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  1. #21

    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    No good deeds are ever going unpunished. Most men are simply not capable to say "No" The easiest word in the world but must men are just unable. It has definitely to do with something in your wiring as pbisque pointed out. add to that a lifetime of brainwashing and indoctrination and there you go.
    "MGTOW is an extreme measure to an extreme situation"
    Quote Insidious Sid: "Some men are so MGTOW they're not even MGTOW".
    Quote Life is what you make of it "Marriage is the only war where you sleep with the enemy."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Born MGTOW View Post
    No good deeds are ever going unpunished. Most men are simply not capable to say "No" The easiest word in the world but must men are just unable. It has definitely to do with something in your wiring as pbisque pointed out. add to that a lifetime of brainwashing and indoctrination and there you go.
    Naturally , vast , vast majority of males do not feel as top dogs thus do not feel they can make it on their own .

    So they try to bond with other males and even females . Try to make friends .

    And one " no " ruins a friendship .

    And who tells you for the first time that you aint no top dog ... parents .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  3. #23
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Sakharov View Post
    Naturally , vast , vast majority of males do not feel as top dogs thus do not feel they can make it on their own .

    So they try to bond with other males and even females . Try to make friends .

    And one " no " ruins a friendship .

    And who tells you for the first time that you aint no top dog ... parents .
    If the word no ruins a friendship then it's not a friendship! You're dealing with a narcissistic motherfucker!
    Narcissistic personalities have no respect for boundaries. To a narcissist the word "no" means we gotta work on that by shoe horn it in whatever means necessary into the word yes!

  4. #24
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    If the word no ruins a friendship then it's not a friendship! You're dealing with a narcissistic motherfucker!
    Narcissistic personalities have no respect for boundaries. To a narcissist the word "no" means we gotta work on that by shoe horn it in whatever means necessary into the word yes!
    Of course its not a friendship .

    In human world there are useful people or people you are scared of . Not imaginary friends .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  5. #25
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by BilBoRing View Post
    Every boy is born an alpha. Conditioning plays a big part.

    I am overall a nice guy who doesn't feel the need to 'fuck being nice' approach. The problem lies in one's inability to set boundaries.

    There is one simple cure to being nice. The word 'No'. Followed by silence. You can maintain the persona of being kind and caring but refusing to provide unappreciated help and especially without an explanation why the refusal is made. A side effect is it earns you respect.
    From my experience, another dangerous side effect is female obsession and tingles. Other guys have said the same too.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  6. #26

    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alik Sakharov View Post
    I thought about it and realized that we have been conditioned to do just that . Its not natural .

    When peasants became so plentiful and no army was big enough to control them they realized that now if you fuck a woman once you are liable to support her and her children . Passed it as a noble thing lol .

    And passed it as you wanted it and begged for her hand . This would only happen if some lowly knight wanted to fuck a princess . ( and then fuck off of course )

    While most peasants would just never even touch a woman or just go to the brothel once a year, before Christmas usually .

    These fucks in castles have all the time in the world to crease their little scams .
    Dead right. Monogamy was enforced by the Church as a means of control, because back in the dark ages, women flocked to the rich guys (harem system) and there were so many single, pissed men on the loose that it was becoming a severe problem. They had nothing to lose, and many spoils to gain, by becoming highwaymen or raiders. So monogamy happened, every guy got a family, and society was stabilized for near a thousand years... Now that is ending, and I wonder what is going to be done about it...

    I'm damn sure the governments of the world have a covert plan... Cause we're livestock to them.
    And it's nothing but wide open prairie...

    There's something very fun about MGTOW. In an odd sense, like charting a new territory of the mind, or rediscovering a long lost civilization. Occult knowledge, secret societies, cannibal natives (THOTS), it's all very exciting... lololol.

    Abandon the Abandoners. Go Your Own Way, on a molecular scale. <3

  7. #27
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by devilcomeknockin View Post
    Dead right. Monogamy was enforced by the Church as a means of control, because back in the dark ages, women flocked to the rich guys (harem system) and there were so many single, pissed men on the loose that it was becoming a severe problem. They had nothing to lose, and many spoils to gain, by becoming highwaymen or raiders. So monogamy happened, every guy got a family, and society was stabilized for near a thousand years... Now that is ending, and I wonder what is going to be done about it...

    I'm damn sure the governments of the world have a covert plan... Cause we're livestock to them.
    Yep !

    The weapons of an army back then were not much better than sticks and stones peasants had . Many times peasants would just beat the local duke`s army and raid the castle . That shit was worth risking your life because the life wasnt worth living without it .

    The riches were scared for their lives so they had to come up with a plan do or die .

    The time has come again .

    I call for all the MGTOW unite and fight ( )
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  8. #28
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by devilcomeknockin View Post
    Dead right. Monogamy was enforced by the Church as a means of control, because back in the dark ages, women flocked to the rich guys (harem system) and there were so many single, pissed men on the loose that it was becoming a severe problem. They had nothing to lose, and many spoils to gain, by becoming highwaymen or raiders. So monogamy happened, every guy got a family, and society was stabilized for near a thousand years... Now that is ending, and I wonder what is going to be done about it...

    I'm damn sure the governments of the world have a covert plan... Cause we're livestock to them.
    You got it all wrong! The rich men wanted to pawn off all the women that were driving them nuts!

    And now that women's liberation has induced hypergamy all over again women are flocking to rich men driving them both nuts and broke! What should be done about it? NOTHING! I like this arrangement! Let them have all the women they can endure! Less is truly MORE!

  9. #29

    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    I find myself nearly alone on this, but bare with me. I think natural nice guys actually do exist. I was one of them and I have seen the same trait in my son from a very early age. It is an extreme and unhealthy desire to do things for others. I think most would agree that men have had this bred into them over the centuries, especially toward women. I'm talking of a more extreme form of this actually extends to everyone. It's beyond the Glover version of "Nice Guy". I'm not talking about some covert contract where you are only doing things for others so that they will be nice back. It is more innate than that. It's in the wiring.
    I remember one time sitting in a coffee shop when a terribly disorganized family with a kid came in. They were having car problems and where looking for help. I immediately jumped up to see what I could do. The car was in very bad shape. I probably helped them for a few hours. If I remember correctly, it was an issue with their battery. I knew I would never see them again. I wasn't doing this for some eventual repayment. I just had this genuine desire to be helpful.
    The "husband", if they were even married, was obviously grateful for the help. The wife and daughter just looked like they were irritated it was taking so long. It was the last time I ever went out of my way to help anyone. There was nothing special about this event, but it seemed to have been the straw that finally broke the camels back. I reflected on it that night. I was literally the only person in the entire coffee shop that gave these distressed bastards a moments thought and I had to wonder why.

    I think genuinely nice guys can be potential powder kegs. I'm not sure I'm explaining this well. It's a bit of a chicken or the egg thing I guess. A genuinely nice guy is a sucker. I'm working like hell to excise this demon from my son so it doesn't cause him the harm it caused me. The difference between this person and someone like Glovers nice guy, is that this is borne out of genuine altruism. Like everyone, this genuine nice guy projects this value onto everyone and assumes it to be universal. That is where the danger is, because at some point that illusion is broken. I suspect it might be where things like school shootings come from.

    It's a form of taking a red pill. When you finally figure out that most people couldn't give two shits about your well being, you feel duped. When you realize how much time you wasted helping others, you get pissed. I think if it is bad enough, and SSRI's are involved, bad things can happen.
    The best illustration I've seen of this is a movie called "Falling Down" staring Michael Douglas. It was made in 1993. There was a seen in that movie where he tries to buy a hamburger at some fast food place and he starts to loose it because he just wants the burger to look like the one in the picture instead of the flattened out smashed thing he is given.
    Glovers covert contracts are a conscious act. "Maybe if I help Suzy move again, she will finally show me her boobies".
    What I am talking about isn't covert. It's the shit we have been taught since birth. Good people help others. This makes all the sense in the world when it is an innate character trait. Guys like this are probably the ultimate Christians and or Boy Scouts. When the illusion falls apart though, you could care less if the world burns.

    Why then am I writing this here? Because I think genuine nice guys might be over represented in the MGTOW crowd. It's beyond the man vs woman thing though. If this describes you, then you need to consciously stop it. You are giving all your energy away to a world that isn't even capable of noticing. Don't go nuts like the guy in the movie did, or shoot up a school. Just stop giving your energy away. It's that simple. You can still be nice when the mood strikes you, but make it a conscious process, not the gut reaction to drop everything for someone else. Don't miss a job interview to help someone change a tire.
    What is sad is that the world would be a much better place if everyone were genuinely nice like this. The problem is, it just isn't the way it is. Help others if you feel compelled, but only when you actually have the spare resources for it.
    I agree completely. I was a genuine Nice Guy(tm). I think an awful lot of guys are... When I mentioned to one of my most open-minded friends that I had basically taken the Redpill (which was a very informative test) at first she couldn't believe it. Then I explained why I was feeling that way, and she said "OMG No! Not NiceGuy defense!) I called her on it immediately, said that I studied Redbook and Cosmo, followed them to the letter, and got mangled every step of the way. I also brought up how she once told me that she cheated on her boyfriend because he was too nice to her (with Chad, ofcourse) but now her hamstering provided all kinds of details about how they weren't exclusive anyways, and blah blah blah...

    She said she had investigated the Redpill as well, and later concluded that she didn't believe me to be the Toxic NiceGuy (which I believe you call the Glover model) and she knew I was open-minded, but if I started using terms like Chad and Stacy she was going to have to beat the Toxic Masculinity out of me. I refrained from asking "But are You open-minded, my dear?"

    Everything else you wrote syncs up quite well with my experiences. People-pleasing is born into some folks, and drilled hard into the heads of the more sensitive male populace, generally as a way of counter-acting Toxic Masculinity (a term that wasn't around back in the 80's, but was surely being coined)... The Church is very much a part of this system of indoctrination as well. Those feelings of being "duped" and "pissed" were VERY present in me when I was overdosing on Redpills. It is such a staggering betrayal, on such a deep part of you, that the world itself has conspired to diminish you at every turn, and punish you for being diminished. It's so much bigger than just women...

    I went and saw a ladyfriend in another state this week who's 15-year man kicked her out a while back, in reaction to nagging... I don't blame him, and I don't blame her. Shit just goes sideways, couples continue out of sheer inertia, and sooner or later it breaks. His Mom is overbearing as well, and he has all the symptoms of Geniune NiceGuy syndrome. Also I deduced that one of his 'good old friends' is covertly planning on leaving her husband and monkey-branching to him (while she chases a new Chad-bux lol), so there's plenty of gaslighting all over the place. His ass is grass, and it ain't my job to save him.

    TBH, most of "their" friends were really just his, wealthy, entitled bitches that "deigned" to associate with her for his sake. So she's lost a lot of false friends, and is hurting over that really bad too; and I wanted to assure her that the world hasn't ended. One thing we've noticed is that the moment she put "Single" on her FB status, dudes are coming out of the fucking woodwork. White Knights are constantly scanning for free women to "rescue" (exploit), it's fucking crazy.

    And yes, I did indeed fuck her up and down the wall the whole time. We've been really close for five years, she was one of the quasi-platonic polyamorous relationships I was in, and I wanted to make damned sure that she doesn't just shack up with the first guy who gives her the time of day, and end up on the post-wall CC. So I basically Alpha-Widowed her to keep her safe for a bit. It wasn't NiceGuy game, it was honest affection, and she helped me deal with some major issues of my own. Practically nursed me back to health following what the gold-diggers did. I felt I could at least do the same.

    It was a very good time. Got to hang out with another ex too, and they were laughing and high-fiving about how their friendship has reached the "Nailed the same guy stage." Lol, they're awesome.

    It's just kinda strange.. Most certainly, EWALT... but some girls (again, generally mice) are as mesmerized by the Blue-pill paradigm as men are... They just don't see clearly.
    Last edited by devilcomeknockin; May 11, 2019 at 10:28 PM.
    And it's nothing but wide open prairie...

    There's something very fun about MGTOW. In an odd sense, like charting a new territory of the mind, or rediscovering a long lost civilization. Occult knowledge, secret societies, cannibal natives (THOTS), it's all very exciting... lololol.

    Abandon the Abandoners. Go Your Own Way, on a molecular scale. <3

  10. #30
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    The other problem I have with the Glover model is that it refers to married couples. You simply can't get a more overt contract than a wedding. Both people stand before God and everyone dear to them. They take the most public of vows. Then when the man expects his new wife to hold up her end of the vows, we get to hear about covert contracts. It's BS. I'm not going to pretend that women don't know men marry them for sexual access. Glovers model assumes women are ignorant of this. As far as I'm concerned, the whole concept is just playing to the feminine imperative.

  11. #31
    Senior Member ChauvinistPig's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    I'm very nice to any who earns the privilege. I used to give it away for free thinking that others would do the same or at least appreciate it. DO NOT DO THIS, EVER!!!!!!!!

    Predators perceive being nice as a weakness not a virtue.

    Anyone who ever tries to take advantage of my niceness quickly learns how I can flip into a ruthless SOB.
    Microsoft SUCKS! http://www.microsoftsucks.org/ They suck more than they've ever sucked before.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Gamma Males (nice guys)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    The other problem I have with the Glover model is that it refers to married couples. You simply can't get a more overt contract than a wedding. Both people stand before God and everyone dear to them. They take the most public of vows. Then when the man expects his new wife to hold up her end of the vows, we get to hear about covert contracts. It's BS. I'm not going to pretend that women don't know men marry them for sexual access. Glovers model assumes women are ignorant of this. As far as I'm concerned, the whole concept is just playing to the feminine imperative.
    lol she probably is well aware of this by the time she is 10 .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !


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