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  1. #1
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    I'm tired of red pill infighting

    It seems the sphere is destined to always be taking the piss out of each other. Incel vs MGTOW vs PUA vs the Tomassi led "red pill" group vs .... I simply don't get it.

    Rollo is the person who introduced me to the concept of men maintaining their frame. To me this is the simplest definition of MGTOW. A man who understands female nature, gynocenterism, and chooses to live in his own frame.

    Yeah, but he's an incel, or a virginTOW as Aaron Clarey is fond of saying. So what? What choice does an Incel have, but to become MGTOW.

    Yeah, but he's married. So what? He got married while blue pilled. What choice does he have but to become MGTOW and start to extract himself.

    Yeah, but he's just a PUA. So what? As long as he doesn't wife them up or get them pregnant, he's still living in his own frame. More risk than I want, but that's his own way.

    To me, MGTOW should really be seen as the biggest tent in the sphere. It is essentially synonymous with the red pill in my mind. The only exceptions are douche bags like cypher (the matrix character) who try to get reinserted back into the matrix and start choking down the purple pills.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    This is a result of men not having role models or goals for self improvement. I know older men don't like the idea of self improvement concept when they have already done the heavily lifting that life requires. However, it allows all men young or old to stay focused on being critical of themselves and always looking to better themselves. It is said how you mentally perceive yourself is how you project your physical appearance and attitude.

    The infighting is a result of men thinking in their mind they are maintaining frame by putting down other men as some type of alpha maneuver. But real alpha men in real life, never, never ever put down other men. In fact it is not a coincidence that these same alpha men are also leaders. Even in the realm of men you can't go far being a solo man in this world. That is why leaders recognize you need help and also you delegate power so all men contribute to the "tribe".

    This is why if you look at history the elimination of debt, debt slavery, slavery, and genesis of democracy was a result of Aristocrats at the top realizing they need to give other men a piece of the pie. But the men have to earn a piece of that pie by working hard and creating a symbiotic relationship which is win/win for all involved.

    It is said that women do better organizing as tribal groups which is true because of their herd mentality. But I would counter that men can form strong collective tribes a well when focused on objectives. Likewise, women are capable of having the same failures of men with in group fighting. This is because women are focused on short term goals which often run counter to long term goals.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    This is a result of men not having role models or goals for self improvement. I know older men don't like the idea of self improvement concept when they have already done the heavily lifting that life requires. However, it allows all men young or old to stay focused on being critical of themselves and always looking to better themselves. It is said how you mentally perceive yourself is how you project your physical appearance and attitude.

    The infighting is a result of men thinking in their mind they are maintaining frame by putting down other men as some type of alpha maneuver. But real alpha men in real life, never, never ever put down other men. In fact it is not a coincidence that these same alpha men are also leaders. Even in the realm of men you can't go far being a solo man in this world. That is why leaders recognize you need help and also you delegate power so all men contribute to the "tribe".

    This is why if you look at history the elimination of debt, debt slavery, slavery, and genesis of democracy was a result of Aristocrats at the top realizing they need to give other men a piece of the pie. But the men have to earn a piece of that pie by working hard and creating a symbiotic relationship which is win/win for all involved.

    It is said that women do better organizing as tribal groups which is true because of their herd mentality. But I would counter that men can form strong collective tribes a well when focused on objectives. Likewise, women are capable of having the same failures of men with in group fighting. This is because women are focused on short term goals which often run counter to long term goals.
    There is no one to put down lol because they put down them all before

    You dont become alpha without putting other men down same as you dont become a champion without beating all the others ...

    There must be an infighting . This world is a power struggle whether we want it or not . And its a make believe game . Everyone wants to pull his bullshit on others no matter MGTOW or not .

    And i dont want to listen to any of it and want to have a choice to shut someone up .

    Because we have been raised by fairy tales a lot of anyone knows is just not truth .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  4. #4
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I've noticed how the men putting others down are often the ones more involved with women. The attacks usually go in the direction of blue pill > TRP > MGTOW (bachelors > monks) > incels. So even in this "woke" community some men see others who are less successful with or interested in women as inferior. The indoctrination runs deep.
    Last edited by I'm Gone; April 29, 2019 at 12:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I hadn't noticed that the infighting was still a thing.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Malinois's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I see a few reasons for the infighting, which I agree is annoying but, probably also useful.

    One thing is that every man has a different experience level in life. Combine that with different world views and indoctrinations, itís really a wonder that there are so many of us at all. I think the www has been key to spawning these new intellectual pathways.

    The young man filled up to his ears with testoserone and nearly mind-raping his highschool crush 5 times a day canít see outside his bubble far enough to develop a workable plan to attain his desires. His world is small and self destructive by default and he will become an incel if he cannot manifest some dicipline.

    Now, the young man that was indoctrinated with the highest level of self dicipline also starts out with tunnel vision. However he thrives because of his upbringing and after achieving near perfection in his studies, sports, and self care, he has way more options at his disposal, becoming top tier apex alpha, pushing the boundaries of his bubble.

    And then there are all of the young men at every level between.

    In thirty years time, perhaps a few were able to connect enough dots to conclude that any interaction with anyone that upholds the fairy tale that women are equal to men or that women are somehow more special, well those are boldface lies that our entire ď modern civilizationĒ are now built upon.

    The first young man will be wallowing in misery, if not have committed suicide by now, while the second young man will be chaulking up his third divorce as bad luck, or be trying to drown himself with any number of vices to cope with the fact that every mistake indeed was his fault. And, then there are all of the guys in between.

    Some get as far as PUA because they havent been bitten hard enough yet, some go ghost because they have. But, I think the biggest problem with guys falling off of the MGTOW wagon, even if they have been fucked in the ass by the devil himself, is that they have kept themselves out of harms way for so long, and think that they are immune, so they begin falling back to the original life-script indoctrination they were fed for the first half, which in reality is most of their lives.

    Look at the Muslim indoctrination vs the modern western Christian indoctrination. The Muslims indoctrination seems to safeguard their men from the inherent wickedness of the feral woman better. Interestingly enough, that is the same indoctrination taught to Christians before someone inserted and insisted and propagated the idea that women can be equal in mind, body, and soul. It was actually Christians that invented the burka.

    Now, with billions of men coming from billions of different experiences in life, there is naturally going to be some that canít see or refuse to belive what the next guy is on about.

    The thing with the redpill is, as some often quotes here, our mileage varys. And, then ones that conduct themselves in a disrespectful manner to another manís veiws, have not walked in that other manís shoes and therefore is beneath his experience level.

    I can say, ďfuckn Shaquille OíNeil sucks from the the freethrow lineĒ but, fuckn-a, i couldnt even jog back and fourth on the court as many times as him, and im half his weight...

    The infighting helps us define ourselves. Debate enhances education. Shaming is the voice of weakness. And the red-pill is one hell of a bitter, timeless truth.

  7. #7
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I think it's useful for us to monitor each other's ideas and call each other out when we see something wrong, or maybe about to go wrong. It's the concept of iron sharpening iron. If nothing else, it forces people on the receiving end to re-think what they're all about, which can drift to unhealthy places over time and not be apparent to the individual himself because it occurs in such small increments. Also, before someone criticizes someone else, he has to put his thoughts in order before he writes them down. That process alone can sometimes reveal something useful about himself that he can hopefully use to improve himself.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    The best analogy of the MGTOW mindset is a speedboat on open waters, just ripping along after deciding to not live in the wakes of all the other opinionated ships and boats in the harbor, we avoid all the freak waves, wakes, and turbulence caused by all the other opinionated boats, we fly along on top of the water gaining more distance than any of them, we know who we are and why we are and that's our high test fuel that empowers our refusal to stay in the shipping lanes, harbors, and anywhere the opinionated boats and ships travel. We steer clear of all the traffic and congestion and have no need to explain anything to anyone! Let them mock our rooster tails and speed as we go flying by them while they're bailing water and running bilge pumps!

  9. #9

    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I've seen some of this infighting on youtube, primarily between TFM and his bunch, who are all very emotionally involved with each other. But they are so vitriolic that I don't really listen to them. Then you have guys like Yogi Yoabs who was a dating coach, started attaching MGTOW tags to gain a huge following, then "repented" and basically attacked everyone from Undead Chronic to Hammerhand, I think. And they came swinging back, cause that's what they do.

    Every group will always end up having some infighting, cause animal. It's just how we are. And that kind of competition does help strengthen us, as long as it remains healthy. And it does, among those who practice indifference properly, meaning they'll engage in polite interactions/debate, and not get emotionally invested in things, thereby maintaining frame.

    And though I must say that I kinda have a slight disdain for blackpillers/Incels, it's because they seem VERY emotionally invested in nihilism, cause they get stuck in the Redpill-rage, much like some atheists do. But there are groups who provide effectively safe-spaces on the internet to help new atheists deconvert without going nuts. I consider this forum to be much the same, helping Incels get clean and see that not only has the world not ended, but it's better than ever before.

    Nihilism is an inevitable part of grieving, effectively the "bargaining" phase among those who have had their very paradigm shattered. It happened when I deconverted from Fundamentalist Christianity, and now it's happening while I'm deconverting from Fundamentalist Feminism.

    But in both cases, it's so worth it.
    And it's nothing but wide open prairie...

    There's something very fun about MGTOW. In an odd sense, like charting a new territory of the mind, or rediscovering a long lost civilization. Occult knowledge, secret societies, cannibal natives (THOTS), it's all very exciting... lololol.

    Abandon the Abandoners. Go Your Own Way, on a molecular scale. <3

  10. #10
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    The best analogy of the MGTOW mindset is a speedboat on open waters, just ripping along after deciding to not live in the wakes of all the other opinionated ships and boats in the harbor, we avoid all the freak waves, wakes, and turbulence caused by all the other opinionated boats, we fly along on top of the water gaining more distance than any of them, we know who we are and why we are and that's our high test fuel that empowers our refusal to stay in the shipping lanes, harbors, and anywhere the opinionated boats and ships travel. We steer clear of all the traffic and congestion and have no need to explain anything to anyone! Let them mock our rooster tails and speed as we go flying by them while they're bailing water and running bilge pumps!
    This is the first step . And then you have to answer to yourself - do you feel good ?

    Do you fucking feel good with all this knowledge or you still walk anxious and worried all the fucking time feeling the needles of social pressure pinning you non stop .

    I always say - what good is the knowledge if it makes your life miserable . You have to make it work to your benefit not to your demise .

    Reading a MGTOW forum for years and realizing how good you have it are different things .

    PS.

    There are hundreds of millions of lol males that have a blast in having a wife and children that hey would eat us alive ... Hundreds of millions that would say - if you dont have a wife and children you are a sub human ...
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  11. #11
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Well, if it's INCEL or PUA vs. MGTOW, it's only MGTOW if we're all lumped into the manosphere. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing I have in common with an INCEL or a PUA is a dick. Seriously. Not to outright disparage either group, I just thing this Venn Diagram that puts us all in this manosphere/MRA pot is bullshit. May as well throw in blue-pillers and cucks and call us "teh menz."

    Within MGTOW, I don't think it's so much infighting but a clash of men who are both intelligent and strong in personality. Men who don't take shit off of women or society in general might also not take shit from other men.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  12. #12
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Sakharov View Post
    This is the first step . And then you have to answer to yourself - do you feel good ?

    Do you fucking feel good with all this knowledge or you still walk anxious and worried all the fucking time feeling the needles of social pressure pinning you non stop .

    I always say - what good is the knowledge if it makes your life miserable . You have to make it work to your benefit not to your demise .

    Reading a MGTOW forum for years and realizing how good you have it are different things .

    PS.

    There are hundreds of millions of lol males that have a blast in having a wife and children that hey would eat us alive ... Hundreds of millions that would say - if you dont have a wife and children you are a sub human ...
    All I can say to that is Throttles UP!


  13. #13
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I'll argue this one point till I'm dead. Criticizing Incels is simply punching down in the worst way. If they stay in the rage stage, it is obviously a bad thing. That being said, who says they are stuck there? Certainly, it is their current state. That can't be argued against. MGTOW is their only salvation. It will set them free, but they need to find it first, and they need to be welcomed in when they do.

    If we are indeed trying to help other men, then we owe it to the least of us to exercise a bit of temperance when it comes to criticizing them. Certainly they need to hear the truth, but it can be measured out in doses they can handle as apposed to dumping the whole load of bricks on their heads.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I'll argue this one point till I'm dead. Criticizing Incels is simply punching down in the worst way. If they stay in the rage stage, it is obviously a bad thing. That being said, who says they are stuck there? Certainly, it is their current state. That can't be argued against. MGTOW is their only salvation. It will set them free, but they need to find it first, and they need to be welcomed in when they do.

    If we are indeed trying to help other men, then we owe it to the least of us to exercise a bit of temperance when it comes to criticizing them. Certainly they need to hear the truth, but it can be measured out in doses they can handle as apposed to dumping the whole load of bricks on their heads.
    Yep , if you want to make your students fail - overload them with information . Thats is precisely what is being done to children at schools all over the world .

    Plus there are two sides to everything and MGTOW/red pill is no exception . There is THEM ( women, society... ) and there is You ! And both are equally guilty .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  15. #15
    Senior Member Joetech's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." My house is made of brick. Huff and puff all you like till you're out of breath. I'll be inside laughing and having a beer with my mates.
    "Don't follow in my footsteps. I stepped in something."

  16. #16

    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I'll argue this one point till I'm dead. Criticizing Incels is simply punching down in the worst way. If they stay in the rage stage, it is obviously a bad thing. That being said, who says they are stuck there? Certainly, it is their current state. That can't be argued against. MGTOW is their only salvation. It will set them free, but they need to find it first, and they need to be welcomed in when they do.

    If we are indeed trying to help other men, then we owe it to the least of us to exercise a bit of temperance when it comes to criticizing them. Certainly they need to hear the truth, but it can be measured out in doses they can handle as apposed to dumping the whole load of bricks on their heads.
    I agree, like I said... it's just the vitriol that bothers me. I mean, the first time I went looking on reddit, the Required reading (before posting) list was at least 25 items long. The 2nd on the list was 19 pages, and "skinning women's faces" mentioned on page 2; which is why I call them the Leatherface bunch. I closed out immediately, and it actively retarded my proper education by 8 months. Nobody needs that kind of negativity when they are breaking free.

    MGTOW is the cure for Incels, but much like any addiction, in this case Rage-aholism (a self-help industry term that's clunky as hell) guys just gotta hit rock bottom, bounce a few times, get kicked in the ribs by a mob of ignorant shitheads; and then finally decide to walk away from it all.

    And salvation is their reward.
    And it's nothing but wide open prairie...

    There's something very fun about MGTOW. In an odd sense, like charting a new territory of the mind, or rediscovering a long lost civilization. Occult knowledge, secret societies, cannibal natives (THOTS), it's all very exciting... lololol.

    Abandon the Abandoners. Go Your Own Way, on a molecular scale. <3

  17. #17
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Joetech View Post
    "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." My house is made of brick. Huff and puff all you like till you're out of breath. I'll be inside laughing and having a beer with my mates.
    Brick houses are all fine and dandy until an earthquake comes along! Never ever be complacent! That's when calamity strikes!


  18. #18
    Senior Member O.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    I think part of the infighting is just a reflection of the state of society at this time. I can't think of a topic that could be discuss today without showing the huge division among people today. The world is very very polarized today. Why should our little MGTOW acronym be immune from that polarization? However I would further say that the infighting doesn't mean shit all, to the bulk of us.

    I know in my own case the red pill viewpoint has vastly improved ALL aspects of my life. The realization that you need to lookout for, and cover your own ass first, in all walks of your life is priceless. Red pill vision has me taking a close look at my business dealings, health care dealings, politics, and on and on. I do my best to prevent anything from taking advantage of me anymore. Funny thing is women are the least of those worries now that I am wise to them.

    Many recent threads up on this forum has really driven home a point for me. MGTOW is what you make of it.

    You know the wise crack of "So how's that workin out for you?"

    I can honestly say real real fucking good. Never been in more control of my life and I love it.

    So let em fight, name call, shame, whatever. Just proves to me they have not reached the level of satisfaction with their lives that many of us have.
    "People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings."
    - Nietzsche


  19. #19
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by O.G. View Post
    I think part of the infighting is just a reflection of the state of society at this time. I can't think of a topic that could be discuss today without showing the huge division among people today. The world is very very polarized today. Why should our little MGTOW acronym be immune from that polarization? However I would further say that the infighting doesn't mean shit all, to the bulk of us.

    I know in my own case the red pill viewpoint has vastly improved ALL aspects of my life. The realization that you need to lookout for, and cover your own ass first, in all walks of your life is priceless. Red pill vision has me taking a close look at my business dealings, health care dealings, politics, and on and on. I do my best to prevent anything from taking advantage of me anymore. Funny thing is women are the least of those worries now that I am wise to them.

    Many recent threads up on this forum has really driven home a point for me. MGTOW is what you make of it.

    You know the wise crack of "So how's that workin out for you?"

    I can honestly say real real fucking good. Never been in more control of my life and I love it.

    So let em fight, name call, shame, whatever. Just proves to me they have not reached the level of satisfaction with their lives that many of us have.
    Exactly !

    Women are like Jews just an excuse for all the problems lol . Its like you hate the jewish money system but you want to be rich lol . You hate women but if you could bang hotties you would .

    You would up to the point that you would just not . You dont want to be rich anymore ... And all the pressures of society just cease to exist . Cause they have nothing on you .

    You have to walk away from the illusion of society , from the illusion that you yourself matter to this world but still fight for your life . But fight or race to live better not die fucking more miserable .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  20. #20

    Re: I'm tired of red pill infighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Sakharov View Post
    Exactly !

    Women are like Jews just an excuse for all the problems lol . Its like you hate the jewish money system but you want to be rich lol . You hate women but if you could bang hotties you would .

    You would up to the point that you would just not . You dont want to be rich anymore ... And all the pressures of society just cease to exist . Cause they have nothing on you .

    You have to walk away from the illusion of society , from the illusion that you yourself matter to this world but still fight for your life . But fight or race to live better not die fucking more miserable .
    Nailed it!

    Yeah, I'm finding that the Redpill vision has me considering creative solutions to everything, figuring out ways around the webs of deception that society uses against me. It's very fun.
    And it's nothing but wide open prairie...

    There's something very fun about MGTOW. In an odd sense, like charting a new territory of the mind, or rediscovering a long lost civilization. Occult knowledge, secret societies, cannibal natives (THOTS), it's all very exciting... lololol.

    Abandon the Abandoners. Go Your Own Way, on a molecular scale. <3


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