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  1. #1
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    One of the effects of all the thirst in the 80% male demographic (guys not considered in the top 20% in men as far as physical status/attractiveness) as a result of increased female hypergamy is that otherwise decent guys, who have been largely sidelined by the "modern empowered woman", devolve into a salivating perv in the company of women. It is sad and I understand the "why" of it but it's impossible for me to respect them afterwards.

    Let me start with a basic notion- don't be a desperate, salivating perv. Don't get a 'different' overly-excited personality when a woman shows up. Don't ignore everyone around you and have tunnel-perv-vision towards this woman. Don't let your eyes bug out while talking to her. Put your tongue back in your mouth. That should be obvious but thought I'd clarify if unclear.

    I was at an activist event; I have a female friend I volunteer with. The event was organized by my friend. He is definitely in the bottom 80%. I walk up to my friend to thank him for the evening. He ignores me entirely because he is gawking at my female friend like a poor shipwrecked fellow who saw sign of possible rescue. It was truly pathetic. I felt embarrassed for the person I was with. He made a few minutes of awkward cringe-worthy forced conversation before she awkwardly excused herself. And as much as we fault women here, I don't blame her at all.

    My non-MGTOW friend is, otherwise, a decent guy. A professional by day, and activist by evening. But he's laughably blue pill. He "dated" a woman for two years who never slept with him, and he took out for expensive dinners a few times a week. He would show me pictures and say "isn't she hot". And I would tell him, yeah, she's making some other guy besides you really happy.

    I understand where this male thirst is coming from. But there are a lot of men through unawaress of social dynamics, have let their biological impulses rule to the point they put "hoes way ahead of bros", who lower themselves and go into heat on merely interacting with a female.

    This is just one example of many I have. Seemingly every guy I know is in this mode. It's both laughable and sad. Pro-tip: even if you want to chase, women don't like the smell of desperation. Have you heard the expression "be cool"? The desperation plays to a woman's ego; soon she is playing the men against each other, and the blue-pill perv is jumping through hoops and doing every trick known to dog and man while she laughs (at him) as the desperados jockey with each other.

    To be a respectable man in today's environment, you need to either:

    1) Be in the top 20% (not alterable really; 20% is just a heuristic, not an exact figure; actually science shows this is more like top 6%)
    2) Reduce the importance of women in your mind (combat the cultural emphasis on sex)
    3) P4P, FWB etc.

    If you choose none of the above, you're going to make a fool of yourself.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
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  2. #2

    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    In many foreign countries, American guys are the prize. There is no need for American guys to be thirsty simps. You can be the Chad Thundercock if you can speak some Spanish or Russian and have time to travel and meet foreign women. In Mexico, you are competing with guys who earn $5 per day - you are a rock star by comparison. So long as you do not make the basic mistake of bringing Princess back to the land of divorce lawyers for her to divorcerape you, you can be a passport playa. Google overseas romance tours like the Loveme dot com tours if you want women lining up to meet you but do not bring them back to the USA. Remember, don't crap where you eat, work or live - keep the women you meet out of the feminasty states of America. If you are one of the thirsty guys Jagrmeister is talking about, try option 4: escape from the USA matriarchy and go to where you are the prize!
    Last edited by CPRA; May 27, 2019 at 3:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    This post is insightful and the advise about social dynamics is really worthwhile to understand. But if overnight, all men became 'socially aware' I don't think it would make much difference to the likelihood of him getting laid with the attractive girls he wants.

    Simply because, you are already in a power dynamic which benefits the woman, i.e, you have to initiate and she plays the waiting game. You have to make the sales pitch and she gets to say yes or no to your offer.

    If you are top 5%, then the dynamic will be different of course, and learning social dynamics will still be beneficial even if you are top 1% hype hyper alpha (no woman likes a socially awkward guy) but if you are below 80%, you can improve your chanced by learning social dynamic, but the improvement (however significant) is not going to be enough for a woman to say yes to sex.

    It's simple, women aren't interested in the bottom 95%; they never have and they never will be. Sometimes you may get lucky, I slept with a recently divorced woman who was much taller, much more attractive than I am, but I was only able to do that because of happenstance; she wanted to get revenge on her ex-husband and I was the tool she used to get it. I was happy about it; but not going to kid myself that I can do that on a regular basis.

    and Lo and behold, I have tried to contact this woman again and she doesn't even respond to a text - message.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    And this salivating doesnt come from overly high testosterone . Its just conditioning that you have to chase and "have" a woman by your side .

    And also conditioning that you are as good as the best , that you are very important to this world ...

    Most guys wouldnt know what to do with a women ...

    Also its a show off thing for both women and men - look who i scored . What others will think .

    The sheer lust for particular person is the smallest of reasons .


    PS. Americans are unbearable with this shit - asking out every female in their sight, even the ones they dont even like . They used to be at least . Worse than Italians
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  5. #5
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    I think thirst is all they have so they've learned to enjoy it in a pathetic way. I always hear blue pillers talking about waiting for summer so all the girls in mini skirts and yoga pants come out. They don't like it when I tell them to let me know when they've fucked one. Another aspect of this is being proud of being a time ho. All the tap-dancing simps patting each other on the back for hanging out with girls all the time without ever landing any one of them.

    Agreed with Alik on the trophy part: the moment you think a woman will increase your standing in any way you've put yourself below her and lost both her and whatever status you had before. I've got a simp coworker who got married at 24 years of age. He somehow manages to pull off bitch tits while weighing a skeletal 62 kg. When I told him he looked pathetic and should start working out, he said he didn't need to as he already had a woman. In the blue pill world, having a woman means you've made it and are a real man, no matter how sad the rest of your life is. He has no idea what's coming for him and he can't be helped.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Gargamel's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    I can write many more nasty things on simps and thirsty blue pillers.

    And how they stab you in the back just to get some female attention. Or make fun of you looking for their approval...


    One thing is certain: We all simped at one time in our lives or another - in the hopes of finally scoring our NAWALT soul mate...


    And we (here) grasped the futility of the endeavor...


    Sometimes the biggest (35 years ago) ex-simp who had the most well-meaning intentions towards women becomes the biggest MGTOW truth-bomb-poster with the highest count of using the word cunt ever to be. And meaning it.

    All coming from the "real life experience files"



    I never simped "pathologically" but was often economically exploited by cunts until I "timed out" and did damage control at a 3 digit sum of money. I had enough - mostly after 2 to 4 weeks and ghosted on them elegantly.

    Today, I cut them off at the start. Today I "see" every gas bill I would waste in driving her around like a free taxi.


    Let the average simp read our forums for a while and wait for "the coin to slide down the slot" in his brain...


    Some never learn, some others "need" a divorce court spanking to wake up. This is natural.
    #MANOUT - Uncunt the Mighty Vagina from your life and live as a free man

  7. #7
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    They don't like it when I tell them to let me know when they've fucked one.
    Excellent point; very well made. It reminds of a time when one annoying bastard who came to hang out with a group of friends I was with and he started shaming us for being 'losers'. Apparently women didn't care about height, money, status, good looks, etc.

    How did he demonstrate it?

    Right in front of us, he want up to a below average chick and flirted with her and he got her number. And apparently we are pussies because we don't do that.

    So I was congratulating him, and I said 'I'll take your word that your theory is true ONLY & IF you get her in the bed without spending crazy amount of money on the date'. He was pissed off and threw more insults my way.

    You cannot convince a blue piller. The red pill is poison to them. It's good that they get used and abused like the pieces of shit they are, because Blue Pillers provide excellent camouflage for MGTOW.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    If a chick they are trying to chat up told them - fuck me right here right now !!! They wouldnt even be able to have an erection ...

    Vast , vast majority of males like 99.9% ....
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  9. #9
    Senior Member ChauvinistPig's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    You should ask him what excuses she used when their dinner dates ended. Sick parakeet, headache, time of the month, stressful day tomorrow, etc...

    I'm sure her Chad had a key to her domicile. Her exact ETA was texted to him immediately after your friend got his goodnight peck on the cheek.

    Rinsing is a huge problem for honest men with good intentions. Pre-internet, if a woman were a rinser, then everyone in her social sphere would know it. Now, she can line up free dinners damn near every night of the week thanks to unlimited thirsty simps in her 50 mile radius.
    Microsoft SUCKS! http://www.microsoftsucks.org/ They suck more than they've ever sucked before.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    Your best chance as an 80%er is NOT GAME. It's chilly indifference and not putting her on a pedestal. Watching 80%ers bringing their game is painful, knowing she's just using the guy for attention. The most cringeworthy stuff out there now is the PUA "teachers" online showing videos of their game in action. See? This stuff works. This aloof cocky comedian act I play on unsuspecting women get me laid like tile... give me your credit card info and you too can slam women out of your league. With clever lines and a cocky attitude (read: feigned confidence).

    You know, I always like to point out the "confidence myth". Women like confident men. Those men are confident because they are tall, handsome and bring in good bank and get laid regularly. If you took away their tall, handsome and rich, they'd have the same confidence the 80%ers have. Next to none.

    There is nothing more tragic than an 80%er running game on a woman 2 SMV points above him believing the lie that him being (acting) confident is going to work. The biggest cringe is his last confident line "Okay, well it's been great talking to you. Catch you around sometimes." as she leaves with another guy. The other guy was confident he could rescue the woman from the awkward "confidence game" the 80%er was trying to run. I've seen it 100 times, and every time it's just as sad.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  11. #11

    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    What has changed in the USA vs most of the world is American women got the vote and married 'big daddy" government for free cheese. American men, as Roosh said, are now performing clowns aka PUAs for women since they aren't needed by women anymore - the government welfare EBT card and Section 8 has replaced American men. American men still pay for women, but through their taxes via the women's vote for more taxes and freebies. Solution is to go to other countries that do not give out freebies to women and meet women there. Just remember, if you bring them back to the toxic feminist environment of the USA, they will likely adjust or rot into a typical American feminasty and divorcerape you . . .
    Last edited by CPRA; May 27, 2019 at 7:15 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post
    Your best chance as an 80%er is NOT GAME. It's chilly indifference and not putting her on a pedestal. Watching 80%ers bringing their game is painful, knowing she's just using the guy for attention. The most cringeworthy stuff out there now is the PUA "teachers" online showing videos of their game in action. See? This stuff works. This aloof cocky comedian act I play on unsuspecting women get me laid like tile... give me your credit card info and you too can slam women out of your league. With clever lines and a cocky attitude (read: feigned confidence).

    You know, I always like to point out the "confidence myth". Women like confident men. Those men are confident because they are tall, handsome and bring in good bank and get laid regularly. If you took away their tall, handsome and rich, they'd have the same confidence the 80%ers have. Next to none.

    There is nothing more tragic than an 80%er running game on a woman 2 SMV points above him believing the lie that him being (acting) confident is going to work. The biggest cringe is his last confident line "Okay, well it's been great talking to you. Catch you around sometimes." as she leaves with another guy. The other guy was confident he could rescue the woman from the awkward "confidence game" the 80%er was trying to run. I've seen it 100 times, and every time it's just as sad.
    LOL all rehearsed set up for a youtube video ... Even in remote village in south west Indian Bangladesh if you tired this approach you would get " get off of me you weirdo !!! " .

    This pick upper bullshit never worked .

    But there are very good looking and well off guys that are still awkward with women and look cringe worthy . Not every good looking guy does well with women .

    It a little more complex . Timing matters a lot too .

    If you are naturally self confident you dont have to be that good looking or that wealthy . But then you dont really care .

    Its social fabric where every little thread matters as much as it doesnt .

    It doesnt matter how good you are with women - it ends the same all of the time .
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  13. #13

    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    Of the women I've known that have wanted to have sex with me, none of them required me to compete or perform. I didn't have to buy them dinners or gifts, or all that other crap. Once a woman decided she wanted sex with me, it was easy and it was inexpensive. I think this is true for all women. When she wants sex with a particular man, she doesn't require him to provide her with anything else, because the sex is what she wants him to provide. She's getting what she wants, so nothing else is necessary.

    But I do think it's also possible to 'earn' sex with expensive dinners and gifts, or game, or whatever other performances out there might be working some of the time, for some of the guys, on some of the women... Some men get some sex from some women sometimes this way.

    And, I have also been one of those guys who got sex that I somehow 'earned' this way. But I didn't get respect with it. I didn't get respect from her, and I didn't respect myself, either. Because ultimately, we both knew that whatever I paid, (or whatever I did to earn it), to get the sex was way more than the sex was actually worth. In this way, I think it's very similar to other transactions. You can go be a sucker at a used car lot and pay too much for a crappy used car. And you will certainly get the car. But you will not get the respect of the salesman after letting him rip you off this way.

    So in my view, once you have decided within yourself that you are willing to 'earn' it from a woman like some dancing street clown hoping someone will toss him a bit of pocket change for his freely provided effort, you will not get respect from that woman regardless of wether you end up getting sex from her. And if a woman does not respect you, you will not be getting that sex for long. Women do not remain for long with a man they don't respect, regardless of wether they are having sex with him. Performing or otherwise trying to 'earn' it defeats the possibility of a long term relationship before it ever starts, and seriously reduces the prospects for the near term as well.

    Each man has to decide for himself the relative value of sex with women vs respect from women, along with his own self respect...

  14. #14
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    Agreed. Timing is everything because even the interest level of a single woman changes by the minute based on a hundred different variables. Even if she's generally attracted to you, she'll be clinging onto you in the morning and indifferent by the evening. Blue pillers overthink this, start doubting themselves and try to catch up with all the moods, tap-dancing away. The trick is that she has to invest first, then you reward her, never the other way around. I'm pretty introverted so I won't waste any energy on a woman until I feel like I owe it to her because she's been so nice to me. Her worth is largely determined by how well she treats me. Any disrespect and I merrily walk away.

    Alik is correct that the world is full of rich, good looking, ripped guys who don't get this and keep spinning their wheels. Women can smell the tiniest hint of desperation and neediness, they will know if you're only working out, making money or grooming to get them and will find it repulsive. Nothing attracts them like sincerely not giving a fuck.
    Last edited by I'm Gone; May 27, 2019 at 8:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Alik Sakharov's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Gone View Post
    Agreed. Timing is everything because even the interest level of a single woman changes by the minute based on a hundred different variables. Even if she's generally attracted to you, she'll be clinging onto you in the morning and indifferent by the evening. Blue pillers overthink this, start doubting themselves and try to catch up with all the moods, tap-dancing away. The trick is that she has to invest first, then you reward her, never the other way around. I'm pretty introverted so I won't waste any energy on a woman until I feel like I owe it to her because she's been so nice to me. Her worth is largely determined by how well she treats me. Any disrespect and I merrily walk away.

    Alik is correct that the world is full of rich, good looking, ripped guys who don't get this and keep spinning their wheels. Women can smell the tiniest hint of desperation and neediness, they will know if you're only working out, making money or grooming to get them and will find it repulsive. Nothing attracts them like sincerely not giving a fuck.
    Good looking and ripped is actually a gay thing more than anything else .

    Fear of confrontation in your eyes and its so not sexy for women . If you have it in your eyes both males and females see it .

    They see when someone is a coward , you see it , I see it ...

    Its a big , big thing cause everything is about status and having just a little bit more money means shit .

    Mommies take a good care to raise their sons to be cowards ...
    You cant keep a player down!
    Dont hate him , hate your fuking bullshit game !

  16. #16
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    I definitely agree with the notion since I'm in that mindset now but I'd feel like a hypocrite if I were to lay judgment on your hormonally driven male friend because I was once that person too in my teens to early and mid 20's. Seeing that I'm an early millennial, 3rd wave feminism and empowerment of females as a whole took full force when I was just getting into adulthood which made it hard for me to vibe with women or at the very least, hard for women to see me as a romantic partner. I stopped giving a damn about it when I hit 30. That year was 2016 and that was a whole age of enlightenment for me, I've learned too many things that would ever want me to revert to my blue pill mentality.

    It's come to the point that I don't really address women as females, I would address them casually like I would talking to any human. I'm not gonna force any conversation with a woman if any connection isn't felt. Even though I see people in a general perspective, not many others feel the same. The truth is definitely so for younger females who still place men and other women in ranking systems in who they feel like bonding with or not and quite frankly, I've no patience to play that game...anymore. I'm too old for that shit so if she ain't gonna keep it real with me, she's automatically irrelevant.

    So out of the 3 choices to be the respectable male, I definitely vibe with 2. I reduce the importance of women with video games, exercise, moments of solitude just relaxing and listening to music as well as my many ventures outside of my state during the Summer...and food, DEFINITELY FOOD. New York City has a myriad of restaurants in the 5 boroughs (Well 4 I occasionally frequent) and I like going to random food joints out of curiosity. 64% of the pages I follow in instagram are food related. As for the others, there's no way I'll be a part of the 20% nor do I desire to be. 3 sounds reasonable but I've evolved from the need for that, I want my time to be as productive and constructive as possible.

  17. #17

    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    I was definitely the desperate perv when I was younger. And an honest perv, as in a weirdo, with standards and requirements that placed the majority of women in my 80%. Lots and lots of folks thought I was gay just because I wasn't chasing landwhales and cretins. And I was without question desperately lonely and horny, but I always had a belief that "you are what you eat" applies to sex just as much as food. So I ate sparingly, yet ravenously... I wish the Redpill stuff had been widely available back then as it is now. *shrug*

    Then again, I probably would have gotten myself into very deep trouble, with kids, multiple divorces, all the regular. I suppose a life of privation has ended up with me me in a good place. Yet I noticed something. When it comes to the attractiveness of indifference, there are two kinds. Clueless Indifference (which I had in spades, and women scent and despise it just like cowardice) and knowing indifference, which drives them wild. One is a clear sign of aimlessness, the other a sign of purpose. And women damned well know the difference.
    And it's nothing but wide open prairie...

    There's something very fun about MGTOW. In an odd sense, like charting a new territory of the mind, or rediscovering a long lost civilization. Occult knowledge, secret societies, cannibal natives (THOTS), it's all very exciting... lololol.

    Abandon the Abandoners.

  18. #18

    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    WOW! Talk about PTSD flashbacks to my late 20's.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Joetech's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    This post reminds me of a video I tripped over recently. It's a funny music video, but it illustrates your point, Jager. Go to youtube and check out "Jizz in my pants", then there's the female version called "Puke in my mouth". It's funny, but also very telling.
    "Don't follow in my footsteps. I stepped in something."

  20. #20
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Let's Face It: The Average 80%'er Non-MGTOW male is a Desperate Perv

    I used to go without rather than reduce or adjust my standards for market conditions. To me, overweight and obese people are sexual nonpersons. I don't want to see them at all, let alone naked. The thought of their fat cold sweaty hands on me makes me want to vomit. At times when I was overweight myself, I didn't even want sex. I expect myself and my partner to be in shape, even if it's a one night stand. I can't perform with a female I am not attracted to, and perhaps that's just my biology doing exactly what it should: making sure my thirst doesn't result in lower-quality genetic pairings. I think diet is a SECONDARY problem in obesity. I think the primary problem is all the men making babies with fat women, who will inevitably have fat children due to the double-killer of fat genes mixed with fat diet and lifestyle. Sorry, but I'm not seeing healthy-weight children with the land-whales at Walmart. And they often dress their kids like retards too - the poor children have no chance at having any self-esteem. No money for some better clothes, but a shopping cart full to the top with $400 worth of frozen instant foods and processed foods. A big thing in feminism now (socialism) is that poor people do not have access to "affordable food". lolololol. Right, because everybody knows fast food and frozen foods are SO MUCH CHEAPER than raw ingredients. What they don't have access to is self control and the discipline to take the time to prepare a home cooked meal. Fucking snowflakes and their victim game. It drives my fucking nuts.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...


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