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  1. #21

    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Yes. But true immunity to negative external influence requires that the non-effect be immediate, which means that it must take place before any evaluation as to validity of the external influence. Positive, negative, honest, dishonest, ethical, unethical...by the time these have been decided, the influence will have had an effect. Immunity to negative influence, then, comes at the cost of insensitivity to positive corrective external influence. Which is why such an immunity is invariably associated with a mental illness; it results in a widening gulf between reality and perception.

    To put this in perspective, feminists have a high resistance to negative corrective external influence, even when rationally presented. Yet their state is not enviable.

  2. #22

    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visvires View Post
    Yes. But true immunity to negative external influence requires that the non-effect be immediate, which means that it must take place before any evaluation as to validity of the external influence. Positive, negative, honest, dishonest, ethical, unethical...by the time these have been decided, the influence will have had an effect. Immunity to negative influence, then, comes at the cost of insensitivity to positive corrective external influence. Which is why such an immunity is invariably associated with a mental illness; it results in a widening gulf between reality and perception.

    To put this in perspective, feminists have a high resistance to negative corrective external influence, even when rationally presented. Yet their state is not enviable.
    👍👍👍

  3. #23
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    I'd apply a couple principles of stoicism:
    1) Realize where you are on the control spectrum. Do you have complete, partial or no control at all over the situation? If the situation bothers you and you have control over it, change it. If you have partial control over it, change those parts and accept that you cannot change the other parts. If you have no control at all you can only disengage. If disengaging isn't possible, realize that you have no choice but to accept that this is reality and that fighting against it is futile. In fact, fighting it makes it even worse.
    2) Learn to be thankful for what you have. Visualize negative events (getting murdered, losing a limb, losing all your money, your loved ones etc.) on a regular basis. This makes you appreciate what you have and will make you less remorseful/angry should the event actually occur.
    3) This is a psychological trick. When you feel a strong emotion, focus 100% of your attention on it. Continue doing so until the feeling goes away. As feelings are naturally fickle, it usually won't take long. You can take this trick even further by imagining that the feeling originates from a specific point in your body or from a specific object. By that, you "transfer" the feeling and become further detached. What you should not do is start to ask yourself "why am I feeling this way" unless you reach conclusions like "must be the caffeine crash". Usually though you'll find reasons in your life to FEED that emotion and by that not only inviting it to stay, but making it stronger.
    4) 4 is again focus related. Imagine you're a prisoner, rotting away in your own feces. Where do you think your focus should lie? In your pants, feeling the shit between your thighs? No, surely not. Instead, focus on your hands or any other part of your body that is relatively comfortable. Feel the texture of the ground. Notice its roughness. Breathe in the dusty air, try to identify all the smells (well, except shit maybe lol). Focus on your eyes, try to see all the tiny details of all your surroundings. You get the drift.

    Edit: With that being said, no, I don't think it's possible to get 100% control over your internal state in regard to external events. That is, unless you're a born or made psychopath (made through trauma or heavy drug abuse, though for the latter I only have anecdotal evidence)
    Last edited by Aintdealingwithyoshit; October 28, 2015 at 9:35 AM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    I would say no. Human beings experience moods, and often determining what a mood is or finding the root cause for the mood is hard to pinpoint. Not only this, during sleep, we can experience negative states beyond our conscious control. I have often woken in 'A MOOD' that has stayed with me long after starting my day due to some type of nightmare. Mind you, I am a proponent of Murphy's Law, If It can go wrong, it will.

  5. #25
    Senior Member flailer's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Thanks to the OP for the question. and GREAT thanks to the people that answered the question.

    My answer is: No. Not even in death.

    To expand, a little:
    - We all differ. Our view, desires, needs, & response (words, thoughts, actions) all differ.
    - One person's well-meaning words can be taken as a negative by someone else.
    - One gender (yes, of course I went there) has no (or little) problem switching from the emotional moment to the RATIONAL MIND, and back again. The other gender finds this MUCH more difficult.
    - This "other gender" feels like a victim of (their own) emotions, & they don't think of these emotions as "their own" Therefore they sometimes (sometimes) use emotional manipulations as a WEAPON (after all, they are hurt by emotions, & (sometimes) have no real defense, so they believe that others are defenseless as well. And, sadly, true to form, social constructs, males are TRAINED to be defenseless in the face of female emotions.

    BUT:
    -- Enlightenment (as someone else already stated) is the key. Know yourself! Your willingness to explore the TRUTH. Even ugly truths. To explore reality, and to discard the fantasy (discard the irrational), is in FACT enlightenment. This is why enlightenment is sometimes called "ultimate reality". And, sadly, ONLY ONE GENDER goes there, toward ultimate reality, with the depth required, to know peace and fulfillment.

    -- Even so, it takes the mind to process incoming information, thus we react to incoming negative influence. Even if it is to laugh, and point, at the silly stupidity of it all.

    but who am i?
    If misery loves company; Happiness requires Bachelorhood

    p.s. i resent being a "senior member" - I'm not that old, or am I?

  6. #26
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Yes, it is possible, but very difficult. You have to learn to not give a fuck. A large part of it depends on your environment. And it also depends on what your definition of negative is.

  7. #27

    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    I've learned to do this to an extent from a lot of soul searching and introversion after fully embracing the MGTOW philosophy. I can't do it on demand while going about life, I'm not sure anyone could... But what I can control is my life at home.

    My home is now my fortress, my sanctuary of solitude. I've filled my home with only things that bring me joy. My phone gets turned off, or at least on silent at a minimum as soon as I walk in. I lock the door, close the blinds, and engulf myself in my sanctuary. Once this is a habit, your mind automatically begins to shut out the outside world and any negative influences that I have throughout the day.

    I make a mini to-do list almost daily, with small mundane tasks I need to do along with some mid-term tasks. I make sure I do all of these before I come home so that I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that when I step through that door I've done everything that needs getting done that day. My home is my sanctuary. No one can bother me there unless I open the door and allow them access.... which I don't.

    I also keep my house immaculately clean, very cozy, and I always have a plan for each evenings entertainment. Tonight I'm finishing The Hobbit on Blu-Ray! I have a set schedule for the evenings: Come home, get into my pajamas, eat dinner, take a shit, take a shower, rub one out, watch a movie or TV series, boil a cup of non-caffeinated tea, drink in bed with a book, then lights out. Every night.

    Through MGTOW and self discovery I've found that I'm highly introverted. I work well with others and enjoy working with people during the day, but in the evenings I thrive when given my own personal space. I also sleep MUCH better, wake up more rested, and am much more attentive when at work. My mind and body NEEDS it's solitude in the evening for my mind to unwind, process the days events, and prepare for another day.

    It was absolutely impossible for me to feel this way when I was married, or even when my ex girlfriend would stay over late or overnight. I hated it, it was like my space was being invaded. I LOATHE not being able to shut off... and I don't mean sleeping. I mean just not having to meet someone else's standards, answering their questions, engaging in conversation, holding in a fart, being considerate, thinking for two (oh, you didn't make ME a tea?) And the WORST is when females, all of them, seem to want to "talk" at night about tasks for the next day.

    WTF biiiich!? I'm literally just putting head to pillow, and you want to talk about when we're filing taxes!? Shut The Fuck Up.

    I LOVE LIVING ALONE.

    Every night, I reach a wonderful state of peace where the outside world doesn't affect me. I love it.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Well said, ManontheMountain. It's all about cultivating an enriching routine. Since humans are creatures of habit, leveraging that tendency towards productive habit is always a good thing. I'm trying to start doing all my homework before I come home so my relaxation is total and complete. It takes it to a different level when the relaxation is completely justified, it becomes more immersive. It makes me want to work harder, so my relaxation can be all the more enjoyable. And by relaxation, I'm including both entertainment and hobbies.

    I'm also following the Scott Adams method of getting into an exercise routine. His idea - just do SOMETHING every single day, no matter what. Every day, no exceptions. The habit is more important than anything else. And every day I've just said "ok I need to do ANY amount of exercise", I always end up doing a substantial workout. You'd think it would have the opposite effect and promote laziness, but it doesn't. I was doing purely cardio for a while on an indoor exercise bike, now I'm doing bodyweight exercises first, followed by cardio and it feels amazing. I'm a high strung person in general, so I'm trying to harness that as energy for self-improvement.

  9. #29

    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Nuggets,

    You said it bro, we're creatures of habit. I used to bring work home with me and let it linger in the corner, and it would eat away at my well being. It was constantly reminding me I couldn't relax, there was still more to do. Now, like you, I don't bring that shit in the door, because it stinks. I'll be up for a big change when Im up soon so I'll have to completely self motivate with regards to physical fitness, that do anything once a day sounds like a great place to start.
    Did having a girl spend the night with you ever bother you? It always has with me. Never slept as well and they always end up having multiple little demands and wants.

    Forsaking women altogether and going ghost has taught me some very valuable lessons about self care. Living like a frat boy in filth and drinking yourself to sleep every night is apparently highly overrated, Ive discovered. I think for so long wiminz have cornered the market on self soothing and taking care of oneself that we now consider it unmanly. At least I did until I took a hard look in the mirror and noticed I was beating the fuck out of me. Through MGTOW Ive learned that I don't give a fuck what others think or do, Im going to take care of myself. Forsaking the fact that I may sound a bit phaggy here but I finally just loved myself. I'm a good dude. And that's okay.

  10. #30

    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Deer View Post
    It's putting a meaning to an event that calls it negative or positive. Does a bird cry if it's branch breaks, No. It finds a new branch.
    What's negative? That's up to the viewer. Is "Good" getting what you want. Is evil anything in your way of getting what you want. It's a favourite mind pickle I contemplate. Seeing the good in everything lowers the chance of you defining negative moments in your space/ time.
    Confusing well defined terms like "Good and Evil" or "Right and Wrong" with relative terms like "positive and negative" is a short path to insanity. As being able to distinguish the differnetce between right and wrong is what seperates the sane from the insane.

  11. #31
    Senior Member John Deer's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Who said anyone was sane? Next to True consciousness, we are drunk and asleep.
    The only violence I have experienced has been at the hands of women.

    I live in Canada, So I'm living behind enemy behinds.

  12. #32
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    for me, being unaffected by negative stuff is trying to solve my own problems and not try to solve other people's problems. a lot of my anger at other people over conflict is frustration trying to empathize or understand and solve the conflict or problem. rather than trying to understand other people, i should understand myself. i'm half of the conflict.

    edit:
    i read some science things earlier today that agree with the "The Altruistic Brain". so, instead of starting with a problem of anger, you start at a problem of empathy.
    Last edited by wool.wizard; March 21, 2016 at 12:03 PM. Reason: of, not or

  13. #33
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    The closest to this is the state of Mushin / No Mind.

    Mushin is at the core of Zen and Japanese martial arts. It is a state of mind where the mind is not fixed on or occupied by any thought or emotion and is thus connected to the Cosmos.

    In Zen on in your daily life, if the impulse is expressed as conscious thought, it is not Zen.

    This pure state of mind, of pure mental clarity, is produced by the absence of the ego or limited self. A Mushin mind is not an empty mind like an empty shell, on the contrary, is it a mind fully present, aware and free.
    Since the majority of our pain is psychological, and comes from repetitive and useless thoughts, the state of No Mind totally frees this up and brings a peace like nothing else.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  14. #34
    Senior Member flailer's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Logged in specifically to Thumbs Up this post.

    .... adding: and this is specifically why Eastern Philosophy is 1,000 times greater than Western thought & Psychology.

    ........ also gunna ask: Is this the best thread on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    The closest to this is the state of Mushin / No Mind.



    Since the majority of our pain is psychological, and comes from repetitive and useless thoughts, the state of No Mind totally frees this up and brings a peace like nothing else.
    If misery loves company; Happiness requires Bachelorhood

    p.s. i resent being a "senior member" - I'm not that old, or am I?

  15. #35
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to reach a point where your internal state is completely unaffected by negative external influence?

    Quote Originally Posted by flailer View Post
    Logged in specifically to Thumbs Up this post.

    .... adding: and this is specifically why Eastern Philosophy is 1,000 times greater than Western thought & Psychology.

    ........ also gunna ask: Is this the best thread on this forum?
    The state of Mushin / No Mind seems to change so much in life. For example, how you interact with others, respond to others, the speed of your thinking or responses to circumstances. If you hated a job...suddenly the hate no longer exists, or is reduced greatly. In some cases something you used to hate becomes enjoyable..You start to feel more free, relaxed, and life becomes more enjoyable. What Bruce Lee says here is how you start to feel in that state. The more you practice, the longer you can remain in that state. Soon it becomes your default state of being, rather than something you go into. This is the default state..or should be the default state of every human being but we all got lost in the madness of the busy mind.


    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water my friend. -Bruce Lee
    Great article on some of the other elements of Mushin. They talk about the 'right brain' and how we've been taught to use the left instead!

    Everyday Sensei: Two Easy Steps to Achieve a Mushin State of Mind
    Last edited by Neo; August 22, 2018 at 2:39 PM.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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