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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ace Francis's Avatar
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    Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Monday, Pook's Mill: Time to move beyond MGTOWMarch 24, 2008

    Time to move beyond MGTOW



    There is something very wrong with MGTOW. Instead of talking about 'men going their own way', we see...

    -Anti-Americanism (or other rants against one's mother country)
    -Declarations of Chicken Little economic/social/cultural collapse.
    -Religious screeds against a particular religion or against all religions.
    -Conspiracy theories.
    -Evangelizing the 'Deck-Stacked-Against-Us-Have-No-Hope' view of society (which is unproductive)
    -Evangelizing that one ought to live like a Mexican...
    -...or another country...
    -Forums become a 'Yes!' echo chamber. There is no discussion, just rants filled with yes-men.

    These 'elements' are well known but ignored because of the 'good things' that do come out. We should just shrug off these things and compromise with them. Well, there is one problem.

    When food and poison compromise, which is the victor? It is the poison. Eating it may be sustaining... for the short term... but your body fills up with these poison toxins. You begin to lose your ambition, your passion, and generally become filled with bitterness.

    I have wondered how this is occurring. It is not uncommon. Many 'movements' somehow get filled with negative filled people with anger issues and other wackos. But not all movements. So how did MGTOW become a container for this garbage?

    The answer is that MGTOW is founded on a negative itself: avoidance of woman. This has caused blanket rants against women. "But many of these rants are accurate, Pook!" So what? A farmer can rant all day about the unfairness of frost, but that will not get him anywhere. There is no cosmic justice out there. The world is what it is and its better to live in it that in a hyper-reality.

    Perhaps this will hit more to the point. How many years has MGTOW existed? And what has changed since then? Really, nothing has changed at all.

    But I have to wonder why no one in MGTOW can keep to the subject. Pick any random thread and you will find someone start going off the reservation of a speech against a religion or another unasked for soapbox sermon on some oddball subject. Often, many will randomly insert his "brilliant" assertion that civilization will collapse in ten years.

    MGTOW is based on the belief that men have made mistakes (which should be spared making mistakes). These mistakes can include marriage, being nice guy, being worshipful to women, and so on. All these mistakes have a common theme: egotism. When the man got married, he was so sure he was doing the right thing and the naysayers were all jealous villains.

    Since so many join MGTOW based on being wrong in the past, why does everyone act like they are right all the time? It is amazing! The egotism never died. It just shifted into new forms. This would explain why someone can't keep to the subject of MGTOW and instead must start bashing a religion, bashing a country, or bashing something else. One can be right on something and be wrong on other things. But MGTOW do not see that. They act like they have suddenly become right on everything (so they become vocal on it).

    If we were wrong in the past, and it damaged our lives (such as getting married to a fiend), why do we strut around as if we have such 'wisdom'? If we were so wrong once, we could be wrong again. Yet, this reservation is nowhere to be found in MGTOW. Every man has his own pet theories. The dogs slip their leash and begin to ravage the good content.

    To be honest, I don't see many happy MGTOW. There are no celebrations about being 'free' but complaining about... something. Trust me; celebrations and good cheer are far more effective and contagious than "being right all the time".

    In normal society, people do not like being around someone 'right all the time'. Even if they are right, they are downright annoying. People prefer light-hearted, good cheered fun. When I think of MGTOW, 'good cheer' is the last to come to mind. MGTOW isn't about being alive as it is about escaping pain.

    For as much as we mock feminists for being negative, for getting with women to talk bad about men, it is becoming more and more clear that MGTOW is becoming more like the mirror image. Behavior by behavior, a MGTOW male acts very similar to a feminist in lifestyle and habit. You begin to live alone, have meetings with guys to 'talk bad about women' (to ease existential pains), and write bad essays.

    I think it is becoming clear that marriage and children is a natural longing in not just women but men as well. Nature did not intend gender avoidance. I believe generally everyone is repelled by the negative pessimistic tone found on MGTOW. However, people return consistently for a dose of the poison to ease the existential pain (caused by the natural longing of wife and children which is found in every culture and time). Once convinced by the rantings that women are more painful than pleasurable, the male goes off semi-satisfied. But, alas, the natural longing creeps up again causing the male to return.


    why, it must be requited. I hear how I am censured:
    they say I will bear myself proudly, if I perceive
    the love come from her; they say too that she will
    rather die than give any sign of affection. I did
    never think to marry: I must not seem proud: happy
    are they that hear their detractions and can put
    them to mending. They say the lady is fair; 'tis a
    truth, I can bear them witness; and virtuous; 'tis
    so, I cannot reprove it; and wise, but for loving
    me; by my troth, it is no addition to her wit, nor
    no great argument of her folly, for I will be
    horribly in love with her. I may chance have some
    odd quirks and remnants of wit broken on me,
    because I have railed so long against marriage: but
    doth not the appetite alter? a man loves the meat
    in his youth that he cannot endure in his age.
    Shall quips and sentences and these paper bullets of
    the brain awe a man from the career of his humour?
    No, the world must be peopled. When I said I would
    die a bachelor, I did not think I should live till I
    were married.

    -"Much Ado About Nothing", Shakespeare

    MGTOW is equally damned.

    Pook at 2:09 AM
    Share







  2. #2
    Senior Member Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Ha, this article is from March 2008. Pook's last posts are from June 2008. Seems maybe Pook did move on.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    You're better than any man you outlive.
    - me

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Hoser's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    -Anti-Americanism (or other rants against one's mother country)
    -Declarations of Chicken Little economic/social/cultural collapse.
    -Religious screeds against a particular religion or against all religions.
    -Conspiracy theories.
    -Evangelizing the 'Deck-Stacked-Against-Us-Have-No-Hope' view of society (which is unproductive)
    -Evangelizing that one ought to live like a Mexican...
    -...or another country...
    -Forums become a 'Yes!' echo chamber. There is no discussion, just rants filled with yes-men.

    Welcome to every internet forum. It is not unique to MGTOW. You could go to a needlepoint forum and find people bitching about Trump.


    Perhaps this will hit more to the point. How many years has MGTOW existed? And what has changed since then? Really, nothing has changed at all.

    Some young men have avoided being fed into the marriage/divorce/family court meat grinder. Older ones have found a brotherhood of like minds when they thought they were alone. That's hardly nothing.


    One can be right on something and be wrong on other things. But MGTOW do not see that.
    Yeah, Pook can fuck off with that. MGTOW aren't retards, we recognize this basic fact. (Pook seems pretty sure he is right though.)

    To be honest, I don't see many happy MGTOW. There are no celebrations about being 'free' but complaining
    Look harder. There are lots of upbeat posts. I save a lot of them and re-read when I need a pick me up.

    "If you live a life of even moderate mental and physical discipline, you find yourself cut off from the mass of men."
    -- P. D. Mangan @Mangan150









  4. #4

    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    To be honest, I don't see many happy MGTOW. There are no celebrations about being 'free' but complaining
    Clearly Pook doesn't follow my posts. If he's not careful I might decide that I have been insulted.
    Liberty, Property, Sanity (GreyWolf68)


    Alpha fucks, Beta bucks, Sigma doesn't play.


    MGTOW means never having to care about the female viewpoint (Deathslayer)


    MGTOW is weed for the soul


    I came, I saw, I shrugged, I left


    There is no Tooth Fairy. There is no Santa Claus. There is no Good Woman.


    Disengage, retreat in good order, slash, burn and wait for winter (GreyWolf68)

  5. #5
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Being old, I was in no danger of some youngster luring me into the plantation. Didn't need MGTOW for that.

    What it has done is show just how rotten the plantation is, and that I was actually lucky to avoid it. I wouldn't call that nothing either.
    Drop the needle!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Chukhed's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Perhaps this will hit more to the point. How many years has MGTOW existed? And what has changed since then? Really, nothing has changed at all.
    It sounds like Pook might have gone into MGTOW expecting it to fix something, but that's not really what it's for IMO. A movement like MRA would be more fit for guys like him it seems. He wants change or action, while MGTOW is really just knowledge and a personal philosophy to help men come to terms with the nature of women. Nowhere on any MGTOW forum have i read "We're going to fix everything!", so having that expectation has already set him up for disappointment.

    Red-pill rage is hard to overcome, and sometimes takes years. Of course you will see some negativity during this time, and that's normal. If all you see is negative, then maybe that is all you want to see. It's really all in your own perception. Can you tell what I am emoting while typing this? If you see anything other than indifference, than you are seeing what you feel, not what is being said.

    -Declarations of Chicken Little economic/social/cultural collapse.
    I always found this to be more like "fun speculation", but to each his own.

    The answer is that MGTOW is founded on a negative itself: avoidance of woman. This has caused blanket rants against women. "But many of these rants are accurate, Pook!" So what? A farmer can rant all day about the unfairness of frost, but that will not get him anywhere. There is no cosmic justice out there. The world is what it is and its better to live in it that in a hyper-reality.
    I dont look at avoidance of women as a negative, and i dont think any man should. This doesnt mean i'm advocating to hate women, that would be negative. Big difference there. I guess some men just cannot be happy without chains.

    Rants can be therapeutic, just ask any therapist. Pook is ranting in this post, so... yeah. If a man rants about a woman in a forum where he allowed {like here} and not shamed for his feelings, maybe he can learn to let go of the anger IRL. This is an important aspect of MGTOW forums that Pook misses.

    Pook claims there is no cosmic justice. Well, that is a pretty negative statement in itself. This 'hyper-reality' he is claiming we live in is just having more knowledge about the world. It can be seen as good or bad, depending on what you do with it. The alternative is blue-pill delusion.. A fantasy land. How is that better?

    There is no discussion, just rants filled with yes-men.
    You posted this rant, ranting about other men's rants. That's funny.

    Personally, I'm really not seeing this. Only YOU can change your perception, Pook.

    Is that all we are doing here right now is ranting? I thought we we're just having a discussion.. See? Your perception is important in all things.

    In normal society, people do not like being around someone 'right all the time'. Even if they are right, they are downright annoying.
    This is one of the reasons I avoid women.

    If we were wrong in the past, and it damaged our lives (such as getting married to a fiend), why do we strut around as if we have such 'wisdom'? If we were so wrong once, we could be wrong again. Yet, this reservation is nowhere to be found in MGTOW.
    Sure, we could be wrong.. but again, the alternative is blue-pill delusion. If you have found a better way, by all means clue us in.

    I "strut" around with the knowledge that a relationshit could make my life alot worse {like it has too many times in the past}, just like i strut around with the knowledge that some snakes are poisonous. Would you rather NOT have that knowledge and pick up every snake you see? Just a thought.

    I think it is becoming clear that marriage and children is a natural longing in not just women but men as well. Nature did not intend gender avoidance.
    Agreed, but like you said.. "The world is what it is." so learn to adapt. We are only products of a system today, not the original creators of it.

    It sounds like he didnt get to the 'acceptance' stage. Someday you will Pook, someday.
    I refuse to be a part of the Three Ring Circus: Engagement ring. Wedding ring. Suffer ring.

    You can't be king of the world if you're slave to the vag.

  7. #7
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    When he gets another one ripped into him by another woman, yes, that should make him reach that stage.
    Marriage is like Russian Roulette. Except your wife put in two more bullets and the death the bullets deliver won't be quick or painless.

  8. #8
    Senior Member LastPriory's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Notice to Pooks' Mill blogger.

    Spell checking does not always correct bad punctuation. We can read/feel Shakespeare but
    can't write the Queens' English the way whomever Shakespeare truly was wrote that work.

    Don't worry, whoever you are.
    Neither can anyone else. Nobody thinks that way anymore.
    Only Shakespeare can write Shakespeare, or his best whore impersonator.
    The son of a bitch.

    How long has MGTOW been around?

    Answer for the Fake Pook.

    MGTOW is Eternal. It is the true essence of Manhood itself.
    At whatever scale, magnitude and potential that any man can
    wield, for as long as he wields true power on behalf or others.

    The power he has over himself first will manifest in many ways.

    How long as MGTOW existed?

    As long as Men have existed and didn't want any woman
    telling them how to be a Man any more.

    We are Men first and we go toward whatever and whichever way suits us.

    As long as Women have pushed men out of their womb,
    women have tried and failed to teach a man how to be attractive
    to many women.

    As long as women spat at us with their boobs, or verbally
    assaulted us with their fake desires, we went our own way.

    A good man for a bad woman, paying for his own slavery is the sum total
    of every divorce.

    All divorces are premeditated by women.


    Notice to MGTOW:
    Women of other Mothers want someone better than you.
    Those women will fuck you to get an introduction.
    This is how those women think, or pretend to think:

    Better than the man who made this child she pushed
    painfully out of her crotch. Boy or Girl, a child will suck at her breast.
    She thinks she's the best of what a man once gave to her.

    Life itself.

    She really loved that man, for as long as it took for
    her to give birth to any man child and sign divorce and custody papers.
    He made a mistake once. He loved his enemy. He won't do it again.

    MGTOW seek a higher path, a more meaningful challenge.
    We want to be productive, not reproductive.

    How's that?
    Clear enough?
    MGTOW protect l!fe !tselF............................................ .....
    "A bachelor is a man who didnít make the same mistake once." -EternalBachelor
    Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LastPriory's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    One other item.

    The date modified for this web page does not reflect the supposed date it was published.

    I won't have time tonight to go to the wayback machine and verify whether or not what was written here
    was actually written in 2008, or if it was altered at a later date.

    Here is a screenshot offered as evidence.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    "A bachelor is a man who didnít make the same mistake once." -EternalBachelor
    Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.

  10. #10

    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Anger<Ownership. From what I've seen here on this forum a lot of people own their mistakes and have made some positive changes to their lives.

    One thing that interests me though impossible to gauge is MGTOW gone wrong. Straight paranoia living off the grid in a Doomsday Prepper fashion leading to decreased quality of life. On the flip side I'm not going to knock self-sufficiency as I have personally seen what happens in a war economy.
    ďbecause even solitude is better than evil company.Ē - Bartolomeo Scala

  11. #11
    Senior Member LastPriory's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Quote Originally Posted by Free and Clear View Post
    Anger<Ownership. From what I've seen here on this forum a lot of people own their mistakes and have made some positive changes to their lives.

    One thing that interests me though impossible to gauge is MGTOW gone wrong. Straight paranoia living off the grid in a Doomsday Prepper fashion leading to decreased quality of life. On the flip side I'm not going to knock self-sufficiency as I have personally seen what happens in a war economy.
    Nobody who resides or was born in the USA knows anything other than a war economy.

    You are right. Anger is less than Ownership.

    Anger is slavery.
    "A bachelor is a man who didnít make the same mistake once." -EternalBachelor
    Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    I think it is becoming clear that marriage and children is a natural longing in not just women but men as well. Nature did not intend gender avoidance.
    Why would marriage be a natural longing for men? It's a social institution, not something in our DNA. The natural male longing is for polygamy, and maybe one "special lady friend" who's better than the other women.

    And the desire to have children is not natural for all men. I've never ever wanted kids at any point in my life, I was born that way. A lot of guys here feel the same way. We're not actively suppressing some natural drive, the idea just never occured to us in the first place - it's an alien thought.
    "The hours of folly are measured by the clock; but of wisdom, no clock can measure" - William Blake

    Nuggets = chicken nuggets. First thing that popped into my head when I signed up

  13. #13
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    MGTOW is negative? Well in Buddhism they teach to let go of attachments which includes sex. I have been happier without a woman and without living with someone. Some of my happiest days are when I'm totally alone. I"m not oppose to dating but I'm not going to court any woman. I'm not opposed to long term relationship but most women aren't long term relationship material. I went on okcupid just to see how crazy women were. Pretty much every single chick had some screwed up thinking or didn't leave much deatail. Most women aren't putting effort into a relationship like in China where the women will cook and clean for a woman. This isn't the case for western women. Only germany, where women will go dutch meaning they want to put some kind of effot. If women are willing to screw you over from the begnning she is also very likely to screw you over if you get a divorce.
    Of course there is group think but are people who disagree. It is an issue pretty much every community though. Without differences in opinion nobody would learn anything.

  14. #14
    Senior Member LastPriory's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    MGTOW is negative? Well in Buddhism they teach to let go of attachments which includes sex. I have been happier without a woman and without living with someone. Some of my happiest days are when I'm totally alone. I"m not oppose to dating but I'm not going to court any woman. I'm not opposed to long term relationship but most women aren't long term relationship material. I went on okcupid just to see how crazy women were. Pretty much every single chick had some screwed up thinking or didn't leave much deatail. Most women aren't putting effort into a relationship like in China where the women will cook and clean for a woman. This isn't the case for western women. Only germany, where women will go dutch meaning they want to put some kind of effot. If women are willing to screw you over from the begnning she is also very likely to screw you over if you get a divorce.
    Of course there is group think but are people who disagree. It is an issue pretty much every community though. Without differences in opinion nobody would learn anything.
    Forget Germany- they were fucked up before "fucked up" became terminology.

    Differences in terminology is where all of this bullshit started.

    Good luck with that tip, make the most you can for yourself and give to others where you feel you are qualified to do so.
    Self check constantly to avoid others checking up on you.

    I might like you better if you did an intro, doesn't matter which language.
    "A bachelor is a man who didnít make the same mistake once." -EternalBachelor
    Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ATLien's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    I haven't been an echo chamber as of late. I butt heads with some MGTOWers on youtube comments. These are the typical level 1 angry mgtowers.


    Hell as an example, I've even posted a positive comment on laci green's red pill video.


    Since taking the red pill long ago, I do plug back into the matrix for limited engagements.
    My opinions are not necessarily my opinions.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Hesiod's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
    And the desire to have children is not natural for all men. I've never ever wanted kids at any point in my life, I was born that way. A lot of guys here feel the same way. We're not actively suppressing some natural drive, the idea just never occurred to us in the first place - it's an alien thought.
    And I second that thought.

    I remember feeling this way from a young age.
    Last edited by Hesiod; June 23, 2017 at 6:29 AM.
    "Whoever has trusted a woman has trusted deceivers." .... Hesiod

    If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much




  17. #17
    Senior Member ATLien's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Quote Originally Posted by Hesiod View Post
    And I second that thought
    thirded

  18. #18
    Senior Member LastPriory's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Quote Originally Posted by ATLien View Post
    thirded

    Quadrature realized.

    Good work, all around.
    "A bachelor is a man who didnít make the same mistake once." -EternalBachelor
    Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Nothing wrong with a man moving on from mgtow. As long as the man doesn't marry or live with a woman he is free do as he wishes.

  20. #20

    Re: Time To Move Beyond MGTOW--Da Pook

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    Nothing wrong with a man moving on from mgtow. As long as the man doesn't marry or live with a woman he is free do as he wishes.
    This is a positive outcome, the recovery and renewal at the opposite end of the process from the red pill rage. Perhaps he has moved on from *organised* MGTOW but MGTOW itself has become internalised and axiomatic. He is invulnerable.

    Artificial nails scrape in vain down Teflon-coated, face-hardened armour.
    Liberty, Property, Sanity (GreyWolf68)


    Alpha fucks, Beta bucks, Sigma doesn't play.


    MGTOW means never having to care about the female viewpoint (Deathslayer)


    MGTOW is weed for the soul


    I came, I saw, I shrugged, I left


    There is no Tooth Fairy. There is no Santa Claus. There is no Good Woman.


    Disengage, retreat in good order, slash, burn and wait for winter (GreyWolf68)


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