation. “Yes!”, I thought, “Yes! This is what I believe!”.

You see, the happy-clappy churches are just a shade light on the more intellectual aspects of christianity, which kinda matters to the INTP types. Reading this serious treatment of something so important to me was water in the desert.

But finding out about the bible had an interesting side-effect.

First, I gained an understanding that the books of the bible – that particular compilation of books that you buy when you go into the christian bookshop and buy a bible – didn't exactly arrive on earth via a fax from heaven. There are controversies about what's inspired canon and what's not. Ultimately, we trust that the Bible is inspired because the christians before us decided that those were the books to trust, and because we feel that God speaks to us when we read it.

Second, there at the Anglican theological library, reading about my own faith, I asked a fateful question: what must the Anglicans think of us?

⁂

What must the Anglicans think of our happy-clappy spirit filled church? Well, probably what they do think, that we are theological idiots and only stay out of heresy and worse because God is inexplicably patient with idiots.

And you know, they have a point.

But then I had to ask: what must the catholics think of the protestants? Catholics been around thoudsand of years the true church. Protestants are just splitters. What must the eastern orthodox churches think of the catholics? The eastern orthodox churches come from asia-minor, the place where the actual books of the bible (Galatia, Thessalonica) were written. The roman church are just heretics, who stole half the faith by worldly political power.

But what about buddhism and hinduism? They have been around way longer. What must they think our philosophies and theologies? They must think they are just kid's stuff. And what about the atheists? How do they see all this?

How would I see all this if I were an atheist? What if I just plain didn't believe it?

So for – months? Years? – I went to church and sang the happy-clappy songs and watched the ladies getting all overcome with holy devotion over Jesus. And I could flip my vision like owning two sets of goggles. I could see the Holy Spirit and the power of God. I could see that they were al just fooling themselves. We talk about the Blue Pill and Red Pill. This was pre “The Matrix”, but I had that experience. Weighing the two world-views up. Coming to a decision.

One day, I decided “Look – I am having serious doubts about the faith. The plan of salvation is laid out in Romans 7-8, I should just sit down and read it”.

⁂

Oh. My. God.

You see, a christian already knows what the bible says before he opens the cover. So what he reads is only what he knows is already there. I made the mistake of reading what actually is there. I discovered two things.

First, that what St Paul actually believed was batshit insane.

Second, that it was nothing like what I had always been taught. Key words like 'carnal'.

I had serious problems with the whole spiritual aspect of my religion. The nonexistent healings, the void-of-content prophecies, the “spiritual” experiences that were plainly just repressed sex and self-hypnosis. How much was just people fooling themselves? Pretty much all of it? Could be. I only believed my religion because I thought it was in line with the bible.

Why did I trust the bible? Why, because my religion told me it was true and trustworthy! The Word of God, doncha know.

But if the two deeply contradict one another, which do I go with? The utterly unsupported-by-scripture silliness of my church; or the lunatic dystopian world-view of St Paul that my church had spent a lifetime protecting me from seeing?

I looked out the window, and out loud said “I just don't believe it at all anymore, do I? Not any of it.”

⁂

Since then – whores, getting older. People and rellos dying. Other red pills, in dribs and drabs. You collect stories over the years, of course. But for me, Going My Own Way was primarily about leaving Jesus behind. The whole “true nature of women”, hypergamy, sluttery and so on was really just a byproduct of seeing religion for what it is.

Apologies to the christians here. But it's only a fake “I'm sorry this offends you” apology, because you are all wrong about God and this is just not my fault. Is what it is.

Cheers guys.

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Wombat!

I have to agree -- I was raised catholic, and being the more intellectual type, actually decided to sit down and read this here bible thing end to end. What an eye opener! And although there is a massive amount of nonsense, there are actually some pretty astounding gems of wisdom in various places in the old testament.

Believe it or not, I do still attend mass -- the community there is in many ways "home" for me, many friends, many wonderful people. But the other piece that I get that I find extremely helpful is that even if I don't believe -- the basic message of Christ to be humble and to be kind to others is so massively refreshing in a world where we are bombarded with the opposite message continually. I know it helps me to relax, to keep up my defenses against the materialism that constantly tries to creep in, and yes, to keep my oversize ego a bit in check.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

I made the mistake of reading what actually is there. I discovered two things.

First, that what St Paul actually believed was batshit insane.

Second, that it was nothing like what I had always been taught. Key words like 'carnal'.

Yep. I love stirring things up from time to time in Bible study by bringing up what the Bible actually says.

For example, Jacob is held up as a role model for little children. Jacob is one of the least Christian characters in the Bible.

Good intro. Welcome.

Oh, incidentally young-uns: paragraphs? See what a difference it makes? Would you have read this is it was a single wall of text? Hell no. I also enjoy using the asterism

⁂ for sections: gives things an old-timey, 19th century feel.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

Oh, incidentally young-uns: paragraphs? See what a difference it makes? Would you have read this is it was a single wall of text? Hell no. I also enjoy using the asterism

⁂ for sections: gives things an old-timey, 19th century feel.

At the risk of sounding old, stodgy, and like I'm ganging up with Wombat, he's absolutely right. If I see a block of text more than ten or twelve lines, my eyes start to glaze over. It's easier (and quicker) to process information if the text is sectioned off into distinct packets of information.

I had a very similar experience except I only recently came out of religion near 5 years ago.

The true scholars of the bible (the people who interpret and date each passage and book within it) could tell you how fake the events in the bible really are.

Thanks for sharing Wombat. I enjoyed reading your story.

Hey Wombat, pleased to meetchya.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

I fucking hate buying gifts. Always get it wrong.

For real, me too. I refuse to buy gifts for anybody, and I refuse to accept them. If I buy somebody something, it's never associated with a culturally-mandated day (birthday, holiday, anniversary, etc) and they were always practical. I bought a power drill for a woman who needed one to hang some pictures when she moved (back in my blue-pill days, I wanted to fuck her) but I wouldn't buy her a christmas or birthday present EVER. That sort of thing.

I also had no idea you came to the Red Pill through religion. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Chairborne

I also had no idea you came to the Red Pill through religion. Interesting.

Church women, dude. I was about to say "are the worst", but truth is they are all the worst.

The women all want to be with a pastor. They are looking for that smiley, firm-handshaked, look you right in the eye, confident leader type. Oh, and tall. I almost forgot: shiny shoes, and tall.

There were two churches I knew of that had a faith man at the helm. Real man of God. Men with vision, who, by the power of the Holy Spirit, were really going to take this city for Jesus. Their churches collapsed (years apart) because they fucked up the money. And you want to know what became of those two gentlemen?

They each became used car salesmen.

Each of 'em had a horde ("whorede" - tee hee hee) of women hunting them down when they were single. These men were the female-approved exemplars of what a man should be. But what kind of men were they? Take away their churches, and what do their natural talents best suit them for?

Selling used cars.

It just - it says so much. And more, it's just so consistent with everything else. The omega male of the social group just can't help noticing certain things.

Knew you had to have something in your past for you to turn out the way you did. Thanks for sharing.

The old man saved me from a similar fate, he made mom quit taking me to church when I was six or seven. Have to say they overplayed their hand, going on and on about sin and guilt. At age six I hadn't so much as stole a handful of cookies. Ignorant I was, sinful I was not. I have sometimes wondered how I would of come out if the old bastard hadn't spoken up. After hearing your story I'm glad I never found out. Your a good one, Mr. Wombat.

Wow, Romans 7 IS batshit insane. Damn, I'm going to have to read that one again.

I have heard that churches in USA have become "worship places of single women". The good mangina pastor helps such kind of woman to find a "nice guy of God" to marry her.

Well, if this is true, I can say that in Brazil we have churches and pastors that are experts in this bullshit. By the way, some days ago I have read an article in Return Of King speaking about something like this:

http://www.returnofkings.com/58974/u...they-marry-you

And I can say more: I was raised as Protestant but I became agnostic before my teens. And 9 years ago I started reading about ancient religions and I became Pagan.

But the problem is: most Pagans here are Wiccans (and most Wiccans here are freak feminists that think they are Hermiones and their effeminate manginas). And I see that the same happens in other countries. I still can have a good talk with them but I realized that such gynocentric religion of witches was not what I believed in. There are some Heathens here too, but they are rare in Rio (there are more of them in cities of Southern brazilian States among Italian and German descendants). But happily, I can find good infos through the internet to confront the femiwitches' bullshits.

So I can also say I found the Red Pill because of religion.

Originally Posted by Primus_Pilus

Wow, Romans 7 IS batshit insane. Damn, I'm going to have to read that one again.

Reading what Paul *actually* wrote, as opposed to what we were all taught he wrote, "sin" is this kind of taint that we physically inherit from Adam, residing in our physical bodies ("the members of my flesh"). Our bodies and our "self" are quite separate, which is why we get this weird and inexplicable phenomenon where we do bad things even though we don't want to be doing them. So because sin is just this stuff in our bodies, when we sin it's not really ourselves doing it, it's the sin in us doing it. For this reason, if we sin we are not condemned by it (there is therefore now no condemnation …). The "hope" of christianity is that one day we will get fresh, new bodies without this taint, and we will no longer have to live at war with the sinful urges of our carnal and corruptible bodies.

It's so transparently an excuse for going right on doing the sin even though you are supposed to be a christian now, that Paul (or possibly some other author) had to clumsily tack on a rider explaining that actually no - you aren't supposed to go right on sinning when you are a christian.

Paul obviously couldn't keep his hand off it (or whatever), felt bad about doing that, and invented christianity to make it ok.

It is kind of like warfare to fight your primal urges when you know those urges could lead to disaster. Many guys just give in and get their nuts handed to them in a pretty little satchel that used to say "Protector Provider Husband and Father". Now that satchel says "Oprressor Asshole Rapist Misogynist" and at least the first one recognized the sacrifices made to fulfill those roles. The second is what you get even though you are still expected to fulfill them. How fucked up is that? So I can see how some could relate to what Paul meant as far as that. His sexual desire (or whatever personal thorn in the flesh he was referring to) was a part of who he was yet his deeper spiritual self knew it leads to shitbrick road so he had to fight/war with his biological programming. The lifestyle I could have is too gross for me to even contemplate yet the urge to pursue it is very strong. In the end we have to decide what we choose to submit to. Our basest desires or going without for whatever each man's reason for doing so is. Ok, I feel like I'm crazy now.

I realize this is an older post, but I just had to comment. I, too, had a very similar background, but as a Jehovah's Witness. For me, finally understanding that the JW way of life and it's beliefs wasn't the "truth," as I had been raised to believe, was very much a red pill moment. I should probably post my own story somewhere...

It's almost suprising to me just how many others have had their own red pill moments when understanding the real world vs. their original religious beliefs. Very fascinating..

Thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by MrWTF

I realize this is an older post, but I just had to comment. I, too, had a very similar background, but as a Jehovah's Witness.

Jay-Dubs! The great pyramid marketing scam.

As I understand, it works like this:

There are only just so many of the good seats in heaven. To get one of the good seats, you need to be a witness for Jehovah. What that actually means is that you must hand out many, many publications of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to people. Publications that you purchase via your local bishop.

Of course, they tell you that you are buying these at cost price. But you'll discover that the quickest way to get yourself not only disfellowshipped but sued for copyright infringement is to go down to a local print shop, find out how much it really costs to print out a pallet load of tracts on rag paper, and have them print it out. More than one clueless JayDub has tried this, and has protested "but, isn't it about saving the lost?" as the inevitable ton of bricks falls on him.

The truth is that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society make their publications with free labour, are positively raking it in, and that the bishops get a cut of the action.

I do not understand how reading Romans 7-8 would have affected you so profoundly. Could you explain? If that is not too personal a request.

......

Originally Posted by chbedok

I do not understand how reading Romans 7-8 would have affected you so profoundly. Could you explain? If that is not too personal a request.

Read post #12. There was a great deal more than that, but it was the final straw.

Love your intro man. I rejected religion early in the same way and almost exact process, physically and mentally, with the exception of being raised Baptist and of seeing women through red lenses in it; I moreso saw all these people trying to rationalize fear of death and just being foolish.

We are very similar, you and I, in that you feel that you have to understand, it disgusted you that such an important thing as life philosophy and belief in god were talked about on the level of the slowest runner, and a few others. Perhaps the personality type is to blame?
Cheers