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  1. #21
    Senior Member Zoidberg's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Code:
    Wants sex?  Desperately? Can get it?  Verdict
    ----------  -----------  -----------  ------------------------
    yes         yes          yes          average pussy worshipper
    yes         yes          no           incel
    yes         no           yes          Chad & friends
    yes         no           no           celibate
    no          N/A          yes          celibate
    no          N/A          no           celibate
    Everybody but the first two can walk his own way away from pussy.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    The official definition I found googling of incel is
    a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.


    So it appears that by definition, incel is a self chosen label. I would argue these men are not INVOLUNTARY celibates, they are just not willing to go through the effort, risk, time and money required to 'attract' and be a slave for todays predatory opportunistic narcissistic self entitled women. But if they choose to call themselves incels, it is up to them. The more Red Pill knowledge a man has, the smaller and smaller the pool of acceptable women becomes. The pool either becomes empty, or so few and unattainable that MGTOW is the only option. In the meantime, I think they should honour, and just say their standards are too high, and the available women quality is too low

  3. #23
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    There are some incels that CONSIDER themselves MGTOW but are truly not. MGTOW is about going through life & bullshit and coming to the realization its just the way things are. I am far from incel. Incels never even asked a girl out because they are to weak to face rejection and just move on. They put all their faith and energy into one girl. They don't realize women are like food. They think just because one item on the menu is horrible then the entire menu is horrible. MGTOW is trying multiple items on the menu and realizing how the quality of the food really is . If you eat at McDonalds and all their burgers are burnt and/ or give you the shits then you come to the realization its not worth it to waste more time & effort in trying anymore. Incels try one and if its not good then they get angry. They fail to take into account that maybe its the cooks first day or it was an off day. Incels remind me of the internet fanboys about a video game too. When the new Madden football game comes out then they bitch and moan because its not like it was 20 years ago! You can't compare things like that but they do!

  4. #24
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    The only guy I know in real life who calls MGTOW incels recently admitted he hadn't got laid in eight months by his landwhale girlfriend. This was just after they had finally broken up. When suggested that maybe he should find someone else to fuck, he said: "But that would be cheating". And guess what, they're back together now, haha.

    Make no mistake, gentlemen, calling others incels is mostly projection and as Xanthine pointed out, likely the case here as well.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Hoppes#9's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    I f you want to fuck...then do it...if not then fuck it It is about you being in charge of this new paradigm of MGTOW......YOU call the shots....not some greedy bitch,...But DO NOT FORM A RELATIONSHIP that will cost you your dignity and your manhood.... In other words...fuk'em and leave,,,,,

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by bcroger2 View Post
    but I've noticed that many MGTOW are actually guy's who can't get laid even if they wanted to.
    Thoughts?
    Thoughts? Hmmm - how about "Meh."

    Meh. I guess so.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    There are many layers to consider.

    The men that reject the incel label tend to be the men that crave intimacy and having a loving relationship with a woman one day. So from their point of view having sex with a fatty or a pro isn't going to satisfy their itch or how they feel. However, the men that embrace the incel label tend to focus on the physical and sexual aspects that is missing and never experienced. For them going with a fatty or pro would probably be healthy to get it out of their system so they can move on with their lives and realize sex doesn't define a man and pussy can be overrated.

    But the most important lesson I think these men miss is that the reason other men succeed where they fail is because you can't put pussy on throne while putting your self down. Self respect as a man is paramount.

  8. #28
    Senior Member stanmsl's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Probably are many men who are incels, but they are still better off than your average married man, as many have said they are just a couple of steps away from realizing the truth. I have two friends in their 60's both have had 3 divorces, would their lives have been better if they had been incels? That's the million dollar question because that's about the amount of money each lost.
    Not better or worse just different.
    Can you really measure the lifetime frustration of a blue pill clueless INCEL against the suffering caused by a man who got burned in a divorce....Very difficult in my opinion.

    I have at least a dozen friends in their 40s who have little or no relationships with women, some by choice some not. I bet none of them have heard of MGTOW or the red pill. A few of them are social recluses, most of them drink excessively in the same pub every weekend and blow most of their money on gambling (horse racing is very big here). It's not as if they are going to retire 10 years before everyone else, if of course they actually live that long.
    It's only discovering the red pill world that saved me from both fates.

    Ultimately INCEL is a term used by women to shame men that they themselves rejected. In many cases for following the exact advice (I want a nice caring sensitive man) that they gave men in the first place.

    Back to the original question, I was getting laid but not very often and the effort involved vastly outweighed the reward because I was unknowingly playing a 21st century game using a 1950s rule book.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Wally's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Stanmsl, you bring up a good point and it made me recall what one of the men said to me " marriage is the best thing in the world when she has your back but in my three marriages they never once had my back." Both the Incel and the married man ultimately want the same thing. it's not necessarily about the sex- they want someone who cares about them, but that rarely happens long term.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Stanmsl, you bring up a good point and it made me recall what one of the men said to me " marriage is the best thing in the world when she has your back but in my three marriages they never once had my back." Both the Incel and the married man ultimately want the same thing. it's not necessarily about the sex- they want someone who cares about them, but that rarely happens long term.
    Yes even the PUAs that spin plates tend to settle on having one plate become a LTR as they grow older. This is because a lot of men crave that intimacy and wanting to trust a woman as a partner. Problem is you have to draw the line. Do not co-habitate, do not marry and do not knock up.

  11. #31

    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    One big problem with MGTOW (and with many men) is ACCEPTING A PREMISE and debating based on that premise.

    The premise in this case is 'men want to get laid' and/or 'getting laid is an achievement'.

    One difference between third world people and first world people, I've noticed, is the attitude toward sex. First world people tend to govern their sexual appetites as opposed to their appetites governing them. Whenever I see the peaks of civilization, I see higher governance over the sexual passions (e.g. puritans first founding America, the monks guarding knowledge after the fall of Rome, etc). In third world people, I see them frequently having children they cannot afford.

    In most hilarious fashion, we see places like Detroit, a fourth world area, have people imagine they have higher worth than scholars, engineers, scientists because 'they are getting laid' while those other guys are not.

    The 'secret incel' premise has been applied to other areas. The nerd in school is actually just an 'incel'. If the nerd could get laid, the nerd wouldn't be a nerd. If the MGTOW could get laid, they wouldn't be MGTOW. That is the premise.

    But note how this 'secret incel' premise is conspicuously absent from feminists? "I don't need a man!" Perhaps because she can't get one? That is never implied. Why?

    From a rhetorical sense, the premise automatically puts you on the defensive. This 'assumed premise' is heavily prevalent in American politics (and is why Trump has so much passionate hatred since he rejects premises).

    "I am MGTOW!"

    Oh, you're not one of those INCELS are you? HMM?

    "Oh no, it's just that blah blah blah..."

    The better response would be to reframe.

    "Don't you believe men own their own money and can do with it whatever they want?"

    Of course, feminists don't believe that. But by switching the premise, the feminists are now on the defensive.

    "Do not men deserve freedom and agency in this life?"

    It is very hard to argue against that. To do otherwise is to advocate slavery. If women are to be free, then so should the men.
    They intentionally say what we 'ought' to do instead of what we could do. For if the lion discovers his own strength, he will become uncontrollable.

  12. #32
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Good observation about the perils of debating from a premise that is not rigorously examined. Once it is examined, the premise that having sex is a greater achievement than earning a challenging degree, or learning a valuable trade, or repairing machines is ludicrous.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    I still want to know how the OP came to know that "MGTOW's can't get laid". In my case, I don't crave sex, I don't want an incurable infestation of weeping sores on my dick, and despite being ABLE to go out and buy the dinners, or date, or just pay for sex, I couldn't be bothered. Only a blue-pilled idiot would read that and think "Yup. Knew it. Can't get laid." Sure, if I gave up drinking, or making my kids regular college fund investments, I could afford a bitch. But... why? Why pay to have an insufferable and constantly unhappy person around who will eventually (a) stop the sex (b) blame you for their unhappiness and (c) cost you a shit tonne of money while they stay and even long after they are gone? If I ever *NEED* to get laid again, god knows I'll pay by the hour because that's the cheapest sex a man can ever get - even at $200/hr. The sex with my ex probably cost somewhere between $1500 and $3000 a go, depending on whether you count the "actual cost" of divorce or go on to consider lost investment potential and other related costs.

    I guess the OP might be the kind of guy who still needs to regularly deal with that never-ending unquenchable thirst that is the cause of women being such utterly insufferable entitled cunts these days.

    I guess I should just feel grateful I am not a slave to primal urges anymore.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  14. #34
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by Macavity View Post
    Oh, you're not one of those INCELS are you? HMM?
    "You mean like how feminists are *relationship* incels? Can't get a man to commit?"

    Never defend. Only attack.

  15. #35
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Hi bcroger2,

    I was thinking here how a few of us have asked you to post again in this thread to clarify yourself but you have not been back. (You have not logged in since the day you posted this thread.) You have posted a topic you deem controversial then have disappeared and do not stick around to participate. It occurred to me that that is just like what trolls do!

    I see your low post count of 40 and so I poked around and saw that you never did a proper Intro! Look at what you did post:

    http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow...roduced-11487/

    In that thread, you were asked by me at that time to do an Intro. That was December 2018. You did not improve your Intro since that time, you next posted a few times in June 2019, then nothing more until this August thread.

    So, this post you should be reading is your second time you have been asked to write a proper Intro.

    I have sent you a PM to alert you to this message and with instructions to direct you to How To Intro. If I do not hear from you within 5 days, I will close your account.

    Thank you.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax and register-her.net

  16. #36
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    In my mind Incels are just very financially challenged men. If they could just scrape together 2000 bucks for a flight to Germany or Holland they could get laid to their hearts content. Since prostitution is a thing their celibacy is entirely voluntary.

    Now as far as the connection between MGTOW and incels goes in my mind its very simple. The former incels that are MGTOW now are the ones that smartened up. Once they let go of the Jealousy and hatred they have for so-called "Chads and Stacies" their lives improve. There is alot more to life than sticking your dick into someone. Also it takes a horrible toll on you body and mind being mad 24/7. I wouldn't be surprised if a mindset like that is what creates these Wallmart mass shooters.

    I get that many of us were told by our societies, that our highest ambition in life is finding a woman and taking car of her. Given the absolute state of women these days I can call any man that says **FUCK THAT!** a superior man.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    Hi bcroger2,

    I was thinking here how a few of us have asked you to post again in this thread to clarify yourself but you have not been back. (You have not logged in since the day you posted this thread.) You have posted a topic you deem controversial then have disappeared and do not stick around to participate. It occurred to me that that is just like what trolls do!

    I see your low post count of 40 and so I poked around and saw that you never did a proper Intro! Look at what you did post:

    http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow...roduced-11487/

    In that thread, you were asked by me at that time to do an Intro. That was December 2018. You did not improve your Intro since that time, you next posted a few times in June 2019, then nothing more until this August thread.

    So, this post you should be reading is your second time you have been asked to write a proper Intro.

    I have sent you a PM to alert you to this message and with instructions to direct you to How To Intro. If I do not hear from you within 5 days, I will close your account.

    Thank you.
    I knew I smelt something fishy.
    Something fishy.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  18. #38
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Try to remember and view MGTOW as a philosophy and not as a group of men. A "MGTOW" is any man that embraces the MGTOW philosophy. Why wouldn't this include incels?

    An incel is just a man that, generally speaking, was dealt a shit hand genetically speaking. Sure many of them could improve their chances by hitting the gym, <insert PUA tripe here>, etc... If your initial hand is shitty enough, then you may easily conclude the effort is not worth it.

    What other salvation is there for an incel? Embracing MGTOW is their only salvation. The MGTOW philosophy should be the widest possible umbrella in the mansophere. It will contain MRA, incel, PUA, etc. In essence, it is all of these men learning frame control. Men need to learn what comes to women automatically. Solipsism in a woman is a trait. I think this is true for natural alpha males as well. To beta males (most of us), it is more a learned skill and embracing MGTOW will get you there, no matter what other groups you identify with.

    There is nothing wrong with incels embracing MGTOW. Also, all MGTOW are not incel. This is not an all or nothing game.

  19. #39
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post
    I knew I smelt something fishy.
    Something fishy.
    Damn right there was.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Are many MGTOW just incels who pretend that they choose to be single?I know this

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wombat View Post
    "You mean like how feminists are *relationship* incels? Can't get a man to commit?"

    Never defend. Only attack.
    They call themselves femcels which is interesting as it is taking a concept applied toward some men and trying to attach a victimhood status toward it. Bottom line no man or woman goes anywhere in life if you are cloaked in the victimhood status.


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