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  1. #1

    Need some advice

    Hey guys, I'd appreciate some advice in a situation that I find myself in.

    I met a girl about a year ago, let's call her T, through mutual friends. She moved in next door to them, and they became friendly. So, I've seen a lot of her over the past year.

    T and I immediately hit it off. She is an engineer, like myself, so I suppose we have some things in common with regards to the way we think. When we socialize as a group, T and I tend to spend a lot of time together. It just happens that way.

    I know you don't know someone until they stab you in the back, but T seems like an incredibly nice person. I've never seen her angry, or make a bad remark about someone. She is probably the most light hearted person I've ever met, always joking around. Her parents are still married and she has a good relationship with both of them. She lives in her own flat. She does a lot of exercise and keeps herself in shape. She is 25, I am 30.

    Nothing has ever happened between us. I've never worked up the nerve to do anything. Some nights I really want to make a move, and some nights, I don't. One night, I did sort of try to make a move, but because I got nothing back from her side, I gave up. I mean, we were dancing next to each other, and I put my arm around her, and she didn't move away, but she didn't reciprocate. So I was like, oh well. But earlier in the evening, she took my hand so I would spin her around.

    What holds me back? There is one reason that I understand and can articulate, and another reason I don't quite understand.

    The reason that I understand is that there are prettier girls than her. As I said, she is in good shape. God I feel bad even writing this about her! But what worries me that, if we started dating, what would happen if I came across a prettier girl? I'd feel guilty for wanting her physically. I know that everyone in a relationship will occasionally see someone more physically attractive than their partner, but I guess its really the guilt I don't want. I've dated far less attractive women.

    One thing I have realized about myself, is that for whatever reason, those pretty girls are beyond my grasp. It just will never happen. For a while, I kept saying to myself, that if I lost weight, gained muscle, gained game, gained confidence, that I could get those pretty girls. The really high HB ones. But I've realized, there is just no chance. I don't know why. I don't know what is wrong with me. I feel like I'm missing a piece of myself, but its too late. I'm 30 now, and I don't think I'm going to become a casanova - ever. So, I'm trying to tell myself that looks dont matter, and that a good relationship would make me far more happy. But, the guilt still worries me.

    The obvious question at this point is - why pursue a relationship at all? Especially given things that we normally discuss on this site. I'm not adverse to a relationship, in fact I think I would like one, if I could find the right girl. I just don't have any time for relationships in which the woman belittles or abuses her man. I won't stand for any games or anything like that. And I will say, this girl is nothing like what I have heard of American women. If she is a feminist, she keeps quiet about it.

    The reason I don't understand is that sometimes I'm not sure if I am attracted to her, and I don't mean physically. I mean the whole package. Its like, I know I would be jealous if she started dating someone else. All the same, I'm not always sure that I want to date her myself. Or that I want her sexually. I really really like her, but I dont always know if I want to screw her. I don't really fantasize about her, for instance.

    I think this is what confuses me more. When I'm around her, I always want to spend time with her. But I don't always feel sexual desire towards her, which confuses me. Maybe it is because we have got to know each other better, the attraction is still there, but the fire has died down? Not to say it cannot be rekindled. I can't remember what it was like when I first met her. I do remember being defensive because I was still processing the red pill. But I remember liking her instantly.

    Would appreciate any advice here. She really is the kind of girl that you take home to meet your parents, and I don't know if I'm being a complete idiot for not making a move.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Malinois's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Hellinois, USA

    Re: Need some advice

    You're already wrapped around her finger...You've already invested emotionally, or you wouldn't be jealous if she dated someone else...

    Sounds like you're having some one-itis...

    Also, think of worst case scenarios...She's friends with your friends...Best case scenario might be a FWB, just don't forget AWALT!

    I've read your story and agree with much of your contributuions here. I'd hate to hear that you went through all of the shit again...

    Maybe this is the one...The one that helps you finish swallowing that red pill...

    Every one of us has had to learn the hard way...And, occasionally, we need to reinforce our beliefs by experience...

    I wish you luck, whichever you choose.

  3. #3
    Senior Member YourTipOfTheDay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Midwest, US

    Re: Need some advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Malinois View Post
    Sounds like you're having some one-itis...

    I agree with Mal. It's extremely dangerous to get this invested in a woman you're not even with. You probably would have been much better off if you had just dated her originally and not pined for her all this time.

    From where I'm looking, it appears you have to choices:

    Choice A) Pursue a relationship/date with her, which may or may not even happen since you don't appear to be clear about the way she feels about you. Chances are if it's been a year or some extended period of time and she has not tried to make a move whether overt or covert isn't a good sign in my opinion.

    Choice B) Avoid her for an extended period of time and go out and get laid. Call girl, casual hook up/ONS, or just start dating another women. If you feel that getting your rocks off isn't necessary for you to abstain from thinking about and resist being around that woman, then by all means just avoid her and don't do anything else. You can even explain to your friends if they're close to you and understanding the situation.
    Some people just need space to get over someone, and it may take weeks, months or even years before you're able to be around them again without having those old feelings resurrected. For me, I usually need either years or to just start dating someone else to fully let those feelings go and be able to hang around the girl I was previously one-itis with and genuinely not care about her anymore in that way and just be able to be friends with her.

    If you choose option A, I would just caution you because you already seem to be really enamored with her and you know what they say, "Whoever loves the least in a relationship holds all the power" and to me it sounds like she would hold all the power over you. Don't let her do that.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014

    Re: Need some advice

    One night, I did sort of try to make a move, but because I got nothing back from her side, I gave up. I mean, we were dancing next to each other, and I put my arm around her, and she didn't move away, but she didn't reciprocate. So I was like, oh well. But earlier in the evening, she took my hand so I would spin her around.
    Jesus - simply being touched by this person is a major life event for you. Code Blue for MrBlue - he's in critical condition.

    -- EDIT -- This is a fine example of one of the tragedies of being a man. Women live in a world of touches and hugs and social kisses. A man can go for years - years! - with no more contact with another human being than the occasional handshake. Skin hunger, simply being starved for touch, is a thing.

    -- EDIT2 -- Did you sniff your hand afterwards, just to whiff some of those short-chain fatty acids? Didn't think of it? Lost opportunity, then.

    The reason that I understand is that there are prettier girls than her. As I said, she is in good shape.
    Stop. Have you ever seen her in full makeup and dressed to kill? No? Then you don't know just how pretty she is. Go review those pictures of porn stars with and without makeup.

    If she is in decent shape, if she is not a lardass, then she is getting regular cock. Ok? Look that truth in the face and accept it. This person, at least once a month (but more likely a few times a week) is impaling her self on some other guy's boner. She's getting some. No question about it. And she's getting it of some guy that you, mate, don't know about. The reason you don't know about that side of her is that women compartmentalise their lives. They have friends for this, and friends for that. You are not her friend for that.

    The reason I don't understand is that sometimes I'm not sure if I am attracted to her, and I don't mean physically. I mean the whole package. Its like, I know I would be jealous if she started dating someone else. All the same, I'm not always sure that I want to date her myself. Or that I want her sexually. I really really like her, but I dont always know if I want to screw her. I don't really fantasize about her, for instance.
    You say you're 30. Maybe I believe it, but God do you ever sound like a 14-year-old here. Or a chick. I kinda sympathise, I suppose: I too in my 30's made a fool of myself over a 20-something. This person told me she was not interested, and I did not get the message.

    Look - I have no life experience on how to get out of the friend zone. All I know is that the friend zone has two exits - she has the key to one, and you have the key to the other. You have to put the hard word on this chick, and if she wont put out for you (again: I promise you that she is putting out for someone) cease contact.

    As to how to go about this - fuck, don't ask me. And frankly, I think you are wasting your time.

    1) If a woman is sexually interested in you, she will come on to you. This girl hasn't come on to you. (A -> B) & (~B) => ~A.

    2) Women compartmentalise their lives. Each one is star of her own personal soap opera, and she casts people into roles. Once she has decided what role you are in, whom you are to her, it's pretty much impossible to change roles. Mr Darcy did it, but only when Eliza discovered just how rich "rich as fuck" really was.

    She's 25. She is at the final stages of being as hot as she is ever going to be. Hot enough to make a gibbering fool of you, anyway. And she does not want to fuck you. Get it? She does not actually want to fuck you. If she did, the two of you would be fucking.

    -- EDIT -- If she is smart enough to settle for you, if she is smart enough to see the wall coming, then you are getting left-overs. She gave her best to her Chad Thundercock, and you are left picking through the scraps. Now, maybe you can live with this. The problem is that if she does settle for you, she knows that you are getting left-overs, and for that reason she will never respect you. And all the rest of the stuff that predictably happens will, predictably, happen.

    -- EDIT2 -- "Oh, but she's intelligent, she's an engineer, she won't just follow the usual life script - she's smarter than that!" Aren't you intelligent? Aren't you smarter than that? And yet when it comes to mating behaviour, here you are behaving just like any other fool. Engineer smarts don't make a lick of difference to these instinctive behaviours. She will do exactly what all the AWALTs do, for exactly the same reasons that AWALTs do them, because AWALT. AMALT too - men like you (and me).

    The only thing that I can think of that might get you something out of this sorry mess is: "Hey, T: can you hook me up with a friend?" You need more out of life than a touch of some girl's hand, once, when you cirroc.
    Last edited by Mr Wombat; June 28, 2015 at 10:08 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Eddie Willers's Avatar
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    Feb 2014
    Canadian Prairies

    Re: Need some advice


    I can add nothing but the fact that I behaved that way too, once -- burned to a world of hurt.
    A gun-toting, weed-smoking, gray-bearded redneck with a Masters - old and dangerous.

  6. #6
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014

    Re: Need some advice

    You are getting way ahead of yourself; imagining dating her and still other women. You are not choosing her for life. If you two hit it off, you can see how it goes. If you think other women have more to offer than this one, nothing stops you to pursue her or them.

    It sounds like you're interested in her. Rather than imagining if you want to be serious with this girl, keep it light. Who knows how much time you want with her. Girls today don't want anything serious; even if they have serious jobs.

    Learn Game. Dealing with modern women without game is like walking into a duel without a gun. It's just pointless and you're going to get stonewalled. It's not about learning pick-up lines or "techniques" even. It's more about inner attitudes and perspective on what women respond to. It's "inner game".

    Based on what little you've described, with all respect, I can point out 10 things you did wrong. Always disqualify yourself as a suitor to not give her any pressure. Don't be friends with her if you have other interests. And on and on. The thing with relationships today is its not a given. You have to put in some work to get to the point you can attract and maintain attraction. If you don't want to do any work and want it to be automatic, don't bother. Even if she's the "good girl" you take to your parents, you still have to get her to that point she has a starry eye gaze towards you. That's what life is today for men and courtship.

    There are ways to break the friendship vibe and f*ck her. I've done it. It's usually more work than it's worth - than to simply find a new girl and start from scratch. You've got to commit to it though if you decide to do it. The best way to begin is to NOT put any pressure on yourself on achieving anything. Just go into it with a carefree attitude. Tease her. Don't constantly give her approval, don't always look at her, don't always nod when she talks or go "uh-huh", change the subject occasionally and go back and forth (you lead the conversation), don't always agree with her. Do you understand what I'm saying? You have to break rapport to some degree in order to erase the slate and create sexual tension between you two. Engineering women are no different from the rest in our modern culture. Breaking rapport can feeling fucking awkward but as cruel as it may seem, women actually like it.

    Anyhow, I'm off to grab some dinner so that's all I'll put here. I recommend the following site for Game:
    Last edited by jagrmeister; June 29, 2015 at 3:13 AM.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)

    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  7. #7
    Senior Member TheRecipe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014

    Re: Need some advice

    You should make a move as soon as possible with any woman, it doesn't matter how sweet she seems. If she rejects your advance that's fine because she would have rejected you anyway and wasted a load of your time later down the road.

    You should also have several other women you are actively seeing, you can use these to dread game her or to bang if she dries up.
    Marrying a woman is like taking a shit upside down every day for the rest of your life. Don't do it!

  8. #8
    Member Dubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015

    Re: Need some advice

    - Until you are fucking her, she is literally nothing
    - You can fuck her and then fuck someone prettier
    - You don't have to (and probably shouldn't) marry either of them
    - Do not call a female your "friend" unless you honestly %100 have no intention of ever sleeping with her, failure to heed this will put you in the friendzone.

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