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  1. #21
    Senior Member Don Keyknob's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Mensa? If that's another word for asshole, count me in! I wear my asshole with pride!

    You idiot!!

    I'd nearly got us into MENSA then. I was slowly networking connections to get us in through the back door - on account of us not being anywhere near clever enough to get ourselves in through the front.

    And then you went and said that - and ruined everything!!!!!

    You and your flippin' asshole comments...do you think Alfred Einstein goes around talking about his asshole 24/7??

    It's no wonder me and you are the leastest mostest popular people on here.

    Just keep your mouth shut in future or else we'll never be allowed to go anywhere other than that basket-weaving class... I'm sick of it. I've got 800 baskets now!!

  2. #22
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I'd like to solicit input from the forum. Two concepts that seem to conflict with each other are as follows:

    1) A woman who's N count is too high will ruin her ability to pair bond.

    2) Women are incapable of love, at least the unconditional kind of love a man can give.

    .
    My two cents
    High N count women and low N count women are both incapable of love, but both love what they can get from a man. Low N count women might believe they are pair bonding, but in reality is their style to maximize gain.

    Wife #1 Crazy psycho high N count, she cut the line when she realized she would have to prove her faithfulness before her name was added to the home and business. It was a short marriage, no kids, just bruised in Divorce Court. She built up a ton of debt afterwards, found another sucker to pay it off and then divorced him too after just a few years

    Wife #2 Low N count, played out her hand well, long marriage, maxed out her gains in Divorce Court at the most opportune time for assets and alimony

    Same creature, different techniques

  3. #23
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I call this paradigm a third party tyrannical law that aims to give society dominion over your divine rights to be, live, and behave like a man, like we're supposed to allow them to slit the throat of past cultures where men were not treated like criminals for abiding in our nature. We've been relegated by law as 2nd class citizens, when it comes to family, we're at the same or worse legal standing as the family's dog.
    LURKERS, FENCE SITTERS, PURPLE-PILLERS and future Red Pill Takers: READ THAT AGAIN. AND THEN ONCE MORE!!
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    Is there any doubt the pain she feels is real? There is something there that is real. I'm just not sure what to call it. Perhaps "love" is the best descriptor.
    Women feel "hope" towards men. Love is reserved for their babies and their cats. This teenager's pain is the pain of disappointed hope.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Love is a complicated word.

    Take for example the female hamster when it spits out "I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you."

    Does that mean you're still the same lovable old teddy bear you once were, except now you don't meet the NEW STANDARDS?
    Does that mean she loves the resources but is no longer down to fuck?

    For women, love is mostly something they feel.
    For men, love is mostly something they do.

    This primary difference between men and women has been very troublesome for feminism.
    Trying to turn females from feelers into doers has made millions of women very very unhappy.

    And that's okay. They embraced feminism because "all power is good power" correct?

    I'd ask women to mull that one over, but my expectations of them are just not quite that high.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  6. #26
    Moderator sirreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    My 2 bits on it. Great thread BTW.


    SR

    BED. MADE. LIE.

    Pussy is and will always be transitory. You'll get it when you can and enjoy life anyway when you can't.

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    Never will marry

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  7. #27
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Keyknob View Post
    You idiot!!

    I'd nearly got us into MENSA then. I was slowly networking connections to get us in through the back door - on account of us not being anywhere near clever enough to get ourselves in through the front.

    And then you went and said that - and ruined everything!!!!!

    You and your flippin' asshole comments...do you think Alfred Einstein goes around talking about his asshole 24/7??

    It's no wonder me and you are the leastest mostest popular people on here.

    Just keep your mouth shut in future or else we'll never be allowed to go anywhere other than that basket-weaving class... I'm sick of it. I've got 800 baskets now!!
    Thanks Donkey! Now I know why I'm always kicked out of everything, they never confront me and tell me why? I always get legal notices in the mail.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I'd like to solicit input from the forum. Two concepts that seem to conflict with each other are as follows:

    1) A woman who's N count is too high will ruin her ability to pair bond.

    2) Women are incapable of love, at least the unconditional kind of love a man can give.

    Now they aren't exactly at conflict, because I think they are both obviously true. That being said, what do we call the state of pair bonding in a woman with a low N count? Say that girl in high school who gives it up to the local football hero only to have him "next" her and move on.

    Is there any doubt the pain she feels is real? There is something there that is real. I'm just not sure what to call it. Perhaps "love" is the best descriptor.

    I think tradcons have it right that there is something there worth defending, although I think this audience would agree that this is impossible in the current year.

    What would you call this state? Using the same term to describe the unconditional love men can offer would seem to be an error, at least IMHO.
    I don't know how strongly backed by science this notion of 'pair-bonding' is but I think it is a bit of a weak argument. I've met ex-prostitutes who are deeply committed to their partners.

    Women are certainly capable of love and going through a lot of suffering to take care of a man they love; I have experienced this myself. The issue is that in the modern world, most women choose not to love. They choose expedience, luxury and decadence. And yea! good for them, men should be taught to do the same.

    There is nothing worth saving. Forget it!!!!

    Women are by choice, and of their own free will enemies to men; not by nature or this and that blah blah theory. The make choices which benefit them at the expense of men.

    See how they manipulate men, how they use their sexuality, their organisation skills to enforce gynocentric laws.

    And it is men who are the dumb fucks for even believing in 'unconditional love'.

    I am currently dating a super hot chick, we matched through Bumble and we have been fucking like mad and it's been so much fun!

    If she ever, even for one day refuses sex, then it is bye bye to lunches, dinners, cocktails, massages, cooking dinners and all the other shit I occasionally do for her.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I'd like to solicit input from the forum. Two concepts that seem to conflict with each other are as follows:

    1) A woman who's N count is too high will ruin her ability to pair bond.

    2) Women are incapable of love, at least the unconditional kind of love a man can give.

    Now they aren't exactly at conflict, because I think they are both obviously true. That being said, what do we call the state of pair bonding in a woman with a low N count? Say that girl in high school who gives it up to the local football hero only to have him "next" her and move on.

    Is there any doubt the pain she feels is real? There is something there that is real. I'm just not sure what to call it. Perhaps "love" is the best descriptor.

    I think tradcons have it right that there is something there worth defending, although I think this audience would agree that this is impossible in the current year.

    What would you call this state? Using the same term to describe the unconditional love men can offer would seem to be an error, at least IMHO.
    1. A high N count does lower the chances of a woman pair bonding. This is true as it has been shown by various studies. But I agree with the others that there are other factors. Being alpha widowed torpedoes any chance a woman pair bonds even if that man was her first. Lack of resources break the bonds women form with men because women do not want to lead relationships. When resources dwindle the implication is that a woman is forced to step up to bridge the gap with resources lost to maintain a certain lifestyle and "lead". From a woman's point of view they don't see the point of having the man in her life if she has to increase her work load. So a woman is doing a cost benefit analysis of the relationship which shatters such pair bonding. Which is truly no different than a man that does a cost benefit analysis with a woman that wants to wine and dine and does not contribute a dime. While not the same there are a lot of similarities in that no man or woman wants to date a doormat or leech.

    Now, the exception is that if the bond is so strong that there is a lopsided desire with one party that they overlook these poor traits in a partner. A man overlooking a gold digger because he thinks she is an angel. Or a woman paying for a broke chad to live with her.

    Most relationships that have strong pair bonds often involve couples with similar SMVs but also similar goals. This is because SMV shifts over time for men and women so the only bond that can hold men and women together beyond the child bearing years are long term retirement goals.

    But that is the issue isn't it? Young couples are not taught to discuss long term retirement goals and thus they sabotage their ability to pair bond beyond lust/infatuation phase, child bearing years phase, etc.

    This is why it is said in some cultures that men and women are not meant to live together beyond child bearing years as they approach retirement. This is why it common that couples stay together and have strong friendship bonds. But do not live together or have their own rooms.

    2. I do not think any human being is capable of unconditional love IMO. I think men are capable of unconditional acts of heroism because there is no guarantee of reward from risking your life. And there is a chance you can't claim your reward if your life is over. Under such circumstances men are indeed capable of unconditional risk taking and heroism.

    That is important to point out because white knighting is not an unconditional act as you expect a return of validation by white knighting. It is calculated in that you expect some social cred in return for your white knight act by complying by the strict standards that are proclaimed to be the rule of gynocentric land.

    I have grappled with this a lot in my mind. This is because I do see married men stay committed with relationships with their wives that are terminal with cancer for example. But, I would not categorize such circumstances as unconditional love. To me these married men fall under the principles of honor, duty, respect, and loyalty of their wives, their marriage vows, etc. Unconditional love implies you would yield and submit your self worth as an ultimate sacrifice which is not likely. Ironically white knights are willing to sacrifice their self worth for a brief moment but they will quickly yank it back if it is not in their favor. Tragically they can't pull back when it is too late which is where white knights falter. But even white knights understand that being a door mat for too long leads you to no where.

  10. #30
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Thanks for this guys. It really got me thinking in a lot of different directions.

    First, with regard to the OP, I tend to agree that it really isn't the N count that matters. I think what matters is, "Is this the best guy I've ever been with" is what matters. A woman with a low N count is more likely to answer "True" to that question. I now think a low N count is a correlation, not causal. There is very little left of the tradcon social construct that keeps a modern women from monkey branching. This means that any faith in a low N count is more misplaced every day. From the comments from younger guys, I'm thinking it is a useless measure at this point.

    There is so much other stuff in this thread to ponder as well. Another thing I've come to grips with recently, is that it is OK to mourn what was. I truly do value my children above all else. The fact that my boys will likely not get to experience that sort of joy makes me said. Reality is what it is however. I will be advising them to run fast and far from anything that looks like a traditional relationship.

    For a long time, I was trying to "Become OK" with reality. Kind of like an attempt to reconcile red pill truth in a way that would take away the missing of what was. I think the more helpful thing is to be OK with missing the old social norms. Kind of like missing my dead father. It, and he did exist. I am said that they no longer do. Life goes on.

  11. #31
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    I do still think "unconditional love" exists, at least in the blue pill world. The problem, as usual is definitions. Like all things, I am speaking with regard to my experience. I truly did have unconditional love for my wife. The "exception" however, was the underlying assumption that this love was reciprocal.

    In the strictest sense, this made the "love" conditional. I won't debate that. In engineering school though, I learned that no problem is solvable until you have listed your assumptions. If any assumption fails, then the solution to your problem is no longer valid. This is what happened to me with regard to unconditional love.

    In my blue pill days, I would have taken care of my wife through the toughest of circumstances, and bent over backward with genuine intent to make her happy, at least while I thought the feeling was reciprocal. Finding out this basic assumption was faulty was the start of my red pill awakening. What resulted however, was not a level of "conditional love". What resulted was the inability to ever love women again. I fully support the idea that you can either love women or understand them. The underlying assumption regarding female love has proven invalid, therefore the blue-pill solution is also invalid.

    Now the only "unconditional" love I have is for my children. The same assumption is present though. I assume my children will have my best interests at heart. If that assumption ever fails, then the unconditional love fails as well. What this has made clear to me is the necessity of respect. If either women or children loose respect for you, then it is all over. There are uncountable ways for this to happen, either by our own shortcomings, or by the manipulations of others.

    We are then left with a semantic argument. Does an assumption count as a condition? I argue that it does not. It is part of the underlying premise. I'm happy to allow for the fact that others disagree with this position. In the end, we are basically saying the same thing just with slightly different definitions.

    To clarify one last point. I still say I love my children unconditionally. That being said, red-pill me is ever watchful for the failure of the stated assumptions. Blue-pill me wasn't even aware that these assumptions where in play.

  12. #32
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Of all the couples I knew good enough to make an informed guess, there's been no more than six or eight that obviously loved each other. Not very good odds considering how many people I met or worked with over the years. So while it could happen, don't hold your breath.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  13. #33
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    At least half of those 8 are probably just really good at keeping up appearances.

  14. #34
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    Of all the couples I knew good enough to make an informed guess, there's been no more than six or eight that obviously loved each other. Not very good odds considering how many people I met or worked with over the years. So while it could happen, don't hold your breath.
    That's been my experience as well. But I believe it's worse, because you witnessed their relationships over only a very narrow slice of time. A year, two years, five years later, those relationships might've gone into the shitter. I also think that pbisque raises a great point that many couples are great at whitewashing when other people are in the room. Especially their own children.

  15. #35
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    I stand by what I said, this small handful stood out from the crowd. But overall it was a large group with few winners.

    There's a lot of truth in what you say about people changing and hiding shit too. Another thing to think about, how successful are the ones who did manage to stick together? Most of the ones I know, they treat each other ok for the most part. But is it what they signed up for, specially the guys? You know it's not, and according to the blue pill world, these are success stories. We hide a lot a shit, that's for sure.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Two Red Pill concepts at odds with each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I do still think "unconditional love" exists, at least in the blue pill world. The problem, as usual is definitions. Like all things, I am speaking with regard to my experience. I truly did have unconditional love for my wife. The "exception" however, was the underlying assumption that this love was reciprocal.

    In the strictest sense, this made the "love" conditional. I won't debate that. In engineering school though, I learned that no problem is solvable until you have listed your assumptions. If any assumption fails, then the solution to your problem is no longer valid. This is what happened to me with regard to unconditional love.

    In my blue pill days, I would have taken care of my wife through the toughest of circumstances, and bent over backward with genuine intent to make her happy, at least while I thought the feeling was reciprocal. Finding out this basic assumption was faulty was the start of my red pill awakening. What resulted however, was not a level of "conditional love". What resulted was the inability to ever love women again. I fully support the idea that you can either love women or understand them. The underlying assumption regarding female love has proven invalid, therefore the blue-pill solution is also invalid.

    Now the only "unconditional" love I have is for my children. The same assumption is present though. I assume my children will have my best interests at heart. If that assumption ever fails, then the unconditional love fails as well. What this has made clear to me is the necessity of respect. If either women or children loose respect for you, then it is all over. There are uncountable ways for this to happen, either by our own shortcomings, or by the manipulations of others.

    We are then left with a semantic argument. Does an assumption count as a condition? I argue that it does not. It is part of the underlying premise. I'm happy to allow for the fact that others disagree with this position. In the end, we are basically saying the same thing just with slightly different definitions.

    To clarify one last point. I still say I love my children unconditionally. That being said, red-pill me is ever watchful for the failure of the stated assumptions. Blue-pill me wasn't even aware that these assumptions where in play.
    Reciprocation of respect is important for human interactions. This exchange of respect creates the strongest bond. But, paradoxically it is also the easiest bond to break with one betrayal. And even if that bond is restored again it is never the same.

    Nothing is forever or not changing in life. Life is dynamic which is why the concept like marriage is simply not embraced by younger generations. It is is what it is as we lament how the past was ideal. But that ideal was built upon the premise and assumption that fairy tale world would stay the same in that snow globe we hold in high regard.

    As others have said that is simply a snap shot in time of the ideal. Nothing wrong with pursuing for the ideal but we can't ignore reality.

    Technically everything in life has conditions but I don't become jaded about it because that is how life fundamentally works.


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