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  1. #1
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Post Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    There are times when uninformed observers comment on MGTOW in a way that is bereft of judgment. It is typically a glib remark that wholly misunderstands what MGTOW is about. But when it is repeated ad nauseum, I need to say something. In this case, it goes something like "Well, I'm fine if people want to be MGTOW. But if they were truly going their own way, why do they need to talk about it all the time online."

    This observation stems from a total misunderstanding of MGTOW. Here's what is happening: they interpret the acronym literally - as men entirely disconnecting from society and other human beings. A very simplistic assessment of what MGTOW is, and one that is fundamentally wrong.

    MGTOW does not mean living a solitary life in a Unabomber shack. However, MGTOW is not a movement. It's not an organization or a group. So, then what is it.........?

    MGTOW is awareness
    .

    It is an awareness that something is very wrong with women today, for reasons we discuss, and that, in response, a man can live a fulfilling life by bucking social norms, defining his sense of self-worth in his own terms (a measure uninfluenced by "success" with women), and pursuing his life goals and interests fully without the compulsion to spend handfuls of time searching a for a "soul mate" that likely doesn't exist in the age of feminism. From this awareness, a culture or lifestyle develops. That is what we discuss. What shape does the culture take? It varies as widely as the participants but includes things like "What is an ideal travel destination for a bachelor?" or sharing ideas on male hobbies or discussing ideal sexual strategy for men in this camp- economizing female options through Recreational Game. MGTOWs are a unique breed- we are men who are unattached and uninterested in becoming attached. As such, we have unique preferences. We're neither interested in Disneyland travel packages set up for families, nor are we necessarily interested in all the standard "tips for single people" that are dispensed on sites for men that are about how to dress the right way to attract a woman. We discuss the topics one would if one's life was unencumbered by mothers-in-laws or arguing over who drives the kids to day care -- philosophy, books, comedy, movies, filing patents, surf trips, lazy weekends. Unlike married men, we actually get to watch movies we enjoy, not whichever movie can you can negotiate your wife to also watch. So we go deeper into these areas. To be fair to our critics, much of this living happens offline - something our critics can't see (and therefore lazily don't mentally process) and therefore they focus only on the discussions we have online - which they myopically assume is the totality of our existence.

    To recap, critics mistakenly believe that MGTOW is leaving society and everyone else behind, whereas in reality it is about disregarding society's pressure that a man needs a woman. When we make that singular decision, a different life follows. Though we are all different and take our own path, there is plenty of intersection because we all got off the same off-ramp. And there is much we can share and learn from each other. Society is set up for people who follow the default life script. That is why there are tons of service providers, travel planning, HR policies for men with families; there are tons of dating/adventure travel options for singles (I use "singles" in terms of men who are unattached but looking to get attached), bars for single people to meet up, dating sites, magazines for young men who are interested in overpaying for the right sunglasses that women are into. When you ignore this life script, you necessarily live an alternative lifestyle- and that requires discussion in order to best navigate it because there aren't well worn contours. We are building that lifestyle and culture thorough our investigations and then sharing it with the wider community.

    For lurkers, here's my "cartoon drawing" example if it's not clear by now. Let's say you broke with a social norm. Let's say you decided to only eat breakfast every meal of the day. Society is set up to serve steak and sushi for dinner, not omelettes. But if you felt there was nothing AM'ish about bacon and waffles, and it was fitting any minute of the day, you may want to share tips with other breakfast-addicts as to which restaurants actually have breakfast options at 9 PM, what places have the best syrup, etc. You would have to talk about it because the standard mainstream restaurant review sites like Yelp largely wouldn't.

    There is one more thing. In addition to trading notes on the MGTOW lifestyle, a key reason MGTOWs congregate is to examine the world as it is, women as they are, relationships as they've become. This is important because we're just about the only men who can objectively observe the descent of female behavior, due to feminism, because we're just about the only men who've tamed our sexual instinct. All other men are either too consumed by their sex drive to fault women (PUAs), following their sex drive into a bad decision (blue pillers) or trying to rationalize the bad decision they already made (guy with GF, married man). What our well-meaning but confused observers call 'complaining' is explaining. The culture is the water we swim in. Even if we ignore its dictates, feminist talking points find their way into everything from movie plot lines to signs at work. We observe, critique, and minimize the negative influence of an often ridiculously biased culture against us. MGTOWs are observers of culture; and its this keenly observant nature that allowed us to see the off-ramp from mainstream idiocy. We continue to keep our eyes open; that's the only way to navigate a world where 90% of the people (men and women) around us are sleepwalking with blue-pill feminist programming running through their minds.

    If you ever see someone who asks "Hurr Durr, why do MGTOWs feel a need to have a community and talk about it online", send them here .

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).
    *If you're on Twitter, follow me: MGTOW_Jagr

  2. #2
    Senior Member toolate's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

    Robert Frost

  3. #3
    Senior Member jso's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    four people are in a room. two people leave the room and end up in the hallway. are they congregating?

  4. #4

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Considering MGTOW is more philosophy than movement, it is more wise to share certain observations and ideas with those that won't attack you for it, no matter the norm's standards of being politically correct.
    In the end, I will always prefer to walk alone, simply because I enjoy the peace and freedom of my free will. -Me

  5. #5
    Senior Member bob's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Because what else is supposed to show up when some poor bastard Googles "why is my wife a crazy bitch" or "are all women assholes"?
    "Every woman is an engine of lies powered by a core of raw reproductive need"
    - Octavian

    "All women have done the last 40 years is to prove men were right for the last 40 generations." - Primus_Pilus


    AWALT may not be literally true - but it's the only safe working assumption.

  6. #6

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    For me it's all about considering the world from another point of view. I don't agree with everything that is said on these forums.

    However, for every given topic, I set aside my preconceptions and possible prejudice in order to fairly deconstruct the issue.

    The amount of times my eyes have been opened to the reality of many situations I have either experienced in the past or in observe in the present are now innumerable.

  7. #7
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Good post Jagr. If all you see is what we post on the forum, you'll think that all we do is post on forums. BS. In the last five days I:

    1. wrote music with some buddies in a jam band
    2. trained with the Army reserves
    3. played some computer games
    4. hung out at the pub with some friends
    5. went shooting out in the country, zeroed some optics
    6. cleaned my firearms, and modified one of my rifles
    7. worked 40 hours
    8. slept 35 hours
    9. played a game of Dungeons and Dragons
    10. browsed a forum for gun nuts
    11. did some facebooking
    12. went for two walks each day
    13. did some mild cardio
    14. browsed and posted at goingyourownway.com


    The only activity that incorporates other MGTOW was the last one. It's totally disingenuous to imply that I'm 'congregating' when it's the only forum where I can discuss certain issues without social ostracization. Even the buddies in my band don't know I'm MGTOW, nor even know what MGTOW means. They're assuring me I'll find the right woman eventually, blah blah blah. Fair enough. But I come here to enjoy discussion once in a while, not "need(ing) to talk about it all the time"
    Who's Chairborne? Office worker & Army Reservist, into electronic music, drummer in a jam band, table-top RPGs, bicycling, X-country skiing, biathlon & marksmanship, TV-free for 15 years.

  8. #8

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Chairborne, if you were in Houston, we would hang!

  9. #9
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Hell ya Dr!
    Who's Chairborne? Office worker & Army Reservist, into electronic music, drummer in a jam band, table-top RPGs, bicycling, X-country skiing, biathlon & marksmanship, TV-free for 15 years.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Northman's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    In any aspect of society if you don't toe the line and follow the herd mentality you become "that guy".Peer pressure is one of the best driving forces ever invented.
    From what you wear,purchase and think there is someone somewhere trying to push you down that path of obediance.
    To do what we do raises the ire of many a soul who wish they had the spine to throw off the yoke of conformity and do what they choose with their life.

    It's amusing to watch in day to day life all the little knights trying to fit that glass slipper under those cankles.Well you carry on good sir,hope you get your just reward.it shoud not cost you too much.
    i'll just continue being "that guy"

  11. #11

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    I've noticed this as well. People who challenge me on not wanting to find a new 'soul mate' or another 'the one' have stated that it's 'fine' if I don't want to do that. How magnanimous of them. They even go so far as to tell me that they do respect my right to choose what I want for my life. How especially wonderful it is for them to think I need or want their validation. But they will 'approve' and then tell me about being lonely later on, or dying alone. They get upset when I tell them my most lonely times were living with my ex wife. They get very upset when I tell them "We all die alone".

    Some have even gone so far as to concede defeat as far as 'the standard life script' not being for me. They then tell me that I can choose to do what I want but I don't have to talk about it. The final indignation is when I point out that they pressed the point, and I only told them the truth. They dislike my follow up question. Would you prefer that I lie to you? No one I have encountered (being asked) appreciates that question.

    I freely admit that I chose to continue the conversation and I could have chosen not to engage, but in some cases, ceding the conversation also is surrendering the argument and allowing them to believe that they are right and I am wrong. While this doesn't matter at times, sometimes it does. Sometimes one can not just end the discussion as it will affect other situations. Some people can not be left with false impressions of who you are, what you want and what you choose. It's nuanced on when you have to deal with these confrontations with people in your life, but they are sometimes necessary.
    ---(and that's the key - there are some people present in one's life and they may also have a need to understand things from your perspective) Sometimes it's because you need them to. In rare moments (for me) it's because they deserve to.

    If these people think you are lonely and have misconceptions about who you are and what you want and how you make the choices for yourself in your life (post divorce for me), then they will never relent unless they understand. Sometimes that understanding is painful because they wind up questioning their own life choices and sometimes they have serious issues with their personal choices. When they do think about these things, they can perceive they are under attack because their advice, based on their choices and acceptance of a standard and accepted societal life script (validated, homogenized and approved) is called into question.

    Their own questioning of their lives becomes an attack from you because you had to go and talk about it. How dare you make someone consider an alternative they were happy to blindly accept which they now have to think about because you could not just keep your mouth shut.

    Asking me not to talk about it is just another form of censorship for others to avoid facing reality. They can put their fingers in their ears and shake their heads and say they can't hear me all they wish, but the fault does not lie with me because the problem is theirs.

    What is their problem? A lack of vision and consideration of themselves, and others, when it comes to choices about how to live one's life. I've made my decisions. If they have a problem with their own choices because of my own, it is up to them to resolve their issue(s) for themselves. The blame can not be placed on others no matter how hard they may try.
    Last edited by Demosthenes; March 15, 2014 at 4:53 PM.

  12. #12

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairborne View Post
    :9. played a game of Dungeons and Dragons
    I missed my school days when we had like 12 people playing AD&D, and this was back when we used the 2nd ed. Ah~ Good times.

    MGTOW is awareness - I can attest to this. I also think MGTOW goes a bit further than that. MGTOW is making informed life decisions, because like another thread was discussing, there are men who are aware what's wrong with women but they simply dismiss the problem with NAWALT and 'that's just how women are' excuses.

    I respond to that by saying "that's bullshit and you're an idiot."

  13. #13

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Demosthenes hit the nail on the head on this one. People perceive deviation from what they consider proper as an attack on themselves. That's why they get so worked up about shit that, on the surface of it, doesn't have anything to do with them.

    I would only add one thought. This whole "why are you even talking about it" thing, when used by a feminist, is an attempt at using shaming tactics to prevent the spread of MGTOW ideas. Its not conscious, of course, rather the instinctive female way of controlling males.

  14. #14

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Their own questioning of their lives becomes an attack from you because you had to go and talk about it. How dare you make someone consider an alternative they were happy to blindly accept which they now have to think about because you could not just keep your mouth shut.
    Being confronted with a lifestyle that's different from the norm forces people to review their own quality of life against their will, and that's usually perceived as a threat because their quality of life is usually inferior compared to the alternative.

    "Misery loves company" cleanly explains why singles are hounded to get married and have children.

  15. #15

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    "Well, I'm fine if people want to be MGTOW. But if they were truly going their own way, why do they need to talk about it all the time online."
    Those that say this are scared because some rational part of them understands that by our nature, very few of us choose to participate in forums such as this. The fact that MGTOW even has an Internet presence means MGTOW is huge and a huge threat to the status quo.

  16. #16
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
    Those that say this are scared because some rational part of them understands that by our nature, very few of us choose to participate in forums such as this. The fact that MGTOW even has an Internet presence means MGTOW is huge and a huge threat to the status quo.
    I'd be inclined to agree; For every guy active on a forum, there are an unknown number (presumably many more) who just said "fuck it" and are doing their own thing, who are going their own way in practice even if they've never heard of the acronym MGTOW.

  17. #17

    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    These sorts of comments make the faulty assumption that to be MGTOW you have to join some kind of group or community, which is of course false.

    The MGTOW communities are a subset of MGTOWs, the label describes many more men who behave in MGTOW ways who are simply not interested in discussing the issues and low and behold, they don't discuss them online. Some people either want advice, or a place to vent anger, the sense of community or like myself have an intellectual curiosity in various MGTOW topics, why it exists, how this might all play out in the future.

    But then these sorts of observations of MGTOWs don't stem from genuine curiosity of phenomenon, they stem from emotion and a dislike of the idea that some men can't be manipulated and must be shamed back into line, it's a rookie mistake when dealing with MGTOWs as we're used to shaming tactics and can spot them a mile away.

  18. #18
    Senior Member FapMaster's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairborne View Post
    I'd be inclined to agree; For every guy active on a forum, there are an unknown number (presumably many more) who just said "fuck it" and are doing their own thing, who are going their own way in practice even if they've never heard of the acronym MGTOW.
    totally agree with this. I was ghosting forever before I even heard the term. You see it all the time in the intros as well. Lot of dudes going it alone.
    No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree. -W. C. Fields
    The courts have no compunction towards fairness these days, and the women who push their agendas, no conscience. -My own self
    My Intro

  19. #19
    Senior Member FapMaster's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rybak87 View Post
    I would only add one thought. This whole "why are you even talking about it" thing, when used by a feminist, is an attempt at using shaming tactics to prevent the spread of MGTOW ideas. Its not conscious, of course, rather the instinctive female way of controlling males.
    Don't couples converse on the best place to take a date? Don't women talk about things to do alone? Hobbies, clothes, lifestyle improvements, food, health, ways to save money? The wimminz chat about all this and more. I personally have heard some good ideas here and am glad they were shared.
    I went my own way for many a year, but it's nice to know there are like-minded folk about.
    No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree. -W. C. Fields
    The courts have no compunction towards fairness these days, and the women who push their agendas, no conscience. -My own self
    My Intro

  20. #20
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Hurr Durr..."If They're going their own way, why do they need to Congregate?"

    After Jagr resurrected this, with a pointer from the VICE article about MGTOW thread - I've moved it to MGTOW 101. This is one of those "basic information about Going Your Own Way" articles that deserve - and need - to be kept close to the top of the pot.

    I've been a proponent of the "MGTOW is a lifestyle" meme, but the lifestyle isn't the root of MGTOW. Awareness is. It's out of that basic awareness - of Society's preoccupation with women's wants and whims, of male disposability, of women's untamed nature, of Feminism run rampant with Big Daddy Government's support - that we reach the understanding and develop the will to turn our backs on the Gynocentric Imperative, and to live for our own sake rather than finding some Cupcake and living, working and striving to "make her haaaaaapppy."

    The Sixties/Seventies feminists used to talk about "consciousness-raising," the kaffeeklatsches and gatherings where they discussed Germaine Greer and the issues of "Women's Lib." I remember one quote from a woman at that time - "Wow, I learned how to hate!" Well, I don't believe "learning how to hate" is fundamental to going your own way - but learning how men are hated in this society is certainly a needed part of our discussion.

    And awareness is the keynote. Awareness is the root of Going Your Own Way.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset


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