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  1. #21
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    Its just that we dont like to think our behaviour and thinking is so conditioned by instincts and society.
    The first step to overcome this conditioning is to recognize it. Its a kind of AA for sex: "hello, I am Manfred and I am a sexaoholic. These are the was my dependency has hurt me and others..."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    ... and being MGTOW is like an alcoholic living in a bar.
    You cannot avoid gynocentric society, it is always in your face poking your instinctive nature.
    All you can do is to remind yourself you are an alcoholic, and you should not believe in your own excuses. "Its just one drink" is the pump&dump equivalent. The "I just use light drugs" is the equivalent to "she is different". And marriage is that booze night that ends up with a terrible hangover and sometimes in jail.

    Like the recovering alcoholic in a bar, all you can say to yourself is: "dont drink it"...

  3. #23
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Well, to clarify, it's the young, fertile, symmetrically-faced, healthy female that has value because for every 1 of her there are 100 men lined up. Sure, top men are in short supply as well, but nature has rigged the game. We want her pussy just a teeny weeny bit more than she wants our resources. But that teeny weeny difference is a complete game changer.

    Also, too, the idea that men can impregnate dozens or 100's of women... this is trust, but it's the woman who has to carry the infant for 9 months. In "days of yore" she was more vulnerable to predators (could not run as fast) and a bad child-birth or pregnancy complications could easily result in her being dead. The guy's biggest risk is a dick infection, or shaming from a community.

    The point is, these statements I make about female reproductive ability having higher value come not from social constructs or feminism or post-modernism but from base biological reality: from evolutionary biology and psychology.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  4. #24

    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    I would say that it is more related to the instinctive need to reproduce than anything else. If we look at what constitutes an attractive woman we find health and symmetry, i.e. :good genes. Clearly attraction is based on good reproductive material.

    Instincts make men value women, and not feminists. The same way people value food, because eating is an instinct.

    People say that we should not compare sex with eating, because a man can survive without sex but not without eating.
    I say that it is a great analogy, the human mind has enough instincts to drive behaviour towards getting nourishment long before it becomes a physical danger.
    Most people wont resist a day without eating, let alone a month.

    This analogy explains all this "value" attributed to wombs. It is the natural instinctive drives towards reproduction.

    Its just that we dont like to think our behaviour and thinking is so conditioned by instincts and society.
    Appeals to nature are considered fallacious for a reason, because something is natural does not necessarily make it the criteria by which to examine its validity. I mean its natural for a baby to crap in their pants, but if an adult did so it would be surmised that the person is physically ill,mentally deficient or is refusing to adhere to the standards of grown up behaviour.

    Also, because in the present age in society women were continually having smoke blown up their asses about how they are goddesses and beautiful at all sizes, shapes and whatsoever, we have fallen into a culture of female worship. Allow me to clarify by stating that religion is basically whatsoever we find occupies our consciousness for longer durations than anything else going on in our lives. Even Paul in the bible illustrated by saying a married man would find it hard to be spiritual because he would be occupied by ways to please his wife.

    Not to bring religion into it but I have to make a point. If you notice in most cultures there is usually a tendency to try to abide by some moral code and what we find is that the most consistent criteria by which you could judge a nations ability to make progress hinges on the control or overcoming of bodily impediments. We find such cultures with rituals such as circumcision to reduce the pleasure experienced during intercourse so as to enable the person to be able to engage in activities that were considered to be more spiritually elevating. Scarification and enduring certain forms of physical discomfort were necessary to prove a man had become mature. Now in modern times we consider it primitive but like is said in the bible "there is nothing new under the sun".

    Is it at all clear to us that at sompointn in the past there was not a large number of societies that indulged their every sexual impulse and consequently had negative outcomes ? I mean look at most societies that eventually collapse and its clear that decadence which is usually tied to moral laxity and excessive indulgence in pleasure is the cause of their decline. Do we think so little of our predecessors that we would assume that every thing theyinstituted was completely devoid of logic?

    I mean come on this is too easy, its easier to pursue pleasure than it is to endure pain: that is human nature. Now as to the notion that there is some instinctive drive towards reproduction then I would have to ask then why did humans then consider it necessary to practice various forms of birth control. Personally, I have never come across a dog that decided that when it was about to ejaculate it would do so on the floor rather than inside the female not to talk of the use of condoms. So I think the case is more likely to be that the reproductive urge pigbacks off the desire for pleasure . And that is a world of difference because essentially it places certain constraint on the kind of behaviour that can be exhibited by such organism. If reproduction is the motivator, I would even go so far as to assert the probability that its stronger in women than men,hence the term baby rabies.

    The whole thing boils down to the fact that most "modern men" do not have a purpose beyond the pursuit of pleasure and hence the female who holds access to one of the greatest psychoactives is essentially held as being a deity. Sodom and gamorra comes to mind from the biblical stories of how a pursuit of excess can result in ones destruction, is the modern day equivalent any different ? It used to be common knowledge that the pursuit of heaven, valhalla,enlightenment, mukti,tao etc was the goal of life and hence every other activity revolved around that central theme. Now we have people who are not even remotely concerned about any such abstractions if it does not in the present state produce them some pleasure. I mean even if they were wrong about there being a heaven and the present day materialist perspective is more realistic, you still have to wonder maybe they tended to be more happy ? After all, if its all meaningless and death is the end? What matters it if you adopt a philosophy that produces more fulfillment in the present state ? We could say with voltaire " if god did not exist it might still be necessary to invent him".

    Its like when Neiztche despaired that god was dead,seems he knew that it would bring with it an existential crisis which would lead to nihilism for most of humanity.

    So to conclude in this present age where we find that there is so much sexualisation going on, think of the fact that the women of victorian times used to be so prudish that they even deemed table legs being uncovered as obscene and then consider the fact that in certain african tribes the women went about virtually unclad and yet there were not men walking around with constant erections in those societies. Sex has always been under control due to an understanding of the havoc it can wreak on society if left unchecked.

    Nowadays even a fully clad woman would elicit a sexual reaction from most men. Basically there is no way to tell the motivations of men in those times as regards the sexual desires they experienced however it seems to me that they were not running around all day looking for ways to please "my lady". We have been excessively sexualised in this age and hence how can the addict know the mindset of a non addict. The addict is continually seeking ways to gratify his desires while the none addict tends to devote time to more gratifying activities. So more than just being a sperm receptacle was expected of women in the past.

  5. #25

    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post
    Well, to clarify, it's the young, fertile, symmetrically-faced, healthy female that has value because for every 1 of her there are 100 men lined up. Sure, top men are in short supply as well, but nature has rigged the game. We want her pussy just a teeny weeny bit more than she wants our resources. But that teeny weeny difference is a complete game changer.

    Also, too, the idea that men can impregnate dozens or 100's of women... this is trust, but it's the woman who has to carry the infant for 9 months. In "days of yore" she was more vulnerable to predators (could not run as fast) and a bad child-birth or pregnancy complications could easily result in her being dead. The guy's biggest risk is a dick infection, or shaming from a community.

    The point is, these statements I make about female reproductive ability having higher value come not from social constructs or feminism or post-modernism but from base biological reality: from evolutionary biology and psychology.
    I beg to differ. Would the man who has 1,000,000 be considered to be inferior to the car he bought for 200,000 ? Not to reduce women to a commodity but for large tracts of time in history they were essentially traded as a good hence why in many cultures there were draconian measures to deal with infidelity. Also do not forget that the women of the past were also required to serve their husbands every need. Furthermore, she was mostly responsible for raising the child from infancy, hence why in many cultures there was a stigma associated with a man cooking,cleaning or doing other household tasks because it was understood that he had paid for such services by paying a premium for her.

    Not to equate marriage with employment but would you consider the employee superior to the employer? Or the prostitute superior to her john? We can go back and forth on this but I think its quite evident that the present template upon which modern society is functioning is what is trying to sell the lie that being a woman makes one to be desired automatically by the whole male strata. But truth be told we all know thats a lie and there are certain women who I would not even touch with my enemy's dick much less mine.

    And also don't forget that women have a tendency to subtly instigate romance: the saying" she lets him chase her till she catches him comes to mind". So except they have no desires and there is no expectation being placed on them, I stand by my initial position. Any wonder why lots of men are walking away from marriage ? And even the ones who do get into that with the traditional expectations in mind and are furious when the woman refuses to honor such. If they were marrying here only for access to her womb then I ask where that anger would emanate from if not tied to the assumption that the woman also has certain obligations to be worthy of the mans investment. Why is it that consistently across most cultures there are similar expectations of fidelity,respect and submissiveness. So no I do not think we just apriori state that women are inherently more valuable. A moot point but think of which of the sexes goes out of their way to be more sexually attractive or rather to conform to the standards of beauty of their culture?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Anyone that values getting laid has allot of work to do on their own character. They're still using the common currency of pussy to estimate the value of life and worse the value of themselves.

    My value is not determined by pussy, it's determined by ME! That's really what this is all about, adjusting our values and placing worth where it ought to be...

    Most of the stuff women say about men is a projection, and eventually men are foolish enough to take it on as their own thoughts. The value determined by female validation or sex.....is a projection from females that base the value of themselves on the type and number of men they can acquire.....cleverly projected onto foolish men that do not see beneath the fallacy.

    It's the same with the term incel........a term used for something that only makes sense if it was referring to love or relationships.......again a clever projection from women onto men. Men are simply too foolish to reject such projections.

    I saw a YouTube comment where a woman said she told her ex bf ''you're only as good as the last gf you had'' <-------clear projection.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  7. #27
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Most of the stuff women say about men is a projection
    Couldn't agree more, but I would add that this is also the case for what they say about other women. All of their detrimental remarks about anyone is really a projection of the things they really despise about themselves. If they can convince themselves that their own abhorrent behaviour is less than that of others then they don't need to reflect on their own shortcomings.
    A woman drove me to drink, and I didn’t even have the decency to thank her. – W. C. Fields

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes

  8. #28
    Senior Member JaydenJazz's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    Was with a blue pill friend of mine and I discussed dating/women.

    He didn't know that I am a MGTOW.
    He was pissed off at these 'MGTOW' people because in his estimation - even a guy like him can get laid.
    Apparently, you have to dress nice, improve your charm, develop social skills and make an effort. Then you are likely to get laid.

    Now I wouldn't say that is false, but I don't get this 'even I can get laid' phrase.
    It seems to be used by many men, and I am thinking it is way exaggerated but often used in conversations to make one feel good about oneself.
    No offense but your friend sounds like a straight up clown. There's no personal achievement in getting laid. Unless if it gets him money, sex is a recreational hobby at best. Plus I bet the girls he lays with are damn near 200 lbs or over and if they are on the chubby side, I'm laughing at his ass. I ain't shaming anyone for getting it in with fat women but don't act like a hot shot about it.

    P.S. Plus your clown friend is also guilty of making the ever common misconception of mistaking MGTOW with Incels. MGTOW have already been on that roller coaster and have no desire getting back on it, hell there are some MGTOW that were once former Gigolos so for him to make the baseless statement he did, probably over some halfbaked video of MGTOW on the internet is straight up dumb.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by African-Daoist View Post
    I agree with most of what you have stated above,however the only difficulty I have is accepting that pussy is by nature inherently more valuable. I mean except we are operating from the premise that the present sexual market dynamics has evolved in a vacuum without consideration as to the environmental factors that create a filter as to the success of any creature then its evident that the right seed is just as valuable as if not more than a female who contributes little beyond her womb. Pussy, per se, is not necessarily more valuable. I said "Young, nubile, fertile, healthy, symmetrical, disease free" aka, the best possible genetic partner. Pussy value is simply a matter of how horny a man is. A man in a slum will pay good money for a fat prostitute with diseases out of sheer starvation. A Chad at a club might forgo sex just to play a new video game with his pals, because he had lots of sex the night before. There is a big difference between the biological value of a high-value female, and the street price of pussy based on availability and men's thirst.

    To clarify, this idea is in no way an original thought of mine. Yet I find it quite ironic that females also have a desire to mate with the males that seem most suitable, in past times the vetting of such men used to be done by the men in that society who accorded respect or even admiration to him and hence his value as a suitable mate was assured by the men in her life which usually ended in a happy union. Nowadays women do the vetting with the associated misery it has come to produce. Good points. Women have always done the choosing, I would think. It's a sellers market. Women don't like competition. When there is only one Chad dick to ride, they don't compete because failure would mean ego death for them. Instead, they happily share CHAD cock... while playing with beta males like pets and making them EARN their indentured servitude. The only reason they get away with the latter is male thirst.


    What I am trying to explain in this roundabout manner is that correlation does not necessarily indicate causation. Because men have traditionally been likely to instigate the mating game does nkt in anyway diminish the value they possess. Because a woman has to invest more in terms of gestation of the child does not mean the man is not tied to constraints produced by virtue of trying to ensure she delivers the child safely. However, if the man is not in the picture,since time immemorial there have been countless ways of terminating an undesired pregnancy except I societies where such things were frowned upon and even then some form of provision was made for the well being of the mother and child. Value is subjective, and it depends on the person doing the judging. A man can be a good community leader, a good example, good with kids, steadily employed - all of these things, but because he's divorce and he's financially strapped, he's of no value.

    In essence I think everyone has drank the feminist coolade that somehow magically places the female as being superior simply because she has a womb forgetting that without the structure of society which was mostly built and maintained by men, then the possibility of the woman bringing the pregnancy to term is slim to none. Because one man can impregnate a hundred women does not automatically mean he can cater to their needs for protection and provisioning without the societal structure which makes it possible . Imagine when humanity was living on the plains of africa how unlikely it would be for a hunter gatherer to protect even just himself how much more a female who is pregnant,then exponentially increase the stakes by adding more pregnant females. I think men have been disposable and taken for granted since the dawn of time. Female entitlement is ingrained genetically into females.

    What I am saying is because they are more invested biologically does not diminish the investment of the man in anyway. And if wombs were so great why did prostitutes not have men quick to snap them up for marriage at all times in the past , granted there are some crazy simps that would do that but by and large it was not usually the case . So having a womb inherently does not grant value to a person, the only value is in the knowledge that the man can use her womb to produce offsprings that would be of benefit to both him and her in the future as he has the resources to see the children to adulthood. Hence, we should not merely stop at the birthing of a child but progress to its logical conclusion and it becomes evident that the man especially in past times was contributing more in terms of nurturing their offspring. Would you rather a tesla was born or a random dumbass who eats,shits, reproduces and then dies? Not to demean human nature but one produces more value than the others. Again, since men are not in short supply and another man can come along for the pussy-for-resources deal, an individual man will always be expendable, no matter how noble the first man is.

    Would the antelope which was being hunted claim superiority to the lion, would the fish claim superiority to the fisher man while trying to regurgitate the hook? Just the same way I find that comparison of male and female sexual strategies to not be a valid criteria to nudge their inherent worth. Sadly in today's society the value of male contribution is being questioned and hence why a lot of men have gone mgtow. Cheers and sorry for the lengthy diatribe. Not al all! I really enjoyed your thought provoking post, but didn't have time to respond to it at work.

    TLDR: Seems we have all drank the feminist coolade that equates having a womb with being more valuable reproductively
    I think society was gynocentric long before feminism showed us true female nature. Women can have it all and still think they're being oppressed. I believe it is genetically ingrained in females to always want more and believe that more is around the corner - aka, hypergamy combined with abundance theory. Since men will just keep doing MORE and MORE and MORE for even more used up and worn out pussy, is it any wonder we have a narcissism epidemic among females today?
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  10. #30

    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post
    I think society was gynocentric long before feminism showed us true female nature. Women can have it all and still think they're being oppressed. I believe it is genetically ingrained in females to always want more and believe that more is around the corner - aka, hypergamy combined with abundance theory. Since men will just keep doing MORE and MORE and MORE for even more used up and worn out pussy, is it any wonder we have a narcissism epidemic among females today?
    Maybe we are using too broad strokes to define this. Let's scale down a little if you would be so inclined. When we talk of gynocentrism we usually tend to look at it from the perspective of western tradition , however in many cultures prior to the influence of western values, women were not really given that much lee way to determine societal value.

    A good example is that in many african societies women were expected to farm, cook,clean and there were many restrictions placed on them as to what influence they could have on society.
    The only time a woman could begin to contribute her perspective was when she had lost her beauty in old age. Female circumcision was also a thing, now westerners call it female genital mutilation while still referring to the same process for males as circumcision, ironic? Anyway I heard a joke about a native american chief being asked what is the mistake of the white man and he said "before they came men fished, hunted, smoked their pipes and relaxed while women did most of the work, only they could think to improve on such a beautiful arrangement". In essence I think we are transferring modern western values to all other cultures. Another example is the muslim injunction to stone a cheating wife to death or to beat your wife if she offends you, again its western men that are the first to condemn such an act as unmanly and to be reproached, forgetting that shariah law also has extreme penalties for stealing by lopping off an arm and also for homosexuality by the same stoning. I don't remember where I read about an European tradition where if there was a dispute between the husband and the wife then the man was buried to his waist and one arm tied to his back and the woman was allowed to move freely while they fought, sometimes I think to the death. Again western culture and gynocentrism. In india it was usually expected that a woman's family paid a dowry to the husband again that does not seem gynocentric to me.

    To come to the point I think even western society had chivalry at some point which was a code os honour amongst knights,and what happened next? The "noble" women appropriated it and made it about them and eventually it spread to the commoners the ideal of courtly love. So I do believe this had an origin and prior to that men were not acting in a subservient manner to females . Don't get me wrong am not trying to shame anyone, maybe it was this harnessing of the sexual impulse to idealise the female that spurred the ascendancy of western civilisation, however we have to accept that everything with a positive impact also has its dark side. So I would suppose little by little over the centuries little by little the women kept pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable. Are you aware some of the first feminists engaged in terrorist activities to force the state to give them the right to vote? Yet oddly enough they were no where to be found for the draft when war started. Women have been excluded from inheriting property in most cultures, that does not seem very gynocentric to me, it usually goes to the first male child.

    So I think fair enough western men wanted to treat their women with dignity but as Neitzche said woman only understands the master /slave relationship. In most cultures where accountability was expected of women the expectation was that there would be certain concessions made for them to ensure they do not end up in a hopeless situation. I dont think this is gynocentric but social welfare same as is done for any less privileged male or female. I dont know where western society got the concept of alimony from but in the quran it is encouraged for the man to help out his spouse whom he has divorced. I think we should not label every advantage women had in society as gynocentrism because it fails to take into account the advantage men used to have. A case in point, in islam the testimony of one man stands but it has to be two women to make their testimony of equal worth. Probably because females tend to lie a lot and its easier during cross examination to determine if they are telling the truth by examining them seperately. So essentially I think thats why most men are feeling like twits right now with the #metoo movement because a womans word is taken as gospel truth but in islam they usually presume the opposite. Not to place anyone above the other just to show that essentially every system has its flaws.

    I think the only problem is that initially it was understood that a woman had to compensate for the advantages she was given in society hence she had expectations placed upon her. Else if she acted in a manner unbecoming of a virtuous woman what was to stop the man from divorcing her and finding a new mate once her beauty had started to fade. So in a sense yes women can negotiate with their beauty as leverage but if thats all she has to offer then she will eventually get discarded, like a chinua achebe said "the beautiful ones are not yet born". In the end I think the problem is that since the advent of feminism women have been trying to turn the world into a gynocentric safe space, they want the advantages without the responsibility that comes with it. Again thats why men are checking out because even the thick skulled understand the necessity of checks and balances. The notion that a man is to be grateful for even being graced with her attention is enough of an insult to turn off most men who have even a shred of dignity.


    In the end I think I can agree that women have certain advantages in society but so do men, like is said the glory of a woman is her beauty and the beauty of a man is wisdom. We operate with different tools so the expectations and rewards cannot be expected to be similar. Cheers

  11. #31
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    The only advantage men have is that we are men. Male privilege exists, but it is not the kind of privilege that is bestowed upon you in the form of extra rights. It is the privilege that comes from being a more capable being.

    The concept of gratitude is important. If there is a supreme being or god, then it makes sense that we should show gratitude. Likewise, women should be grateful for the men in there life, but they no longer are. Why continue to provide for someone who is not even grateful?

  12. #32
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    The only advantage men have is that we are men. Male privilege exists, but it is not the kind of privilege that is bestowed upon you in the form of extra rights. It is the privilege that comes from being a more capable being.

    The concept of gratitude is important. If there is a supreme being or god, then it makes sense that we should show gratitude. Likewise, women should be grateful for the men in there life, but they no longer are. Why continue to provide for someone who is not even grateful?
    Not only no gratitude, but we're left to stew in the juices of INGRATITUDE!

    Honestly, our numbers are "organically growing" exponentially! Now the gas they attempt to throw on the fire is pre-igniting from the intense heat, and the iron cradle of civilization is warping, cracking, and liquefying from the intense inferno of feminism. Some houses are beyond salvation after a blaze is fanned by relentless winds, and that's what we've become, a divided house ablaze in the winds of change. Homes are for families anyway, not for looting, plundering, and stealing, better to let it burn to a cinder along with the fields. Home is where your heart is.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    The only advantage men have is that we are men. Male privilege exists, but it is not the kind of privilege that is bestowed upon you in the form of extra rights. It is the privilege that comes from being a more capable being.

    The concept of gratitude is important. If there is a supreme being or god, then it makes sense that we should show gratitude. Likewise, women should be grateful for the men in there life, but they no longer are. Why continue to provide for someone who is not even grateful?
    Women are capable beings like men but they lack the will power to be like men. Instead women invest their will power arm twisting men to do their bidding because it works better now in the current society.

    It is often said men don't hold women accountable which does have a point. But in the end women have to hold other women accountable and that is what has been lost from society. Women do not have the will power to hold other women accountable and thus they go for the easier path. That easier path is to keep testing men with fitness and shit tests that go above and beyond what is normal for mate testing and it is reaching a boundary that is truly artificial. That artificial boundary is borne from the fact that women are overcompensating with their fitness and shit tests for men, because of the uncertainty in themselves and lack of will power improving themselves is growing.

    It is ironic that women are growing more discontent and unhappy and it is a result of not holding themselves accountable.

  14. #34
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    Women are capable beings like men but they lack the will power to be like men. Instead women invest their will power arm twisting men to do their bidding because it works better now in the current society.

    It is often said men don't hold women accountable which does have a point. But in the end women have to hold other women accountable and that is what has been lost from society. Women do not have the will power to hold other women accountable and thus they go for the easier path. That easier path is to keep testing men with fitness and shit tests that go above and beyond what is normal for mate testing and it is reaching a boundary that is truly artificial. That artificial boundary is borne from the fact that women are overcompensating with their fitness and shit tests for men, because of the uncertainty in themselves and lack of will power improving themselves is growing.

    It is ironic that women are growing more discontent and unhappy and it is a result of not holding themselves accountable.

    In my youth I once asked a female friend of mine what she wanted out of life. When she replied ‘I just want to be happy’ I accepted this as a reasonable response, after all who doesn’t want to be happy?

    A few years went by and I slowly noticed that she equated being happy with having fun and while there is certainly some correlation there the two things are not the same.

    She went about her life ‘having fun’ socialising, working on her personality, getting involved in the latest fad and occasionally getting involved with those she deemed desirable. She was quite attractive and still is, at least for her age.

    Has she found the happiness she claimed she wanted in her youth? Not at all. Her superficial attitude towards happiness has left her with few friends and her ‘socialising’ is now predominantly with her family (parents, brother, sisters, cousins etc.). Her long term relationship has dissolved and she is a single mother with so many debts that she cannot see her way clear and no longer even tries. Instead of enjoying middle age she is becoming more angry and bitter with the world as the years go by. No longer with a man in her life to carry her she can no longer afford to ‘have fun’ like she used to and her ‘happiness’ seems to have dissipated with that realisation.

    All of her problems seem to be someone else’s fault, after all she’s just trying to take a bit of fun from life. But where is the accountability? Where was her thought for her own future wellbeing?

    Without honest reflection, introspection and planning for our futures we are little different from any of the other animals we share this planet with.
    A woman drove me to drink, and I didn’t even have the decency to thank her. – W. C. Fields

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes

  15. #35
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by African-Daoist View Post
    I beg to differ. Would the man who has 1,000,000 be considered to be inferior to the car he bought for 200,000 ? Not to reduce women to a commodity but for large tracts of time in history they were essentially traded as a good hence why in many cultures there were draconian measures to deal with infidelity. Also do not forget that the women of the past were also required to serve their husbands every need. Furthermore, she was mostly responsible for raising the child from infancy, hence why in many cultures there was a stigma associated with a man cooking,cleaning or doing other household tasks because it was understood that he had paid for such services by paying a premium for her.

    Not to equate marriage with employment but would you consider the employee superior to the employer? Or the prostitute superior to her john? We can go back and forth on this but I think its quite evident that the present template upon which modern society is functioning is what is trying to sell the lie that being a woman makes one to be desired automatically by the whole male strata. But truth be told we all know thats a lie and there are certain women who I would not even touch with my enemy's dick much less mine.

    And also don't forget that women have a tendency to subtly instigate romance: the saying" she lets him chase her till she catches him comes to mind". So except they have no desires and there is no expectation being placed on them, I stand by my initial position. Any wonder why lots of men are walking away from marriage ? And even the ones who do get into that with the traditional expectations in mind and are furious when the woman refuses to honor such. If they were marrying here only for access to her womb then I ask where that anger would emanate from if not tied to the assumption that the woman also has certain obligations to be worthy of the mans investment. Why is it that consistently across most cultures there are similar expectations of fidelity,respect and submissiveness. So no I do not think we just apriori state that women are inherently more valuable. A moot point but think of which of the sexes goes out of their way to be more sexually attractive or rather to conform to the standards of beauty of their culture?
    Good, I found it. I had the perfect cartoon to reply to this comment. It's not (from the female perspective) about a man's actual value, it's not about his ACTUAL ability, his ACTUAL contributions to society that matter. It's about his social STATUS and how it may elevate hers. It's about his access to resources, and how it may benefit HER. She sees him only as a utility and a source of status in her hive/tribe. That's it. MEN see the value of other men. MEN aspire to be like great men. Women aspire to bridle and utilize such men. You can't see men from a man's perspective and expect women to do the same - their innate narcissism and entitlement (made malignant by feminism) combined with natural hypergamy means you end up with THIS:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  16. #36
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    I just commented on a Jordan Peterson video where he was talking about LOW STATUS men.

    I said that society doesn't differentiate between a LOW STATUS man or a LOW VALUE man.

    As a MGTOW you can have incredible value to your parents, your children, your family, your profession and any organization or institution in which you invest yourself. By that definition you can be a very HIGH VALUE man. But if you don't succumb to pussy worship and "die to get the girl", you've immediately handed in your "man card" and have zero STATUS.

    High status: Having the material shit and image THEY want me to have.
    High value: Succeeding in the things I value and sharing the spoils with those who matter to me.

    I could give ZERO FUCKS about society and their appraisal of my status, especially when those doing the appraising are single, nasty, worn-out, post-wall hags my age who think they're entitled to marry Ryan Reynolds.

    There is a difference between "having nothing to offer" and OFFERING NOTHING!

    For me, MGTOW is that difference.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  17. #37
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    @African Doaist.

    Interesting post, some agreement and some disagreement.

    Appeals to nature are considered fallacious for a reason, because something is natural does not necessarily make it the criteria by which to examine its validity. I mean its natural for a baby to crap in their pants, but if an adult did so it would be surmised that the person is physically ill,mentally deficient or is refusing to adhere to the standards of grown up behaviour.


    There is no this or that nature. People make choices, and they live by the consequences. It is always anxiety inducing for any person to admit this, but they have to invent something to fill the 'void' of identity.

    Also, because in the present age in society women were continually having smoke blown up their asses about how they are goddesses and beautiful at all sizes, shapes and whatsoever, we have fallen into a culture of female worship. Allow me to clarify by stating that religion is basically whatsoever we find occupies our consciousness for longer durations than anything else going on in our lives. Even Paul in the bible illustrated by saying a married man would find it hard to be spiritual because he would be occupied by ways to please his wife.


    A married man cannot be free. But neither can you be free without a women, you are just less of a slave to the female imperative.

    Not to bring religion into it but I have to make a point. If you notice in most cultures there is usually a tendency to try to abide by some moral code and what we find is that the most consistent criteria by which you could judge a nations ability to make progress hinges on the control or overcoming of bodily impediments. We find such cultures with rituals such as circumcision to reduce the pleasure experienced during intercourse so as to enable the person to be able to engage in activities that were considered to be more spiritually elevating. Scarification and enduring certain forms of physical discomfort were necessary to prove a man had become mature. Now in modern times we consider it primitive but like is said in the bible "there is nothing new under the sun".

    With all due respect, this is a weak argument.
    Circumcision is practised precisely because it sets a male up for a life of 'enduring'. A circumcied man (like me) cannot find pleasure, not only in sex, but any other sensual body focused activity. Pain is part and parcel of my life and I cannot develop any sensitivity towards any art, music or otherwise.

    So I only know pain and suffering. And on top of that, this becomes my normal mode of existence. Where you falter again sir, is when you say this is good for men. It is only good if you have been brainwashed by the traditional narrative. What is good about not indulging in your desires? What is good about leading a moral life, if it means everyone else gets to the finish line before you?

    I would wager this is a form of self-manipulation (successfully made into a narrative by anti-male cultures) to keep you thinking about how to live a tougher more challenging life, so that others, mainly females can enjoy the goodies.

    If I thought of pleasure and comfort early on in life, I would have more money, more prestige and would be more independent by now. But I could not, or when I found out, it was already too late (anti-male narrative are pernicious in this way).

    Is it at all clear to us that at sompointn in the past there was not a large number of societies that indulged their every sexual impulse and consequently had negative outcomes ? I mean look at most societies that eventually collapse and its clear that decadence which is usually tied to moral laxity and excessive indulgence in pleasure is the cause of their decline. Do we think so little of our predecessors that we would assume that every thing theyinstituted was completely devoid of logic?
    Yes, Rome is a good example, too much decadence did lead to its' downfall. But by giving a religious narrative as an 'exit' you have really just replaced one addiction to another. Like when a meat eating, chain smoking person becomes vegan overnight (when in truth neither is healthy).

    I mean come on this is too easy, its easier to pursue pleasure than it is to endure pain: that is human nature. Now as to the notion that there is some instinctive drive towards reproduction then I would have to ask then why did humans then consider it necessary to practice various forms of birth control. Personally, I have never come across a dog that decided that when it was about to ejaculate it would do so on the floor rather than inside the female not to talk of the use of condoms. So I think the case is more likely to be that the reproductive urge pigbacks off the desire for pleasure . And that is a world of difference because essentially it places certain constraint on the kind of behaviour that can be exhibited by such organism. If reproduction is the motivator, I would even go so far as to assert the probability that its stronger in women than men,hence the term baby rabies.
    reproduction is not the only factor, but one part. Pleasure is another factor. Another factor is the 'psyche' - the irrational side of human beings which they do not explore (because it would cause anxiety). Religion and science both dismiss this as non-sense simply because it cannot be observed or conform to scripture.

    The whole thing boils down to the fact that most "modern men" do not have a purpose beyond the pursuit of pleasure and hence the female who holds access to one of the greatest psychoactives is essentially held as being a deity. Sodom and gamorra comes to mind from the biblical stories of how a pursuit of excess can result in ones destruction, is the modern day equivalent any different ? It used to be common knowledge that the pursuit of heaven, valhalla,enlightenment, mukti,tao etc was the goal of life and hence every other activity revolved around that central theme. Now we have people who are not even remotely concerned about any such abstractions if it does not in the present state produce them some pleasure. I mean even if they were wrong about there being a heaven and the present day materialist perspective is more realistic, you still have to wonder maybe they tended to be more happy ? After all, if its all meaningless and death is the end? What matters it if you adopt a philosophy that produces more fulfillment in the present state ? We could say with voltaire " if god did not exist it might still be necessary to invent him".


    Trying to find purpose and meaning is futile, at least in the pure conceptual sense. There is no such thing as meaning, and if you try to invent it, you probably would end inventing an already invented narrative. Dao, Nirvana etc are other men's views, and you have adopted them into your worldview, and hence they are not 'authentically' found.

    Its like when Neiztche despaired that god was dead,seems he knew that it would bring with it an existential crisis which would lead to nihilism for most of humanity.

    You need to go another step further, Nietzsche offered a way out, which is to keep desiring, wanting, and achieving until you become self-actualised. He also mentioned that the religious narrative was comforting, but only for the weak. He may not be totally right, but he makes a compelling point; since most people are attracted to religion in times of uncertainty.

    So to conclude in this present age where we find that there is so much sexualisation going on, think of the fact that the women of victorian times used to be so prudish that they even deemed table legs being uncovered as obscene and then consider the fact that in certain african tribes the women went about virtually unclad and yet there were not men walking around with constant erections in those societies. Sex has always been under control due to an understanding of the havoc it can wreak on society if left unchecked.


    I think you are way off the mark sir. There is sexualisation yes, but no one is having sex. People are having less sex than even the Middle Ages. You have free pornography to access. You have magazines and hookers, but not actual passionate and engaging sex between two human beings. We are living in the most sexually conservative era.

    Unless of course, you are top 5% of men, in terms of looks AND financial status.

    IF more people were open minded about having sex outside of their 'requirements' there would be a lot more happy people in the world and they wouldn't be trying to find 'purpose' or be attracted to some religious narrative. This sounds like guilty feelings about something which should be enjoyed and celebrated.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Yes, I think women finally figured out how to fuck only top tier men. Some of the decent looking men trudging around with ham planets just proves the thirst level out there is reaching critical mass. But, these guys will STILL never commit to said planet of ham. She will be online posting "WHATGMG" whine posts (Where Have All The Good Men Gone) when she's post wall.

    Other women, still, have so much money coming in from welfare and child support that they barely have to work, if at all. Making babies is a career for them.

    So, these women "don't need no man". Fantastic. So why are they still pursing men for long term relationships that end up in cohabitation? A: Hypergamy - get that second income! Women want the man's income for all that pesky living expense stuff. Housing, utilities, vehicles, maintenance... her money is HER money. For clothes shoes and hair.

    Yeah, that's not a good deal for me and my kids. Buy your own shit "equal" bitches.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  19. #39
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    Circumcision is practised precisely because it sets a male up for a life of 'enduring'. A circumcied man (like me) cannot find pleasure, not only in sex, but any other sensual body focused activity. Pain is part and parcel of my life and I cannot develop any sensitivity towards any art, music or otherwise.
    Circumcision is on the things that gets me angry every time I read or think about it. Its not just that its done to little boys or even infants sometimes, but normal sane people consider it fine. And as an insult to injury, they find female genital mutilation "barbaric". Maybe they havent seen how circumcision is done in less civilized situations. Or maybe they have, or heard about it, but just dont care.

    Bad things happening to males doesnt cause any alarm to blue pill zombies, unless and until its their own nuts get under the chopping block (metaphorically).
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: 'Even a guy like me can get laid'

    Maybe they havent seen how circumcision is done in less civilized situations.
    This is why western societies are morally superior and inspite of the rampant feminism, is still superior to less mechanised, eastern societies.

    The reason is because they have moved beyond silly myths about the world and have had a longer period of developing art, music and culture. This builds 'sensitivity' to pain and pain is avoided as much as possible. Which is a great thing for a man, but only if said man resists the religious or pseudo religious narrative.


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