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  1. #1

    "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Hello, gentlemen. Long time lurker, first time poster here.

    I routinely follow a website called Zero Hedge and something very interesting was posted there today. I felt like it belonged here for some discussion as it seems appropriate for a MGTOW forum.

    I played fiddle at a small-town, country dance last night with several other musicians and it was a merry enough time because that kind of self-made music has the power to fortify spirits. About half the dancers were over 40 and the rest were teenage girls. The absence of young men was conspicuous. Toward the end of the evening, it was just girls dancing with girls. A wonderful and fundamental tension was not present in the room.The young men are out there somewhere in the country towns, but this society increasingly has no use or no place for them, except in the army. There is absolutely no public conversation about the near total devaluation of young men in the economic and social life of the USA, though there is near-hysterical triumphalism about the success of young women in every realm from sports to politics to business, and to go with that an equal amount of valorization for people who develop an ambiguous sexual identity.

    There really is no local forum for public discussion in the flyover regions of the USA. The few remaining local newspapers are parodies of what newspapers once were, and the schools maintain a fog of sanctimony that penalizes thinking outside the bright-side box. Television and its step-child, the internet, offer only the worst temptations of hyper-sexual stimulation, artificial violence, and grandiose wealth-and-power fantasies. There aren’t even any taverns where people can gather for casual talk. Many of the remaining jobs “out there” are jobs that can be done by anyone — certainly the office work, but also the jobs with near-zero meaning, minimal income, and no status in the national chain burger shacks and box stores — and young women are more reliably subject to control than young men jacked on testosterone, corn syrup, and Grand Theft Auto.

    Of course, the idea that higher education can lift a population out of this vortex of anomie is a cruel joke, especially now with the college loan racket parasitizing that flickering wish to succeed, turning young people into debt donkeys. The shelf-life of that particular set of lies and swindles will hit its sell-by date soon in a massive debt repudiation — and the nation will come to marvel at the mendacious system it allowed itself to get sucked into. But this still only begs the question of what young men will do in such a deceitful system.

    My guess is that they will shift their attention and activity from the mind-slavery of the current Potemkin economy to the very monster we find ourselves fighting overseas: a domestic ISIS-style explosion of wrath wrapped in an extreme ideology of one kind or another replete with savagery and vengeance-seeking. The most dangerous thing that any society can do is invalidate young men. When the explosion of youthful male wrath occurs in the USA, it will come along at exactly the same time as all the other benchmarks of order become unmoored - especially the ones in money and politics - which will shatter the faith of the non-young and the non-male, too. Also, just imagine for a moment the numbers of young men America has trained with military skills the past 20 years. Not all of them will be disabled with PTSD, or mollified with rinky-dink jobs at the Wal-Mart, or lost in the transports of heroin and methedrine.

    The authorities will have no way to understand what is happening and we are certain to endure a long season of violence and social chaos as a result. The re-set from that will be an economy and a society that few now yammering will recognize. That society emerging from the ashes of the current matrix of rackets will desperately need young men to rebuild, and there will be plenty of opportunity for them - though it won’t feature fast cars, Kanye West downloads, or bottle service.

    There are other ways for young men to find a useful and valued place in a society, but these are too far beyond the ken of our current meager narratives.
    What say ye?

  2. #2

    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    I've had very similar thoughts recently, though I couldn't put them together quite so eloquently. I agree wholeheartedly- its the disenfranchised, unemployed and angry who cause trouble. When they are intentionally ignored by the ruling classes, they topple societies. It has happened before, only the divisions were different.

    That being said, I'd recommend you hop over to the Intro section and introduce yourself. The forum has been having a bit of trouble with people who didn't post an introduction causing the wrong kind of commotion, so its really kind of a requirement to be taken seriously around here- not to mention Chairborne or Jagr will smite ye with the banhammer, should you dawdle too much.

  3. #3

    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Thanks for your post.

    That piece was written by James Howard Kunstler, the latest weekly blog from his site. Probably linked on Zero Hedge.

    Just FYI.
    Last edited by BeijaFlor; September 30, 2014 at 5:01 PM. Reason: Add link

  4. #4
    Senior Member jso's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men


  5. #5

    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Let me be the first to validate Godwin's law of internet discussions. All of this reminds me of a quote that was used on a Military (AHC) channel show "Rise of the Third Reich". A diary entry from a young German man in 1930 was quoted as follows: "I was young, had no job, and no where to go; so I joined the Nazi party." Think how many young men are in this position today. It would be easy to radicalize a generation that sees no other alternative.
    Last edited by Mikediver; October 1, 2014 at 2:05 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikediver View Post
    Let me be the first to validate Godwin's law of internet discussions. All of this reminds me of a quote that was used on a Military (AHC) channel show "Rise of the Third Reich". A diary entry from a young German man in 1930 was quoted as follows: "I was young, had no job, and now where to go; so I joined the Nazi party." Think how many young men are in this position today. It would be easy to radicalize a generation that sees no other alternative.
    My grandfather and his 7 brothers were in that position.
    Young men in the midst of the Great Depression, no jobs, no income.
    Whenever my grandfather told the story how he had to fist fight other men to get the honor to shovel snow at a public road for the village for one day so he could bring home some bucks ... his eyes always started flaming with hatred.

    Yes, people were so desperate the punched each others noses for a job that lasted only one day.

    Basically they lived by their little farm, my grandfather raised chickens and rabbits, they grew tobacco and a multitude of other ways to make some bucks.

    And the generation before them lived rather well under the "Kaiser Franz Joseph" and some of my great-grandfathers uncles even were leading officers in the K.u.K Army.

    So basically they knew what a good live looked like until the high inflation 1918 ff. killed the family wealth .. followed by civil war and the Weimar Depression.

    They all joined the Nazi party and within a few years after the "occupation of austria" (basically a political myth) there was no unemployment and new homes, quote: "san wia die Schwammerln aussagschossen" .. "grew like mushrooms".

    Today we know that this sudden growth was only a financial trick pulled of with papers emitted by a nazi-state run company called MeFo where the same paper was circulated, packaged and "sold" again and again, very much like the background of the US-housing bubble. And that freshly printed money was shoved into the parties distribution system (socialism after all)

    But what did the little guy on the street know at that time ? They did not even had radio up until the end of the war and all the news were already controlled (coincidences not coincidental)

    Of course that trickery had to end and the Reich was basically already broke when WW-II started.

    Grandfather was tanker at the west front and in 45 run out of fuel (tanks must be a family trait) and his only surviving brother spent some years in an russian lead mine after Stalingrad.

    The rest did not return.

    When my grandfather returned he threw all the guns in the home into the next lake .. else he never did tell anything about the war.

    Me and my cousins were and are wimps compared to that generation, those were really angry men that took no shit from nobody (even their women) up until high old age where they got a little bit softer.

    And while my grandfather took great care of my grandmother in her last years i doubt she ever was even allowed to raise her voice against him.

    At that time socialism was the "idea" to solve the problems of the present and found many followers on the left and the right.

    Today i am afraid radical islam is another "idea" on how to solve problems and it is spreading not only trough the middle east but also throughout europeans immigrants of muslim faith and also seems to find many followers or "converted" under the homegrown western youths that have no perspective.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Octavian's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    The fruits of feminism , gentlemen.

    The purpose of marriage , among other things, was to ensure each child would be born to his or her father-and as such, would benefit from said man's resources. When thats tossed out as it has by Western Society, men have little reason to support a kid who may or may not be theirs. Worse, money and resources today are being transferred to short sighted women operating on 10,000 year old software-blowing money on vain horseshit while theyre chasing alpha thugs.

    The result-people are being raised with no guidance and no resources . All the dreams in the world add up to jack squat if you dont have the resources to make it happen. Without resources, youre just another disposable body in a sea of them.When youre broke , angry, and looking at a life of irrelevancy ,death and fighting lend a sense of emotional meaning to a young man denied both for most of his life while his mom ignored him in favor of chasing her hypergamy.

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    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    To me the military was always just a job. I joined, quit after a few years and joined again. But Afghanistan gave me a sense of deeper purpose. Violence gives a man clear purpose. It makes one Consequential. I can see the appeal to young men of no consequence and little purpose.
    Who's Chairborne? Office worker & Army Reservist, into electronic music, drummer in a jam band, table-top RPGs, bicycling, X-country skiing, biathlon & marksmanship, TV-free for 15 years.

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    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    And OP, please post an introduction.
    Who's Chairborne? Office worker & Army Reservist, into electronic music, drummer in a jam band, table-top RPGs, bicycling, X-country skiing, biathlon & marksmanship, TV-free for 15 years.

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    Senior Member Victor's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Wiser men have said it better than I, but there are few things so dangerous as a man with nothing to lose.
    Pain is unavoidable. Suffering is optional.

    "Love is for poets." -- Connor MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod

  11. #11

    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Way Of The Monk View Post
    Hello, gentlemen. Long time lurker, first time poster here.

    I routinely follow a website called Zero Hedge and something very interesting was posted there today. I felt like it belonged here for some discussion as it seems appropriate for a MGTOW forum.



    What say ye?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
    I've had very similar thoughts recently, though I couldn't put them together quite so eloquently. I agree wholeheartedly- its the disenfranchised, unemployed and angry who cause trouble. When they are intentionally ignored by the ruling classes, they topple societies. It has happened before, only the divisions were different.

    That being said, I'd recommend you hop over to the Intro section and introduce yourself. The forum has been having a bit of trouble with people who didn't post an introduction causing the wrong kind of commotion, so its really kind of a requirement to be taken seriously around here- not to mention Chairborne or Jagr will smite ye with the banhammer, should you dawdle too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikediver View Post
    Let me be the first to validate Godwin's law of internet discussions. All of this reminds me of a quote that was used on a Military (AHC) channel show "Rise of the Third Reich". A diary entry from a young German man in 1930 was quoted as follows: "I was young, had no job, and now where to go; so I joined the Nazi party." Think how many young men are in this position today. It would be easy to radicalize a generation that sees no other alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyAustrian View Post
    My grandfather and his 7 brothers were in that position.
    Young men in the midst of the Great Depression, no jobs, no income.
    Whenever my grandfather told the story how he had to fist fight other men to get the honor to shovel snow at a public road for the village for one day so he could bring home some bucks ... his eyes always started flaming with hatred.

    Yes, people were so desperate the punched each others noses for a job that lasted only one day.

    Basically they lived by their little farm, my grandfather raised chickens and rabbits, they grew tobacco and a multitude of other ways to make some bucks.

    And the generation before them lived rather well under the "Kaiser Franz Joseph" and some of my great-grandfathers uncles even were leading officers in the K.u.K Army.

    So basically they knew what a good live looked like until the high inflation 1918 ff. killed the family wealth .. followed by civil war and the Weimar Depression.

    They all joined the Nazi party and within a few years after the "occupation of austria" (basically a political myth) there was no unemployment and new homes, quote: "san wia die Schwammerln aussagschossen" .. "grew like mushrooms".

    Today we know that this sudden growth was only a financial trick pulled of with papers emitted by a nazi-state run company called MeFo where the same paper was circulated, packaged and "sold" again and again, very much like the background of the US-housing bubble. And that freshly printed money was shoved into the parties distribution system (socialism after all)

    But what did the little guy on the street know at that time ? They did not even had radio up until the end of the war and all the news were already controlled (coincidences not coincidental)

    Of course that trickery had to end and the Reich was basically already broke when WW-II started.

    Grandfather was tanker at the west front and in 45 run out of fuel (tanks must be a family trait) and his only surviving brother spent some years in an russian lead mine after Stalingrad.

    The rest did not return.

    When my grandfather returned he threw all the guns in the home into the next lake .. else he never did tell anything about the war.

    Me and my cousins were and are wimps compared to that generation, those were really angry men that took no shit from nobody (even their women) up until high old age where they got a little bit softer.

    And while my grandfather took great care of my grandmother in her last years i doubt she ever was even allowed to raise her voice against him.

    At that time socialism was the "idea" to solve the problems of the present and found many followers on the left and the right.

    Today i am afraid radical islam is another "idea" on how to solve problems and it is spreading not only trough the middle east but also throughout europeans immigrants of muslim faith and also seems to find many followers or "converted" under the homegrown western youths that have no perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Octavian View Post
    The fruits of feminism , gentlemen.

    The purpose of marriage , among other things, was to ensure each child would be born to his or her father-and as such, would benefit from said man's resources. When thats tossed out as it has by Western Society, men have little reason to support a kid who may or may not be theirs. Worse, money and resources today are being transferred to short sighted women operating on 10,000 year old software-blowing money on vain horseshit while theyre chasing alpha thugs.

    The result-people are being raised with no guidance and no resources . All the dreams in the world add up to jack squat if you dont have the resources to make it happen. Without resources, youre just another disposable body in a sea of them.When youre broke , angry, and looking at a life of irrelevancy ,death and fighting lend a sense of emotional meaning to a young man denied both for most of his life while his mom ignored him in favor of chasing her hypergamy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Wiser men have said it better than I, but there are few things so dangerous as a man with nothing to lose.
    I've visited many Islamic nations. Given the situation in the west, Islam doesn't really seem like a bad thing - at least we'd have some form of social stability again.

  12. #12
    Senior Member jso's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikediver View Post
    Let me be the first to validate Godwin's law of internet discussions. All of this reminds me of a quote that was used on a Military (AHC) channel show "Rise of the Third Reich". A diary entry from a young German man in 1930 was quoted as follows: "I was young, had no job, and now where to go; so I joined the Nazi party." Think how many young men are in this position today. It would be easy to radicalize a generation that sees no other alternative.
    could be a hitler, or if we're really lucky we could get a tyler durden.



    Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
    (I kinda remember making a very similar point months ago, actually)

  13. #13
    Senior Member jso's Avatar
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    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    basically, the first smart man to realize that there are 3 whole generations of men out there with no direction or purpose, is going to have the most powerful army the human race has ever seen. greater and better than anything rome or the mongols or even america at it's height has ever managed.

    all we are waiting for is some inspiration, and the opportunity. the bad news is, we're not gonna have much of a choice as to who that man will be or what his moral convictions are. it's natural to assume that a lot of men today will crave vengeance. however you want to view it: men have been deprived of justice for so long it will be extremely difficult to recognize it. one thing is for sure, our nation is supposed to be built on the rule of law, and the laws no longer work.


  14. #14

    Re: "We'll Become ISIS" - The Devaluation Of America's Young Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairborne View Post
    To me the military was always just a job. I joined, quit after a few years and joined again. But Afghanistan gave me a sense of deeper purpose. Violence gives a man clear purpose. It makes one Consequential. I can see the appeal to young men of no consequence and little purpose.
    I am a veteran as well. The pay sucked, the hours were long, and the living conditions were worse than prison (I served in submarines). I was from an earlier generation than you. I didn't see bullets flying, but I did fight the height of the cold war. And at that time there was a lot going on that still has not made the history books. The one thing I look back on with some appreciation was the sense of deeper purpose which you describe above. We were doing something that mattered in the world. We were affecting our times. Often since those days, while sitting in a comfortable cubicle, going home every night, taking weekends off, and getting paid three or four times as much, I get the feeling of it all being pointless. If I stop what I am doing now nothing will really change. Back then I was part of something very important, at least it seemed so at the time. I got a call a few years after getting out from a shipmate that got out the same time I did; he asked if I ever missed it. I asked him to name a good day we had in all the years we served together. He named one (two days in Florence while deployed to the Med during the Iranian hostage crisis actually). I asked him to name another; he couldn't. We closed with an understanding that we were glad that we did it and glad that we weren't doing it anymore. One of my sons followed in my footsteps, no matter how much I advised against it. He is out of the service and going to college on the GI bill.


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