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  1. #41
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    This is why western societies are morally superior and inspite of the rampant feminism, is still superior to less mechanised, eastern societies.

    The reason is because they have moved beyond silly myths about the world and have had a longer period of developing art, music and culture. This builds 'sensitivity' to pain and pain is avoided as much as possible. Which is a great thing for a man, but only if said man resists the religious or pseudo religious narrative.
    Currently it seems like that but it happens in cycles as the west is about to lose all that knowledge and enter another dark age. Before the west had baby civilizations the east had growing and developed civilizations that had art, music and culture. What allows such knowledge to be lost is the decadence of it all which is why the ancient Romans believed in such cycles.

    Feminism to me is a reproductive strategy that emphasizes resources in greater quantity going to a female compared to traditional gynocentric models. In patriarchal societies in the east and west the head of the household aka patriarch still had to evenly divide those resources to women and his children. Tradcon models are gynocentric but still had an emphasis on the children as well.

    Without that even distribution of resources by the patriarch what you are left with is a future that belongs to those that invest in their children. Those children are the torch of fire that is carried in the future and continue the light. That is why feminism is a dead end and short term reproductive strategy because the emphasis of the resources is to adult women exclusively.

  2. #42
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    Currently it seems like that but it happens in cycles as the west is about to lose all that knowledge and enter another dark age...
    There is one major difference in modern day society compared to old ones, when it comes to cycles. And that is very easy methods of spread of information. Yeah, no doubt western civilization is plagued by feminism, but it isnt that others havent heard of it and are trying to imitate all of that with varying amount and results.

    I live in one of those eastern societies, and yeah situation is not as bad as I hear from westerners, but its getting there. And its getting there fast. But in the process of this imitation, the good also sometimes gets imitated, though much slower than bad things. Like the rise of red pill concept, men's rights and all that. That is also here, we have men's rights groups, and they had some success here and there, even when losing ground if it comes to overall culture.

    I cannot say about other non-western society, but from what I have seen and read about Indian society, I think its like a lagging pendulum trying to chase another pendulum (western society). The chasing pendulum is slow, and thus never goes to as extreme on either side, but still keeps swinging to and fro.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  3. #43

    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post
    Good, I found it. I had the perfect cartoon to reply to this comment. It's not (from the female perspective) about a man's actual value, it's not about his ACTUAL ability, his ACTUAL contributions to society that matter. It's about his social STATUS and how it may elevate hers. It's about his access to resources, and how it may benefit HER. She sees him only as a utility and a source of status in her hive/tribe. That's it. MEN see the value of other men. MEN aspire to be like great men. Women aspire to bridle and utilize such men. You can't see men from a man's perspective and expect women to do the same - their innate narcissism and entitlement (made malignant by feminism) combined with natural hypergamy means you end up with THIS:

    I think I understand you better now. If am not misrepresenting what you said,the male female estimation of value is akin to comparing apples and oranges. However, I think a secondary point to consider is that men are more likely to settle beneath their ideal while women are more inclined in this day and age to continue to gamble for a better payout. Like in a casino, the house always wins and in this case the casino is mother nature. Reminds me of the joke about the spouse store :


    THE HUSBAND STORE

    A store that sells new husbands has just opened in New York City, where a woman may go to choose a husband. Among the instructions at the entrance is a description of how the store operates.

    You may visit the store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the attributes of the men increase as the shopper ascends the flights. There is, however, a catch: you may choose any man from a particular floor, or you may choose to go up a floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the building!

    So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband...

    On each floor the signs on the doors read:

    Floor 1 - These men have jobs.

    Floor 2 - These men have jobs and love kids.

    Floor 3 - These men have jobs, love kids, and are extremely good looking. "Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going. She goes to the fourth floor and sign reads:

    Floor 4 - These men have jobs, love kids, are drop-dead good looking and help with the housework. "Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!" Still, she goes to the fifth floor and sign reads:

    Floor 5 - These men have jobs, love kids, are drop-dead gorgeous, help with the housework, and have a strong romantic streak. She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the sixth floor and the sign reads:

    Floor 6 - You are visitor 3,261,496,012 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.


    THE WIFE STORE

    Floor 1 - has wives that love sex.

    Floor 2 - has wives that love sex and have money.

    The third through sixth floors have never been visited.


    Cheers.

  4. #44
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    We're MGTOW, we cut the elevator cables in the man store, none of our floors can be accessed, try the lesbian transgender store down the street.

  5. #45

    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    @African Doaist.

    Interesting post, some agreement and some disagreement.

    [/COLOR]


    Sorry if this reply might be a bit sparse,I had done a more thorough one earlier but as I clicked submit it
    got erased for some reason which I do not comprehend. I think I might not have been very lucid in my earlier assertions,so let me try to remedy that shortcoming on my part.


    There is no this or that nature. People make choices, and they live by the consequences. It is always anxiety inducing for any person to admit this, but they have to invent something to fill the 'void' of identity.

    Sorry if i am misunderstanding you this point. While on the whole you are right if we consider the fact that choices have both physiological and psychological consequences as has been postulated by epigentics, however i think there might be a bit of disagreement from me on this point because I find it hard to reconcile your response with the fact that there are certain traits which can actually be considered to be quite universal amongst human beings if we are to use that as our template. The emotions of fear,anger, etc have significant effect on our day to day activities even to the point of having a physical analogue I the amygdala. Now to make a choice to respond to stimuli in a manner that would be contrary to how the vast majority of humanity would is to be considered inhuman. Whether that is in a positive direction or negative determines whether the person will be referred to as a saint, sinner,divine, evil,genius or retard. To overcome the inherent constraints which are a result of our biological programming would be a task which the vast majority of humanity seems to be incapable of embarking upon. So I think yes we could say there such a thing as nature if the yardstick by which nature is judged is the tendency to gravitate towards the mean, the outliers while special are rightly considered to be an anomaly and hence treated as such.

    [/COLOR]
    A married man cannot be free. But neither can you be free without a women, you are just less of a slave to the female imperative.



    You are absolutely right that we have our freedom curtailed by societal expectations, yet I don't think we can strictly consider that as a negative. If the negative consequences associated with being a part of a certain social structure was considered to outweigh the benefits then I am quite certain that there would have been a possible backlash . Lest we forget society can only function with the consent of the majority either by collusion, delusion or coercion: even then I would wonder the kind of people who having a majority would be agreeable to being forced to act contrary to their best interests. If the people are a minority then they have probably not left because despite how bad it is, it has not gotten to the point where they deem the consequence of leaving to be minuscule compared to the price to be paid for staying. As has always been the case people will only ever change their perspective when enough pain is introduced but as long as there is some incentive to procure pleasure or avoid pain then that will be the evident choice. So in this scenario I do not think its the women that have to change because they have no incentive to rather its the men who are obliged to change the status quo.

    With all due respect, this is a weak argument.
    Circumcision is practised precisely because it sets a male up for a life of 'enduring'. A circumcied man (like me) cannot find pleasure, not only in sex, but any other sensual body focused activity. Pain is part and parcel of my life and I cannot develop any sensitivity towards any art, music or otherwise.

    So I only know pain and suffering. And on top of that, this becomes my normal mode of existence. Where you falter again sir, is when you say this is good for men. It is only good if you have been brainwashed by the traditional narrative. What is good about not indulging in your desires? What is good about leading a moral life, if it means everyone else gets to the finish line before you?

    I would wager this is a form of self-manipulation (successfully made into a narrative by anti-male cultures) to keep you thinking about how to live a tougher more challenging life, so that others, mainly females can enjoy the goodies.

    If I thought of pleasure and comfort early on in life, I would have more money, more prestige and would be more independent by now. But I could not, or when I found out, it was already too late (anti-male narrative are pernicious in this way).



    Yes, Rome is a good example, too much decadence did lead to its' downfall. But by giving a religious narrative as an 'exit' you have really just replaced one addiction to another. Like when a meat eating, chain smoking person becomes vegan overnight (when in truth neither is healthy).



    reproduction is not the only factor, but one part. Pleasure is another factor. Another factor is the 'psyche' - the irrational side of human beings which they do not explore (because it would cause anxiety). Religion and science both dismiss this as non-sense simply because it cannot be observed or conform to scripture.


    [/COLOR]
    Trying to find purpose and meaning is futile, at least in the pure conceptual sense. There is no such thing as meaning, and if you try to invent it, you probably would end inventing an already invented narrative. Dao, Nirvana etc are other men's views, and you have adopted them into your worldview, and hence they are not 'authentically' found.




    I think first of all we have to define what is meant by suffering and pleasure. If we are to defer to philosophers they would assert that its not really a desire for unending pleasure but rather to mitigate discomfort or pain. Why do I say pursuit of pleasure cannot be the goal? Well, if you continue to chase any form of gratification if it is unattainable it becomes a source of misery because the princess like in mario games, I always in another castle. The unending pursuit of pleasure will inevitably lead to either the person becoming so consumed with the search that they are impervious to reason and it comes with more devastating doses of unhappiness that the goal has not yet been achieved. In the alternate case where the person is able to attain the goal he is bound to feel insecure or fearful about the loss of said pleasure be it a woman, wealth or whatsoever his egocentrism is built upon. Nothing wrong with pursuing pleasure but if that is all we base our life narrative upon it will taste as ashes in the mouth of the mourning.

    If we consider weight lifting it is only when the muscles experience tears that they become stronger,in the martial arts wolfes law rests on the axiom that when the bones of the body are traumatised they become more dense and capable of withstanding more punishment, in essence I think it is natures way of telling us that growth can only come at the price of pain. In a sense I think circumcision is a way to remind us of this law,because the tendency is we are more likely to pursue pleasure and seek ways to avoid pain. If that is not enough reason , I think we could defer to the postulations of Kant which says that it is neigh impossible to know a thing in itself without the taint of our subjectivity coloring it. If the spiritual traditions are to be believed then the necessity of one learning to purge the mind so to say of its attraction to sensual objects becomes a necessity so as to be said transcend the constraints of subjective perspective . So I think they assert that the dulling of the capacity to experience pleasure despite being a rite of passage into the inner knowledge of natures directive to man, also helps the man to seek other avenues of pleasure. Now women also used to be circumcised, so its not only a male thing but I essence there are so many other forms of pleasure one could engage in that are not tied to the sexual organ. Things like the pursuit of knowledge,adventure,power,love(not tainted by eros) etc. I dont think there is anything wrong with making society better because it more than pays for it with the reward of civilisation. Like we all know any society built upon the principle of enforced altruism goaded on by the greed of the decadent will collapse under its own hubris. Venezuela and plenty others attest to that. If there is no incentive to contribute then those who can will either leave or stop will does who can will drive the grsvy train off the cliff of their ignorance.

    You state surprisingly to me that it is futile to live a moral life but I think it is quite evident if you would only consider, that morality is really not for yourself per se but for your neighbour, so as to ensure amicable relations. Even when its for an individuals edification it is in a round about way meant to cut our attachment from seeking gratification of our every desire.

    I think its important to acknowledge that though astronomy displaced astrology, it was the foundation upon which it was built. Though medical doctors are quick to sneer at any unauthorised practise as a sham yet in the past they believed ill health could be remedied by blood letting, understanding humours and introduction of substances with questionable health implications into the body. Yet we did not throw out everything that these traditions had established without placing them under proper scrutiny and discarding what didnt serve and keeping the relevant parts. Religion was our first attempt at everything yet lets not be quick to assert its lack of relevance without propounding a new theory. There are lots of timeless truths to be benefitted from in these books. Sometimes it is true that the interpreter of values was mistaking cause and effect just as lamarck did with evolution yet today his theories a making a come back in the domain of epigenetics. Sometimes some principles might not apply any more due to conditions no longer attainable, I mean no one talks about why biblical strategies for battle are no longer implemented because anyone can see that we dont ride horses into battle anymore yet the timeless principle that maybe a larger number of combatants on your side is an advantage still applies. I mean we can choose to be unimaginative and relegate these books to the trash heap of history or we can see them as the foundational documents of civilisation.

    I dont think the psyche is so irrational as it is evidently desirous of imprinting certain neural patterns with reality but if we acknowledge the roots of the urges it would be hard to distinguish ourselves from the animals we so desperately desire to be superior to. Funny how in animals its called the mating dance or something so obvious it leaves no room for doubt about the intent of the participant's while for humans its called the noble term courtship.

    You assert that there is no meaning to existence but by the same token you admit inadvertently to there being a meaning because you are capable of perceiving patterns which is our interpretation o meaning,not to sound dismissive but have you considered maybe the meaning is beyond our ability to grasp? I mean we are quick as humans to posit that a person of average intelligence would find it hard to follow the train of thought of one who we would consider a genius yet in the same breath we assert that based on our ability to recognise patterns which shows that the universe has patterns, we dismiss there being an over riding pattern? Seems contradictory to me.

    There is no reason to follow buddha, lao tzu or jesus but they have laid a template upon which we can hope to expand but only after comprehending their reasons for the path they chose. I mean no one jumps straight to propounding a theory on how the universe works without a basic understanding of Newtons laws,maybe even the elementary grasp of physics then maybe they can advance to quantum physics, astronomy and possibly if they are bright enough they can propound their own theories. Sometimes even the wrong principles help as a guideline for what wouldn't work,so there is no waste. Religion is merely an exploration of the expressions of conscious embodiment and so we have to take pointers from those who have gone before. I think we all know that not everything our parent's tell us as kids is valid yet we take it on the assumption that they have succeeded with such assumptions thus far and it would benefit us take advantage of their insight,if the time does come when we realise the folly of some of their belief's it will probably be because the ones that worked for us kept us alive long enough to discover that.


    You need to go another step further, Nietzsche offered a way out, which is to keep desiring, wanting, and achieving until you become self-actualised. He also mentioned that the religious narrative was comforting, but only for the weak. He may not be totally right, but he makes a compelling point; since most people are attracted to religion in times of uncertainty.

    How many people are even aware of these perspectives to begin with and secondly how many can follow through when aware. The cry was not for the man who can exercise self governance but rather for the general mass of humanity who need the strait jacket of religion for guidance.

    [/COLOR]
    I think you are way off the mark sir. There is sexualisation yes, but no one is having sex. People are having less sex than even the Middle Ages. You have free pornography to access. You have magazines and hookers, but not actual passionate and engaging sex between two human beings. We are living in the most sexually conservative era.

    Unless of course, you are top 5% of men, in terms of looks AND financial status.

    IF more people were open minded about having sex outside of their 'requirements' there would be a lot more happy people in the world and they wouldn't be trying to find 'purpose' or be attracted to some religious narrative. This sounds like guilty feelings about something which should be enjoyed and celebrated.
    I think the issue is that while we are not having as much sex as previously it has not been proven that people are not masturbating more than at any other time in history. What changed ? Because we always had hands so it must be something else and if you say pornography is more available than at any other time then I have to surmise that it evidently is the case that pornographic material though a symptom is not the cause. I mean just taking a rough daily estimate of people who view porn sites on a daily basis is enough to convince anyone one that while there might be not much intercourse going on,there is a lot of orgasms happening except for those who watch it for research purposes of course... I assure you there is no guilt just a realisation that in all my pursuit of pleasure it has always had pain stalking it like a shadow...I found I could no longer ignore that not because I think pleasure is bad but rather I am not willing to pay the price in pain anymore due to the trajectory I have chosen.
    Cheers.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    That's right! We're not in the wife store!! We're in the titty bar down the street throwing pocket change at them instead!
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    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...


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