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  1. #61
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    All this could have been avoided if these questions were asked during the intro phase. TC didn't provide enough information to satisfy membership on this forum. Maybe he isn't articulate, maybe he is not ready, or he just doesn't understand what MGTOW is all about. Maybe he has a very peculiar view on MGTOW which nobody can relate to.

    I don't think he is a troll, maybe he just doesn't really fit in to this forum.
    TC, I hope you can understand that the fellow members like to ask questions and sometimes yes they can be critical.

    It sounds like you are sensitive to criticism which is understandable. But if you want to allay the members anxieties about your intentions, then you need to engage with the questions they have asked.

    I hope the fellow members learn that all this drama could have been avoided if they didn't say welcome straight away and allowed the would be member to share more information about himself during the intro phase.

  2. #62
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABigSiameseCat View Post
    Nah, no worries, I have a Brussel Sprout, onion, pepper, and squash recipe that can move nearly immovable objects such as what that cheese pizza would create in your gut. Add a few jalapenos for extra oomph!
    Oh no... too high a price to pay. The acronym "SAP" comes to mind:

    Sorest Asshole Possible


  3. #63

    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by kru-kut View Post
    Oh no... too high a price to pay. The acronym "SAP" comes to mind:

    Sorest Asshole Possible

    It will "toughen you up" after than Americanized Mexican food will be a breeze! Now those burritos made by real Mexicans, those do have the potential for SAP syndrome.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    Look man, no offense, but that whole first post comes across as feeling sorry for yourself. But I mean you are a guy in your 40's, (based on your intro) who walked into a pizza place, and you saw a hot girl. You noticed her, and wanted her attention, but did absolutely nothing to get it. She didn't notice you, and nothing happened. I mean, what were you expecting? How many average guys do you know who just walk into a pizza place and walk out with a hot girl on their arm?

    Undoubtedly most men would have wanted her, I doubt you were looking at someone in her 40's who is well past the wall. She can go on Tinder and literally within minutes have HUNDREDS of matches. You have to compete with all of those guys if you want THAT girl. (or, you can go someplace like southeast asia, where you can have better girls a lot easier, but that's another story)

    What can you offer her that would make you stand out? Do you work out regularly, and are you in excellent shape? Do you make a lot of money and have a lot of wealth? Do you have any interests or accomplishments that make you unique like say, playing a musical instrument in a band or competing in combat sports? Are you really good-looking? What would make a girl like that want a guy like you out of all her potential suitors?

    What have you done with your life so far? What are you currently doing? If you don't have missions and goals for yourself, then yeah, you're gonna walk around miserable all the time. AND you're not going to get any girls. So of course you will be depressed, because you won't have anything going on in your life to feel good about. It's a vicious cycle. Even if you GET girls, that is still a dangerous cycle that will lead to depression.

    MGTOW offers you an alternative path, one which is ultimately better for you. If you focus on yourself, you can do things with your life and find things outside of relationships and women to make you happy. Not only is this better for you than simply being unhealthily fixated and obsessed with women, it will actually HELP YOU GET WOMEN. Even at your age in your 40's, a guy like you could still be cleaning up in places like Southeast Asia or South America. You could vacation or even retire in one of those places.

    Stop focusing on women so much. The real questions you should be asking yourself are these:

    -What do I want to do MOST with my life? (anything involving women does NOT count on this question)
    -What can I do right now to make my life BETTER? (again, NO WOMEN; focus strictly on yourself)
    -What are some positive long-term goals I can work towards that will allow me to have a better life in the future? (examples: early retirement, relocation to an area you want to live in, better career, finding a way to earn passive income, minimize expenses, work less, etc.)
    -What are some hobbies and interests I would like to pursue? (You've had your WHOLE LIFE to discover the things you love; if you haven't discovered things like this that you love, you simply ARE NOT TRYING)

    These are just a few questions to help you get started. You can solve your problems with women, but only if you address those MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS first. There is a void in your life, and even if you did manage to attract a woman, she WOULD NOT FILL THAT VOID. You would simply become codependent on her, and you would be crushed when she noticed this and dumped you. When you get to a point where you don't give a fuck about losing any of the women you are dating, you will know you're on the right track. But for now, I think you need to focus on your own life.

    BTW, not trying to sound harsh, critical, or judgmental. I really want to help you. I think all of us have probably been in your shoes at one point, or can relate in one way or another.

    You win in life when you find things you care about more than girls, and spend as much of your time and energy doing those things as you can. If you have no passions like that, women will consume all your time, mental energy, and resources, and you will lose.
    Even if you was all those things it would still be meh and you would still have to compete against an instagram billionaire from tropical islands , a NHL rookie , a couple of lesbians , some 35 black guys she digs ...

    LOL here a few instagram starlets had a beef among themselves recently because they all were going to Houston to meet the same NBA player
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  5. #65
    Senior Member Don Keyknob's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxicollector View Post
    I formally request a self ban then. Man you guys are nuts.
    To be fair TC, you must understand that a site like this does attract trolls. The membership usually has a good nose for flushing out people who are not on the level. This includes those who are reluctant to give people a chance when they see a dodgy post, those who are willing to give every available opportunity to rectify the situation...and several members who are in between those two trains of thought.

    The Moderators are in an unenviable position. They don't want to allow access to trolls, who ruin it for everybody, but nor do they want to ban people before they have found their feet. It is a fine balancing act.

    If you'd like to become a member of the forum, the responsibility is initially in your court. Not all posts are winners and often can sometimes come across as suspect. Especially when you first start. No disrespect, but your pizza tale was a little strange. Instead of getting defensive about it, you would be better employed in just biting the bullet and trying to get along - without insulting people.

    Xanthine's most recent post to you would go a long way in rectifying the situation if that is something you would be interested in doing. The into's are important, but you should understand that all posts from new members may possibly draw scrutiny.

    If you are genuine and you prove yourself to be so, I'm sure that you will be welcomed, enjoy the site and forget any unpleasantness thus far - so don't be so hasty in your willingness to throw in the towel. If you feel that you are not able to spend a small amount of time in proving your credibility, then good luck to you anyway.

  6. #66

    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABigSiameseCat View Post
    Excellent post, Xanthine! Your post is worthy of being saved, it deserves better than to languish in this thread. I hope you save it and perhaps start a new thread, maybe along the lines of "My life sucks, how can I make it better?" as your post has useful advice to address that questions which almost every man has felt as some point.
    Thank you BSC! Every now and then, I will think I have something figured out, something that has helped me which could also help other men. That's part of the reason I post on here. I want to see if I can help people, and I also want to see if I'm really on to something, or if I'm just trippin. I know that if I'm way off, you guys will present counter-points that will level my own perspective. Worst case scenario, we all agree to disagree, but there is really nowhere else where you can get a balanced, rational discussion on complex issues like these.

    Anyway, I will start thinking of ways I can create my own topics. That's something I've been wanting to do for awhile. Somehow I always end up reading stuff on here, then posting a response, but every now and then I think I have an idea that is worthy of its own post.

  7. #67

    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Sakharov View Post
    Even if you was all those things it would still be meh and you would still have to compete against an instagram billionaire from tropical islands , a NHL rookie , a couple of lesbians , some 35 black guys she digs ...

    LOL here a few instagram starlets had a beef among themselves recently because they all were going to Houston to meet the same NBA player
    You're exactly right Alik. The fact of the matter is, average guys are not competing with the top 20%. They are competing with the top ONE percent. Maybe less than one percent. That's something a lot of people can't wrap their head around, but I've proven it many times. For example, how many guys are taller than six feet and make a six figure income? Well, both figures put you in the 95th percentile, so the equation looks like this:

    0.05 x 0.05 = 0.0025 or 0.25% of guys who meet JUST THOSE TWO CRITERIA.

    How many women want a guy who, at minimum, has a six figure income and is at least six feet tall? You see what I'm getting at? It is an infinitesimally small percentage of guys who meet all the criteria on their ridiculous bullet point lists. I could easily throw in a few extra criteria and make it a tiny percentage of 0.25%, but you get the idea.

    My point is that these are the guys most women are chasing. And even though this is a very, VERY small percentage of the male population, these women DON'T REALIZE IT. Try explaining this math sometime to a chunky 6/10 after she tells you everything she expects in a man, her reaction will be priceless. But since they don't realize how few of these men exist, they will never stop chasing them, and believing they can get one. And they believe it, because they are able to find guys like that to have sex with, but they do not understand that while these guys will have sex with them, they would NEVER commit to them. But women simply cannot figure this shit out, it's too fucking simple and logical.

    The bottom line is, if you're an average guy, you really don't stand a chance of attracting the top tier women here. You really don't stand a chance with a 9/10, most 8/10's, or even most 7/10's. But I wasn't trying to completely crush that guy's spirit or anything. But you are absolutely right, you're literally competing with fucking NHL players, billionaires, and every other random guy she could possibly be attracted to for whatever reason.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Don Keyknob's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Hey....I'm six foot AND a quarter of an inch. AND I make six figures!!!!!!

    0.00000..... EVERY YEAR....without fail.

    Too late ladies...I went MGTOW and I'm never coming back!!!!

  9. #69

    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Xanthine, you are on a (pizza) roll tonight! You expand further upon the fact that if one is of average height, like me, you have only the choice between MGTOW, Simp and Beta Wallet. One can fool oneself with regard to how attractive one is, or how charming, ect. But you can't fool yourself how tall you are or how much you make. Realizing that you can't compete with the 0.25% is a very liberating experience. NO need for stylish clothes, unless your job requires it, or an expensive car, ect. Save up for an early retirement (make sure you diversify your assets) or work a minimal amount and live the semi retired life right now.

    Imagine the resource sucking these thots intend upon those making hefty 6 figure amounts. Eeeeek.

  10. #70
    Moderator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    All this could have been avoided if these questions were asked during the intro phase. TC didn't provide enough information to satisfy membership on this forum. Maybe he isn't articulate, maybe he is not ready, or he just doesn't understand what MGTOW is all about. Maybe he has a very peculiar view on MGTOW which nobody can relate to.

    I don't think he is a troll, maybe he just doesn't really fit in to this forum.
    TC, I hope you can understand that the fellow members like to ask questions and sometimes yes they can be critical.

    It sounds like you are sensitive to criticism which is understandable. But if you want to allay the members anxieties about your intentions, then you need to engage with the questions they have asked.

    I hope the fellow members learn that all this drama could have been avoided if they didn't say welcome straight away and allowed the would be member to share more information about himself during the intro phase.
    Like you, I believe the word "Welcome" is the magic ticket and should not be used as a mere greeting but as the signal of acceptance and should be held back until meant as acceptance. With continued adherence to this idea, new guys will see that, methinks. How do I say this next part with amity... if we can just get it to where the newbie is not attacked in his Intro but instead informed what he is missing and is needing to provide, perhaps we can better catch the marginal communicators. Yet, I have seen times where a loud pointed statement, devoid of tact, has quickly brought a newbie to his senses without offense either direction. It's amazing, like two buddies who knew each other already. I'm not recommending that of course (and can get a 3-day suspension, depending) but I'm saying one never knows the personality and sensitivity level of the newbie if the newbie doesn't first tell us by providing the required info. It's the half-assed Intro attempts that open the door for the problems that develop. One member here shared with us how as a newbie he thought our quest for Intro was unbecoming of us (to pick a phrase) but came to appreciate why we must do it but only after being here a while. I suspect other newbies also think we are crazy to ask what we ask, and then we compound the perception by using attack language in his Intro. Then the newbie hides behind the fact he was attacked or then I step in as Mod and try to stop the attack which can help confuse getting to the desired result. I've seen me do that and I may have done it with this new member. Of course, don't anyone let me take all the blame just because I seem quick to take any of it. LOL. Let's hear from others, we are a community after all.

    It's hard to suss out everyone as to their skill level. Some people walk in the door here fully equipped and ready to go, others less so. I don't want this membership to be a clique, I mean who does, so I figure a group of people can have its stars and its quiet types and everything between. In fact, all one has to do is make the great Intro and really you never have to post again. We communicate by typing so it's not like a newbie hasn't already typed a zillion words before coming here. I want to be inclusive of wide-ranging personality types but everyone online knows how to operate a computer and a keyboard so to end up looking meek and mousy and short for words when you are registering on a MGTOW website of all places just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Comments welcome.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

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  11. #71
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    You're exactly right Alik. The fact of the matter is, average guys are not competing with the top 20%. They are competing with the top ONE percent. Maybe less than one percent. That's something a lot of people can't wrap their head around, but I've proven it many times. For example, how many guys are taller than six feet and make a six figure income? Well, both figures put you in the 95th percentile, so the equation looks like this:

    0.05 x 0.05 = 0.0025 or 0.25% of guys who meet JUST THOSE TWO CRITERIA.

    How many women want a guy who, at minimum, has a six figure income and is at least six feet tall? You see what I'm getting at? It is an infinitesimally small percentage of guys who meet all the criteria on their ridiculous bullet point lists. I could easily throw in a few extra criteria and make it a tiny percentage of 0.25%, but you get the idea.

    My point is that these are the guys most women are chasing. And even though this is a very, VERY small percentage of the male population, these women DON'T REALIZE IT. Try explaining this math sometime to a chunky 6/10 after she tells you everything she expects in a man, her reaction will be priceless. But since they don't realize how few of these men exist, they will never stop chasing them, and believing they can get one. And they believe it, because they are able to find guys like that to have sex with, but they do not understand that while these guys will have sex with them, they would NEVER commit to them. But women simply cannot figure this shit out, it's too fucking simple and logical.

    The bottom line is, if you're an average guy, you really don't stand a chance of attracting the top tier women here. You really don't stand a chance with a 9/10, most 8/10's, or even most 7/10's. But I wasn't trying to completely crush that guy's spirit or anything. But you are absolutely right, you're literally competing with fucking NHL players, billionaires, and every other random guy she could possibly be attracted to for whatever reason.
    Do you even see a 7 during the day ... If 10 is a stage ready bikini fitness girl ... Then a seven is still a stunner . The girls you see through the day are cow`s pancakes .

    They understand more than they say but for them its - find the best or die trying . And its understandable . Thats how every living creature that has choice lives on this planet at least .

    Though for humans its way more simple - if you are not a millionaire you are better off not procreating unless you want to see you children working TESCOS and have a good laugh . They will have zero chances.

    Even sports the last bastion for a poor kid is now totally occupied by rich kids . Even gang banging ...

    God gave us the best of two worlds - access to our favorite womens` pictures and videos without having to deal with the bullshit . And we are still not happy .

    God gave us Thailand and its still not good enough .

    Thats human nature for you .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  12. #72
    Senior Member Zoidberg's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    0.05 x 0.05 = 0.0025 or 0.25% of guys who meet JUST THOSE TWO CRITERIA.
    To visualize 25 out of 10000:

    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #73
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxicollector View Post
    I went to to get a pizza yesterday and this story has happened countless times.I see an attractive girl.I can't keep my eyes off her.Her body is great.Her face is great.I undress her with my eyes.She works there I forgot to mention.I think of ways I can get her to notice me.I can't stop looking at her of thinking about her.They call my name.My pizza is ready.I leave without her taking notice of me.I go home depressed once again.Again I am alone.
    I gotta get this shirt!


    Elvis has some advice for you! Don't be fooled!


  14. #74
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    I'm a 9 without makeup...I only date women that can say the same....
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  15. #75

    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
    To visualize 25 out of 10000:

    Another way of looking at it: If you filled a room full of 800 people, half male half female, exactly ONE man would be six feet tall and have a six figure income. That STILL doesn't mean he would meet their other criteria, such as being good looking, physically fit or muscular, having a large penis, sharing their political ideology, etc. I could run those numbers if you guys are interested to give you an idea.

    I mean, it goes well beyond unrealistic demands. They are straight up delusional, and insane. They will either settle down with someone and resent him for not meeting all those criteria, or they will end up alone, which is what they deserve.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    Another way of looking at it: If you filled a room full of 800 people, half male half female, exactly ONE man would be six feet tall and have a six figure income. That STILL doesn't mean he would meet their other criteria, such as being good looking, physically fit or muscular, having a large penis, sharing their political ideology, etc. I could run those numbers if you guys are interested to give you an idea.

    I mean, it goes well beyond unrealistic demands. They are straight up delusional, and insane. They will either settle down with someone and resent him for not meeting all those criteria, or they will end up alone, which is what they deserve.
    And even if you are fit and muscular , and have a large penis ...you still have to last long enough to give her multiple orgasms ... Good luck with that ...especially if you are fit and muscular .

    And even if you are all of those things the relationship dynamics will be exactly the same . She will give you shits out of the blue .

    The only difference is that she wont be able to accuse you of having a small dick when her friends are around .

    I have been through that more than once and it gave me more grief than happiness . With the exception that i didnt want to kill myself .

    If they had a small dick card against me it would have destroyed me for sure .


    But the relationship dynamics were no different regardless of your income or your meat .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  17. #77
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Sakharov View Post
    And even if you are fit and muscular , and have a large penis ...you still have to last long enough to give her multiple orgasms ... Good luck with that ...especially if you are fit and muscular .

    And even if you are all of those things the relationship dynamics will be exactly the same . She will give you shits out of the blue .

    The only difference is that she wont be able to accuse you of having a small dick when her friends are around .

    I have been through that more than once and it gave me more grief than happiness . With the exception that i didnt want to kill myself .

    If they had a small dick card against me it would have destroyed me for sure .


    But the relationship dynamics were no different regardless of your income or your meat .
    I have recently red some comments under some fitness video that MGTOW would not be able to have a gf even if they were free and plentiful as rain water .

    Not that i really care too much about women or MGTOW but i just know one thing ...

    I was a president of my high school , a star stand up comedian , elite soccer player , ran a gambling gang at school and later was a full time street gambler up until i was 30 yo .

    LOL im good looking as much as eastern European can be , have a big dick and a stamina of a horse ...

    And all the long time relationships i ever had, though not many ...the relationship dynamics were exactly the same as anyone`s else ...

    It doesnt matter at all who you are , you cant beat the laws of physics .

    You can hang out with the girls if they hang out with you , yes . But you can never expect her to be your gf .

    And if girls hang out with you , why would you even want just one girlfriend ?
    Last edited by Alik Sakharov; March 16, 2019 at 9:26 AM.
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  18. #78
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Wow, this thread has elicited a whirlwind of thoughts.

    First, the incel vs MGTOW thing. I think MGTOW is a potential cure for incel. That potential cure of course depends on the individual. That leads to incels grabbing the MGTOW name before they have successfully embraced the entire philosophy. This in turn leads to the world at large being confused about the difference. How does the MGTOW community welcome the incel without letting them stink up the place with their overly negative garbage? Is their a "quarantine" option with these types of forums so that a quarantined members threads could be made non public until they sort themselves out? I guess I just wish their was a middle ground between accepted member and the ban hammer.

    Xanthine is obviously spot on. I wonder if his premise is based on the six sixes. I'd be surprised if this hasn't been discussed somewhere on the board before, but if not you should check it out. Women's standards have gone completely off the rails.

    A KENYAN LAD: The Six Sixes-HOW WOMEN JUDGE AND CHOOSE MEN THESE DAYS
    Try not to throw up reading it.

    Separately, one of the points Jordan Peterson puts out that I tend to agree with is when he says you can't be considered a good person unless you have the ability to be bad. He says if you don't have the ability to be bad, then you are just a weak person masquerading as a good person. I disagree with him in that internally you may actually be a good person regardless, but I think his point is more about how the external world judges you. That is where I agree with him. I extrapolate this concept to the incel vs MGTOW paradigm. If you are or where incel and you embrace MGTOW, at what point are you no longer incel? Do you need to be able to "pull women" before you can say you are no longer incel?

    I propose that MGTOW done properly simply allows a man to transcend these paradigms. In that sense, I think MGTOW actually qualifies as a spiritual practice akin to Buddhism because no belief in a god or gods is necessary. The philosophy simply allows you to transcend the judgements of the world. At that point, you no longer care how the world labels you. You no longer care if the counter THOT notices you.

    The OP has a point though. Transcending the physical cravings have been the most difficult part for me personally. I no longer care in the least what "they" think of me, but when a see a good looking woman, my body still responds. If I could finally vanquish that demon... Well, I think that would be a happy day indeed.

  19. #79
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    Wow, this thread has elicited a whirlwind of thoughts.

    First, the incel vs MGTOW thing. I think MGTOW is a potential cure for incel. That potential cure of course depends on the individual. That leads to incels grabbing the MGTOW name before they have successfully embraced the entire philosophy. This in turn leads to the world at large being confused about the difference. How does the MGTOW community welcome the incel without letting them stink up the place with their overly negative garbage? Is their a "quarantine" option with these types of forums so that a quarantined members threads could be made non public until they sort themselves out? I guess I just wish their was a middle ground between accepted member and the ban hammer.

    Xanthine is obviously spot on. I wonder if his premise is based on the six sixes. I'd be surprised if this hasn't been discussed somewhere on the board before, but if not you should check it out. Women's standards have gone completely off the rails.

    A KENYAN LAD: The Six Sixes-HOW WOMEN JUDGE AND CHOOSE MEN THESE DAYS
    Try not to throw up reading it.

    Separately, one of the points Jordan Peterson puts out that I tend to agree with is when he says you can't be considered a good person unless you have the ability to be bad. He says if you don't have the ability to be bad, then you are just a weak person masquerading as a good person. I disagree with him in that internally you may actually be a good person regardless, but I think his point is more about how the external world judges you. That is where I agree with him. I extrapolate this concept to the incel vs MGTOW paradigm. If you are or where incel and you embrace MGTOW, at what point are you no longer incel? Do you need to be able to "pull women" before you can say you are no longer incel?

    I propose that MGTOW done properly simply allows a man to transcend these paradigms. In that sense, I think MGTOW actually qualifies as a spiritual practice akin to Buddhism because no belief in a god or gods is necessary. The philosophy simply allows you to transcend the judgements of the world. At that point, you no longer care how the world labels you. You no longer care if the counter THOT notices you.

    The OP has a point though. Transcending the physical cravings have been the most difficult part for me personally. I no longer care in the least what "they" think of me, but when a see a good looking woman, my body still responds. If I could finally vanquish that demon... Well, I think that would be a happy day indeed.
    This world is a lot like Mike Tyson in his prime , the most feared man in the world .... that still had to answer 100% to joke of man Don King ...

    Not everything is gold that shines .

    Its a layer upon layer of feel good deception and straight lies .

    You live and learn in the best case scenario . Or you just live .

    Not that its too much difference .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  20. #80
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    Re: Girl at the pizza place.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post

    The OP has a point though. Transcending the physical cravings have been the most difficult part for me personally. I no longer care in the least what "they" think of me, but when a see a good looking woman, my body still responds. If I could finally vanquish that demon... Well, I think that would be a happy day indeed.
    I have a different view. I don't believe in transcending the physical cravings or the attraction. I enjoy them akin to a person window shopping but never buying. Although rare, I still occasionally flirt or appreciate what I see. However, I have also developed complete self control so cravings are of no concern. Much like the ego, the demon is not to be vanquished, but simply ''dissolved''.

    Ive had more problems (one of the reasons why I rarely flirt) from women unable to control themselves after noticing me looking at them.

    Concerning the incel (a term that doesn't even make any logical sense) Vs Mgtow. The only difference is from the 'value' one places on the trap of female validation. Most men are brainwashed into thinking female validation is a measure of value, but it isn't. I had a person on youtube say I' was a better man than another because I used to approach women. But after I detailed the individual personalities I always met (shallow, boring, self centered, promiscuous) I asked him how that made me the better man, than the guy that had never approached them. He had no answer....

    The only reason why incels are angry is because they have bought into the trap of female validation. All external validation is false, although needed to some extent to navigate throughout life.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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