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  1. #1
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    guys lie all the time

    i have been learning about lying by meeting guys who lie. the first time i had a close relationship with guys who lie was 5 years ago. one cousin did a little lie, telling me his job at a rope and wire factory. he told me he made things, but he was actually a janitor. the second time, my other cousin was having a long conversation exchanging lies with my friendly acquaintance. they were lying about their family and their jobs for 5-10 minutes, and had no other conversation.

    these two examples were based on defined conversations. i was able to understand or accept the people and their behavior. i had a context for these guys based on our friendships. i was looking at the limitations of those two conversations; they weren't hurting anyone. the following lies were not limited by subject, circumstance, or personal understanding:

    a long time ago, i met a 50 year old man who told me about lying to strangers in public. i was thinking he was a prankster and anomalous.

    recently, i met a guy in my town. i started talking to him. he was alone in public, walking. i was starting a conversation based on our similarities; we are both 20-30 males doing personal things during traditional school and work hours. i was exercising. he began talking about me exercising. he was lied about his motivations to exercise; ending the conversation by making a simple contradictory comment about his desire to exercise, and using his tone and inflection to emphasize his lie.

    i don't know if many guys lie because they want privacy. i suspect many lies are expressions of social competition for dominance, like an animal. i'm disappointed, because i have always thought people have a more narrow and defined range of limitations and behaviors.

    i understand morality based on reciprocity and empathy, but some behaviors seem to defy those rules. i have made a lot of progress identifying and accepting other people and their behaviors. hopefully, this will help me do the same for lying.

    the more i know about people, the less i want to talk to them. i am surprised, because i used to think the best people were social people. also, i was encouraged to think these things. now, my personal social experience and my knowledge of human and animal nature supports the conclusion that the best behavior avoids interacting with other creatures.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    Took me many, many years to work out that lying is simply a normal part of social interaction. That ordinary social conversation is not about telling the truth, but about being entertaining. Related to this is "flaking". It seems to be the case that any sort of commitments made in casual conversation are simply not binding and just plain don't count.

    I asked a dude with a scottish accent, once, what "havering" was in the Proclaimers song '500 miles'. He told me that it's "you know, when you are talking shit to a woman". You know. It's just normal and accepted. It's what everyone does. Played in a band with a dude who was very facile, very good with women, and eventually I worked out that absolutely nothing that he said was to be believed except when he put on serious face and was talking about money or business.

    And there it is. It's an interaction style that men learn from women, who do it all the time. It is the absence of the virtue that the romans named "gravitas". Social conversation is - for most people - a form of play. Engineering type guys don't get this, living as we do in a world of facts. When people are chatting, interacting, they are playing - just fucking around.

    In terms of PUA, for those MGTOW that still want to have sex, telling harmless social lies is the F-Club secret handshake. It shows that you can be amusing and displays quick-wittedness. Guys who can't lie and carry it off are boring and stodgy.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Eiji's Avatar
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    lying is bad karma....
    "I live in freedom, under my own flag." - Captain Harlock

    "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." - The Doctor, "Remembrance of the Daleks"

    "To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable.. only unexplained." - The Doctor, "Robots of Death"

    "Who am I writing it for? Only the Thought Police will read it before they wipe it out of existence... but there are some things I've just got to say or I cant stay sane." -- Winston Smith, 1984

  4. #4
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    We pretty much have to lie in order to survive.

    Everything we guys do is wrong, so what's the point of telling the truth?

  5. #5
    Member SteelEye's Avatar
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    I once had a nice little chunk of cash saved & took a vacation down South, US. I booked 2 nights at a pretty nice B&B, private hot tubs, pool, & cocktails between 1-3 pm in the afternoon. At the time I worked in maintenance, earning what was a decent living for me, but of course, it was not great by this Country's standards. I was sitting at the bar with 3 other well to do couples with my wife. (at the time, married)

    The conversation started to get to what we all did for work. Among the men there, there were attorneys, an owner of a construction supply distributorship, etc. When it got to my turn, I simply said, "I'm a maintenance man." Everyone got quiet like I just told them I was a leper.

    Incredible. I have found some of the most interesting & honest people just simply being my true self, & never feeling apologetic for it. It has also got me several contract work, now that I'm on my own as a restoration painter.

    I could tell almost straight off when a person is fabricating their vocation, "lying". I don't know what people have to hide. Hell, if they were the Kennedy's or the Bush's, they certainly would not be at that little B & B, no matter how upscale, right? They would be at Kennebunkport, ME. Or at the Kennedy Compound In MA.

  6. #6
    Moderator William Noy's Avatar
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    I don't typically lie. What's the point? I just talk about things I'm enthusiastic about and that's a great conversation right there. Also, I have a reputation for honesty and forthrightness that helps my business. I know how I feel when I'm being lied to and I don't want people feeling that way about me.

    The exceptions to this are:

    1.) My internet profiles are full of misinformation in order to protect my privacy (I don't puff my self up and claim to drive a Ferrari instead of a Dodge; rather I'll say I drive a Mazda or a Chevy).

    and 2.) At cocktail parties women drag me to and where I don't know anyone, I routinely lie about my profession. The reason for this is that if people find out what I do, I inevitably have to fend off people asking either questions I can't answer due to nondisclosure requirements of some of the contract work I do, or questions I would normally charge good money to answer. Also, I usually tell them I'm a historian or some other hobby of mine that could be a profession under the right circumstances; that way, I get to talk about something fun.

    I'll tell you what, though, it really annoys the women I'm with when I do that. Probably because my actual profession is (on paper, anyway) prestigious, and my cocktail-party-persona-profession isn't.
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. --Seneca

  7. #7
    Member SteelEye's Avatar
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    That's actually a good way to keep things confidential, not that you needed my vote. I sometimes ask people I'm with at a gathering, to not disclose that I do several home improvement jobs, because it seems that everyone has something that either wasn't done right, or needs to get done ASAP. Or I simply say I'm totally booked out, which is always the case.

    I get it. Plus, saying an interesting hobby of yours is your secular employment isn't really some vicious lie that distorts what you do, say like me saying I own a large home improvement company that has 50 men. And women getting annoyed is expected, because they like the status that comes with showing you off.

    I worked for a prominent lawyer once that offered to make me a bagel, & coffee, just for coming out on a Saturday to finish off a punch list. i was so shocked, that I never forgot it. That man is and always will be a class act in my book.

  8. #8
    Member Jonitus's Avatar
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    Re: guys lie all the time

    I have a real life, and I have a false life that I've crafted over the years that I can dust off and use in the right situations. I lie to protect my privacy and my sanity. If I don't outright lie (error of commission), then I will be intentionally vague and tell as much of the truth as needed without going into details (errors of omission).


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