Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    78
    Reputation
    175
    Type
    Ghost

    Loneliness as Liability?

    **My first time to pen a new thread here, very nervous.

    The mainstream imposes upon us a negative connotation for being on one's own. Whether it is the socially inept weirdo doing who-knows-what online in his basement because he is unable to do much IRL, or the confirmed bachelor on his way to that most dreaded of fates, "dying alone." In this thread I hope to provoke a discussion of various aspects of the loner, and the loner's place in social consciousness. Below are some aspects of being alone I have pondered myself, and some prompts which may facilitate discussion. There must be other aspects to this issue, I'd love to see what the group can add.
    1. Semantics/Word Choice


    Noam Chomsky's work on the influence of the mainstream mass media demonstrated how our choice of words can have a profound impact on perceptions. One example he uses is the notion that a US military intervention abroad is inevitably framed as "assistance," where similar actions taken by other states are framed as "invasions." Big difference, right? So if "lonely" or "isolated" were substituted with "independent" and "no strings attached"? Are these things different to one another?

    2.Jealously/Disdain

    My personal circumstances may differ a bit from many on this forum. I live in a large Chinese city (from the US originally). I have resigned myself to both a largely solitary existence and long-term settlement in Asia. I do interact with other expats here, in limited quantity. These guys are mostly American and blue pill as hell. Very cool, trailblazing people in some other ways, but hopelessly blue pill. As time passes and I run into these same guys now and again. (never planned, just happens as a matter of course- only so many venues where one can get food like back home, and these venues are frequented by or operated by these kinds of men) Increasingly these guys see me and there is something they despise. I cannot put my finger on it. I am consistently polite and pleasant so I doubt I've offended anyone with my mannerisms (I'm sure you can imagine my progression from "normal" member of society to MGTOW Monk/Ghost saddled with the liability of such a personality). Aside from the politeness (doomed to attack by such people, who let the mask down to spit snark when confronted with those who are actually pleasant), I suspect there is also resentment that I am not beholden to all their trends and symbols of allegiance to their group and value system.

    A second component of this aspect is the place of the (foreigner, in my case) loner in an Asian society. Yes, people see me on my own and it is noted but I feel most of the assume I have family back home, as it is common for the men here to go far from home for the sake of their careers and leave the family behind. In the city where I live, most are too overwhelmed by the sighting of an exotic Caucasian to ponder my solitude too deeply. But this is the part I find interesting, and hope to explore- in Ralph Ellison's The Invisible Man, the protagonist is pushed over time to a life of monastic solitude. He finds this is more easily realized in a white neighborhood- of course, as a black in those days he is noticed by all at a glance. However, he is kept off their radar by his otherness, his lack of inclusion in and obligation to the society is simply a matter of course. Stands out like a sore thumb yet hiding in plain site. What is the social psychology behind this? I'd love to hear others' thoughts.

    3. Loneliness With and Without Context

    For me, this is the most interesting aspect of all, more philosophical than the others. Many have seen the well known Robin Williams quote around in the manosphere. For those who haven't, I'll repost it here:

    I used to think the worst thing in life is to end up all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone.


    Society paints solitude as an inherently unpleasant and undesired state. We are taught to fear it. If we remove any context and paint solitude solely in terms of how it may be potentially unpleasant, it certainly does seem to be something to avoid. Association with others becomes the end, to be achieved by any means necessary.I am alone the vast majority of my time outside of work- there are moments I yearn for the companionship of others, and the sensation is unpleasant. I pose these questions to the reader: Is unpleasantness to be avoided without question? If I am alone and feel an unpleasant sense of loneliness, would companionship automatically cure this? Are we allowed to question the nature of such companionship, or even compare the net sum of unpleasantness between solitary and social experience?

    Every time I feel an unpleasant sense of loneliness, I wonder about the married man with the kids. Over here, you'd have the grandparents in the household as well. That's enough to make me run. But you wonder about these poor men, these suckers who have bought into the pipe dream- do they not experience unpleasant sensations? What about in my case, with the expat associates I mentioned above. If I subscribed to their social media and hair/tattoo/piercing trends and other herd mentality stuff, would I experience less unpleasantness?

    Please comment if something here catches your interest, I'd love to engage in dialogue on these matters. Also, if you know of related posts/articles, please link/report here, I'd love to read.

  2. #2
    Member UnFucked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    96
    Reputation
    762
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    Hi Max, I'm in a similar situation to you. I'm from the UK and I moved to Spain a few years ago. I never felt like I belonged in the UK, so I had nothing to lose by leaving. I rarely watched TV or took part in community events or played team sports. I work on the internet and all my hobbies are solo, so I have everything I need down here.

    As a foreigner in Spain it is very easy to live a life of solitude. My neighbours leave me alone and let me be. I'm not expected to make small talk. And it helps that it is part of the culture here to respect each other's privacy. Nobody ever bothers me in public. There are plenty of good food shops around and I rotate shopping trips between them so as not to become too familiar to the people working there. I am virtually invisible.

    The thing is, I do actually like people and I have empathy for them. But the closer I get to them, the less I like them. Sooner or later I inevitably come to the conclusion that they are using me for something. When I first moved to this city I made an effort and made a few friends and I found myself in a circle. As time passed they all started to disappoint me in some way or another. Just simple things, for example, if I send someone a message and they don't bother to reply, it hurts. Or those who find a girlfriend and suddenly no longer make any time to see me anymore. And now I have a zero tolerance policy. The past year I have been intentionally pushing them away. I now realize that don't need anybody and most people are not worthy of my time.

    I think that the term "unicorn" to applies to friends as it does to a partner, because the chance of finding a good quality friend who really gives a shit about you is so slim that it is not worth trying. I am lucky that I have one friend in the UK I have known for 15 years since university who I consider a true friend. He actually means it when he asks "How are you?". Still, I can't deny that it is a bit sad that I am in my mid 30s and there is ONE person in this whole world who I can really trust.

    As for loneliness. Discovering MGTOW last year helped me a lot. It made me realize that I was not alone. Since then I have rarely felt lonely. I also keep busy with work and I love my hobbies. I make music and getting positive feedback from strangers on the internet feels good. I also know that if I really feel like connecting with someone, I can just go out to some event and chat to a stranger. There are plenty of tourists here too and they are easy to talk to. The part of me that used to get lonely seems to have disappeared. I thank MGTOW for that.

    > But you wonder about these poor men, these suckers who have bought into the pipe dream- do they not experience unpleasant sensations?

    When I was in a long term relationship, suffering with a bitch that hated me, I didn't feel lonely. In the following 5 years that I have been single, at times I felt lonely. Yet I never want to go back to the hell of being in a relationship. I think that the feeling of lonelines is a result of social pressure and expectations. You could even call it brainwashing. Go back long before the internet and I wonder if people felt that emotion back then. I think that going back even further and being alone would be something to be proud of.

    > If I subscribed to their social media and hair/tattoo/piercing trends and other herd mentality stuff, would I experience less unpleasantness?

    For a while you'd have the illusion of company, so maybe yes. But you'd sooner or later realize that they don't care about you, and they are all themselves just trying to fit in. The world is insane. Most people live in a permanent state of fear and anxiety. To get philosophical I believe that the collective human consciousness is going through turbulence as we try to find a meaning for our existence. I highly recommend the book The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. It helped me to understand human behaviour.

    As for jealousy, I'm not sure. I know what it was like to be in a long term relationship with all the baggage that comes with it. I never felt jealous but I can imagine why people do. A while ago I was with someone who was checking his phone constantly trying to reassure his passive aggressive girlfriend that he'd be home soon, with all the correct ingredients for dinner, because he is already half an hour late and he knows he's got some serious explaining to do when he gets in. He also knows I'm going home to put my feet up and kill a few of hours on my playstation, and eat what I want. When I think about it, he probably resents the hell out of me. But on the other hand, society teaches him to pity people like me. I have also experienced that situation where I have been rejected from a group since I am different and do things my own way. I never understood this, why people take such exception to people who live their life however they want. Maybe it is jealousy. "Why should he be allowed to get away with being like that when I have to put so much effort into fitting in?".

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    78
    Reputation
    175
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    Thanks for sharing and for the book recommendation.

    A couple points I especially appreciate:

    -The notion that in addition to true romantic love, true friendship does seem to feel more like a fruitless search for that unicorn over time. I am a teacher and as summer holiday is approaching. I was asked by a school admin to provide a contact number for someone I'd be around during the break. I struggled to explain that there was no one. I had what I considered to be two friends here- one moved to another province, one in already back home in the States for his summer holiday. That leaves zero. Its not as if I couldn't just put down a phone number and name for whomever for the sake of ticking the box, but that's not my point. Neither is any loneliness I feel given these circumstances- and I do feel some, though as I discussed in the post above I do not necessarily consider this to be a bad thing. The point is the awkwardness of explaining to someone (an Asian especially, they're so intensely interconnected) that there was no one. Not a one. I'll just need to be swifter on my feet next time and have some bullshit contact ready beforehand.

    -The struggle so many face to fit in, the sacrifices they make- even to the extent of turing their back on their own values. This is amplified among expat populations over here, as the available pool of companions is much more limited. I don't want to give too much away, but the people I had in mind when composing the post above covet fixed gear bicycles, ironic facial hair and one-upping the hipsters back home by being cool hipsters abroad.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,073
    Reputation
    10344
    Type
    Neutral

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    I don't really enjoy being social in general, with a couple exceptions. One is occasional visits with immediate family, and the other is talking about mutual hobbies like music.

    I've met a few true friends over the years, but they all follow this weird pattern like it's a script. We text or email back and forth a couple exchanges, then they ditch me in the middle of a conversation. The guys I consider my best friends all do it, every time. I've given up on trying to figure out what the deal is, so I haven't heard from them as a result.

    I prefer being by myself, social situations make me impatient and bored. It's not an anxiety thing, like "please don't judge me", I just feel like I'm wasting my time. Especially when it comes to partying and drinking situations - I wasted years of my life on that trying to be a cool party guy so I could get laid. All in all, it left me with nothing valuable or lasting.

    I'd be lying if I said that I never feel self-conscious about being alone in public, but it's just the conditioning and peer pressure. I've never felt like there was anything wrong with being so introverted, it's just been a bitch to deal with, and people cannot take a hint.

    In all honesty, lack of male friends doesn't bother me. But I do feel lonely sometimes and by lonely I mean horny, just to get laid, but it's an uphill battle so I don't really bother currently.
    "The hours of folly are measured by the clock; but of wisdom, no clock can measure" - William Blake

    Nuggets = chicken nuggets. First thing that popped into my head when I signed up

  5. #5
    Member xcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    174
    Reputation
    1083
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    I would say that I am living 'parallel' to many other people.

    When in contact with others an invisible countdown timer started. Or it's like water filling up a water tank. When the maximum/limit is reached I have to step out to "refresh" myself. To fully recharge my 'batteries'. This could be living in solitude (with my hobbies/leisure activities, training...) for the whole weekend.

  6. #6
    Member UnFucked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    96
    Reputation
    762
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
    I wasted years of my life on that trying to be a cool party guy so I could get laid. All in all, it left me with nothing valuable or lasting.
    Consider yourself lucky that your broke free from that. In my city, virtually everybody is perpetually trapped in that phase chasing after something they will never get. I completely quit drinking alcohol about a year ago, and it was not long after that that I discovered MGTOW. I soon began to see the world with new eyes. This place just looks like a human circus now. The people out there partying do not look happy. They look desperate, plagued with desire and jealousy. I used to be like that, so I understand what they feel like. And they see me, completely sober and without a care in the world, and they can't understand how I can be like this. I can sense it. It's like I'm giving off an aura like I am some kind of higher being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
    I'd be lying if I said that I never feel self-conscious about being alone in public, but it's just the conditioning and peer pressure.
    I used to be like that. MGTOW did something amazing for me. It took that part of me that gave a fuck, and inverted it. I am now PROUD to be out in public alone. It says something; that you are a person who doesn't need other people like a crutch.

    ...

    And now I am going to say something philosophical that may come across as arrogant or even ridiculous... But those of us who have unplugged from society, and have overcome our biological desires, are by definition, evolving above and beyond an animal existence. We are the pioneers of the next stage of human consciousness. We may in fact be the most important people in the world. Not the technologists creating nanotransistors or quantum computers. But regular people spreading new ideas that can seemingly solve the complexities and endless frustrations of modern life overnight. The fact that once you wake up, you can never go back, shows that this shit is real. It's like we have found a path forward and if this message spreads far enough I can honestly see it changing the world.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2,073
    Reputation
    10344
    Type
    Neutral

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnFucked View Post
    Consider yourself lucky that your broke free from that. In my city, virtually everybody is perpetually trapped in that phase chasing after something they will never get. I completely quit drinking alcohol about a year ago, and it was not long after that that I discovered MGTOW. I soon began to see the world with new eyes. This place just looks like a human circus now. The people out there partying do not look happy. They look desperate, plagued with desire and jealousy. I used to be like that, so I understand what they feel like. And they see me, completely sober and without a care in the world, and they can't understand how I can be like this. I can sense it. It's like I'm giving off an aura like I am some kind of higher being.
    I also totally quit alcohol - for me it's been a couple months. The weird part is that I did it out of boredom. I've never liked alcohol, I've just liked being drunk - huge difference. But even that got boring and it just seemed like a huge waste of time past a certain point. I feel zero temptation to drink alcohol now, I'd rather have a soda. That might sound like something people just say, but I mean it 100%. I know soda is a vice, but at least with soda there's no chugging down 5 cans in a sitting, I just have 1 with a meal and I'm good.

    I don't get "having a beer" now, it just doesn't sound like a refreshing beverage. Why would I drink something I don't even like the taste of, just because it's a socially approved activity? Drinking 5 beers, on the other hand, would get me a solid buzz, but I started to hate that sloppy feeling of drunkenness. It's hard to explain - it's just such an inferior substance compared to weed, which I enjoy from time to time. It's so hard to find a sweet spot when binge drinking. If I get that perfect buzz, it lasts a couple hours at best, then it's downhill, and I would've felt better just not drinking at all. There's no buzz from one or two beers, so why drink at all? For the taste?

    It's really amusing to me how it's this whole ordeal now. I can't just turn down a drink and have it be left at that, it's gotta turn into this huge thing. I don't mind, I just tell them the truth, I got bored with alcohol. But I don't push anything on people, I don't wanna be that guy, if they wanna drink they can go right ahead, like I said before I enjoy a soda more. It's just weird when you think about it - nobody feels compelled to give me a hard time because I prefer burgers over steaks, but with alcohol it's always this ordeal.

    MGTOW really is a gift - I struggle with vices and bad habits like everyone else, but at some point I always pull through. I know that I can change myself because I've done it before. I'm not just gonna be sitting around going "could-a should-a would-a". Not for me.

    You're right on when you say "desire and jealousy" - half of the college party scene is just dumb, pointless drama. You can't simply go and have a good time. Nope, there's always gotta be some he said she said bullshit going on in the background. It's exhausting.
    "The hours of folly are measured by the clock; but of wisdom, no clock can measure" - William Blake

    Nuggets = chicken nuggets. First thing that popped into my head when I signed up

  8. #8

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    At one time, I was quite social. I took classes in stand up comedy and performed at some of the local clubs just for fun. I made my living as a salesman who was gregarious and quick on my feet. As I got older, I got tired of the game. I got tired of entertaining people and quite frankly, putting up with their nonsense. One by one, I cut off my friends. Technology makes this easy. I just put their phone numbers and email into a 'kill file' and that was that.

    Last week I spent the day at a local art museum by myself and it was wonderful. I now pursue my interests without discussing them with anyone. I don't have to explain what I enjoy; I simply amuse myself. Is loneliness a liability? No. It's wonderful

  9. #9
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,808
    Reputation
    15628
    Type
    enigmatic

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkman View Post
    At one time, I was quite social. I took classes in stand up comedy and performed at some of the local clubs just for fun. I made my living as a salesman who was gregarious and quick on my feet. As I got older, I got tired of the game. I got tired of entertaining people and quite frankly, putting up with their nonsense. One by one, I cut off my friends. Technology makes this easy. I just put their phone numbers and email into a 'kill file' and that was that.

    Last week I spent the day at a local art museum by myself and it was wonderful. I now pursue my interests without discussing them with anyone. I don't have to explain what I enjoy; I simply amuse myself. Is loneliness a liability? No. It's wonderful
    I find this interesting about you. Your transition. Many people go, or seek to go, in the opposite direction.

    To be a good comedian, I've always figured one has to be sharply observant. Perhaps you saw too much of human nature. Well, I think you said as much.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  10. #10
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,656
    Reputation
    16995
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkman View Post
    At one time, I was quite social. I took classes in stand up comedy and performed at some of the local clubs just for fun. I made my living as a salesman who was gregarious and quick on my feet. As I got older, I got tired of the game. I got tired of entertaining people and quite frankly, putting up with their nonsense. One by one, I cut off my friends. Technology makes this easy. I just put their phone numbers and email into a 'kill file' and that was that.

    Last week I spent the day at a local art museum by myself and it was wonderful. I now pursue my interests without discussing them with anyone. I don't have to explain what I enjoy; I simply amuse myself. Is loneliness a liability? No. It's wonderful
    Yes this is all true.

    Amused mastery of yourself to make others around you feel good is a small stepping stone to greater things. Amused mastery of self and doing it alone is really powerful.

    You no longer fear your own thoughts, you do not view your plans as illogical or abnormal. But you flip the script and say this is fun, and I am having a good time going solo

    Worth every penny.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    78
    Reputation
    175
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: Loneliness as Liability?

    I feel you are on to something with the higher level evolution idea. Leaving a bit more of the nonsense behind and getting on to matters of greater significance.


Similar Threads

  1. True forced loneliness
    By chbedok in forum Lounge
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: March 7, 2017, 2:52 PM
  2. How do you deal with the loneliness when it hits?
    By alcockell in forum For Ghosts
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: October 18, 2015, 6:59 PM
  3. Dealing with loneliness
    By KingofWisdom in forum For Ghosts
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: July 5, 2015, 12:08 PM
  4. What do you do when the loneliness hits?
    By alcockell in forum Lounge
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: August 25, 2014, 1:59 PM
  5. Replies: 14
    Last Post: June 25, 2014, 4:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •