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  1. #1
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Just scratched the surface here...

    Hey all. So, I was going to write a short intro since it's late, but I saw the detail others poured out, and I decided to reciprocate.

    I'm pretty new to the concept of MGTOW, and I'm still trying to figure out whether I want a limited relationship with a woman (FWB? Monogamous-non-cohabiting partner?), or if I should just walk away. Anyways, the life story...

    I was raised as an only child of a single mom; Dad died when I was a toddler, and she never remarried. Mom was about the most 'male' woman I've ever met. She had me late in life in her late 30's. She's religious, but not oppressively so. She's got a healthy libertarian streak that comes from growing up dirt poor but being self-made and eventually affluent, self-taught herself everything - business. So and she's actually pretty cool; self reliant, calm, keeps her emotions in check, all that. Hell, if you called her a feminist, she'd give you the stink-eye and set you straight. She enrolled me in the Air Cadets and the Big Brother program to help give me a male role model in my life. So I'm not going to blame anything in my life on mommy-issues, she was for all intents and purposes, a female dad. But growing up as an only child of a professional parent who wasn't around that much, I became self-reliant / self-centered (depends on who you ask).

    I'm 40 now, and have been in some good and bad relationships. I can assign blame where it's due... Sometimes it's the woman's fault, but sometimes it's mine; I haven't been an angel all my life. I was a late bloomer - never had a girlfriend until I was 20 or so. But, I have always done well for myself in meeting women. I'm not great looking, but I'm just a bit on the happy side of 5/10. But I'm charming and clever, I have a leadership position, I write music, and women like that stuff. So the women I've dated have all been attractive. It's not just a random fact, it'll be pertinent later...

    1. So the first GF was a year older than me, we were in our early 20's. Now at this time, I was a soldier in the Reserves (the Canadian version of the National Guard essentially) but also I was in university, but I sucked at it and my marks were poor. She was studying engineering, so she was actually pretty rational. But she used her rationality to get what she wanted. She was really nice and reasonable, but she would apply pressure backed up with admittedly sound logic. She wanted a suburban fantasy to come true, with a white picket fence, a hubby, children and a dog named spot. I'm an urbanite, was raised in a downtown area, I also wasn't ready for kids, or marriage. She pressured me to change my field of study, to become an accountant. My job wasn't that good, I was blue collar and in the Army Reserves, but she wanted a professional man. She used her decent command of logic to try to convince me to change my study and my career path, but also to get me to commit to marriage and kids. I was too stupid to realize it was a mistake, so I agreed and then turned into a dick-head, subconsciously hoping she would dump me I suppose... Which she (mercifully) did. Sadly for me, I released from the Army (at her cajoling) but the paperwork came through within weeks of her dumping me. So I released for nothing. But out of the Army now, I tried something else; I toured as an gigging musician for a while.

    2. The second GF (after a couple of short-terms and one-night-stands) was a bombshell. Way outta my league. I met her in a neighbouring city a few hours away by car and we'd see each other every second weekend. I was becoming a local-town celebrity, playing gigs every couple of weekends, and I should have figured out that this gorgeous woman was status-seeking. But I was getting action and I felt like I deserved this hottie. Of course, living in a different city, she was on her best behaviour when I was around, and returned to being a hag to everybody she knew the other 11/14 days. Needless to say, there were drugs involved for both of us at this point. Within about 8 months though, she and I both decided to quit that shit, and that I would re-join the Army. Without the military, I didn't have sufficient structure in my life, and I went off the rails. So I got back in. Around the same time, she moved to my city - without consulting me. But she went from having a decent bank job and living with her parents, to being unemployed and paying for her own rent. So, she mentioned that she was thinking about stripping. Being a post-2nd-wave little brainwashed feminist at the time, I thought there was no problem with her doing this, and agreed. Needless to say, she made a ton of money (once she learned how to dance, she became a headliner) but she was always broke. She got into coke, and started turning the crazy up to 11. I would draw away from her, and she would get more desperate to keep me, even to the point of contriving to get kicked out of her appartment (so she could move in with me in my shitty 450 sq foot shoebox), and faking illnesses for attention. Thanks hun. In the end, I volunteered for a deployment overseas, just to get away from her. I dumped her by phone from camp. While I was there, it was my first deployment in a non-infantry trade, and I loved it. So, I committed to the military, and stayed off the drugs. Funny story - I gave them full disclosure, but they re-hired me anyways... But I got "randomly tested" at least three times in just over a year...

    (to be continued...)
    Last edited by Chairborne; May 24, 2014 at 5:12 PM. Reason: removed a piece of personal information

  2. #2
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    (...continued)

    #3. I got back from deployment, and decided to do more Army stuff. I volunteered for a three-year gig in the Arctic with them. I went up North, and kept the music thing going, but not as intensely. But, I became once again a minor local celebrity. So once again, I met a woman that way. I don't know if this one was so much status-seeking as the last one, but she was a lot more honest, and sane. Sadly, she also drank the feminist, socialist, and every other type of far-leftist kool-aid. 9/11 happened at that time, but being in the Arctic, a lot of that stuff passed me by. Much to my regret of course, I wanted to go run off to Afghanistan and save the day, but I had a solid commitment in the Arctic. Anyways, #3 grew up in the North, and wanted to get to a big city. Being in love, I agreed - I cut my contract short (not to go to Afghanistan, but move to a major city). We were there for a while, and lived together. It was genuinely the happiest moments of my life living with her. Neither of us wanted kids, and she went with me when I got a vasectomy. Eventually I needed to go to Afghanistan - I didn't want to be that soldier who avoids deployment, even though she didn't want me to go. I entertained her concerns, but went anyways (I had started developing more independent instincts I guess). Halfway through the tour, she asks me for an 'open relationship', since I was the selfish one who left her back in the big city. Oddly enough, all that deployment money was going to pay for our house - once she got that she didn't feel the need to wait for me to come back to get action. She fucked 'That Guy from the dog park', and dumped me - telling me that NOW she wanted kids. Funny anecdote after the end of this relationship; I remember coming home from deployment, full tan kit on. I was pretty scary looking to be honest. I walk into my own house, she's not there, but That Guy from the dog park is in my kitchen. I asked him what he was doing there, he said "waiting for her". I told him to wait someplace else, and he slunk out the back door. Six months later, he stole five grand from her and disappeared to the West Coast. nice guy. #3 tried consistently to get me back. Sorry hun, that door's closed to you now, I wasted 7 of my best, most youthful years on this one.

    #4. I then did internet dating for a while. I was really earnest, trying to find a good relationship. I wouldn't send out tons of messages; rather than "carpet bombing" the website, I took a "precision targeting" approach, only contacting 2 or 3 women every couple of weeks, ones who I really thought there might be potential. I dated with no long term success for almost five years (though admittedly there was a couple more deployments in there). Long story short, after my last deployment, I got a professional-level civilian job (I'm still in the Reserves however, but I'm a senior position after a couple of decades in the military). I eventually met a woman. She was a national-level, Team Canada competitor in a major (non-Olympic) sport. She was so committed to her training, we hardly saw each other. It was great, we maintained a monagamous but limited-contact relationship. As a guy who likes privacy (only child, remember?), I really liked that situation. She thought like a male in a lot of ways - unemotional, driven, self-motivated all that. Her day job was in the hard sciences too, clinical research stuff. However, eventually she pulled away. This is the only one I regret losing. I took too much of the casual relationship for granted, and we got into a really boring rut. Come over, dinner, DVD, screw, repeat next week or maybe the week after. We had an amicable break-up. Yeah, she wasn't perfect - she would train past injury and do damage to herself, she was a closed communicator - but those problems were manageable. I tried getting back with her, but along came...

    #5. The current one. I met her while broken up with #4. I'm terrified that I've made a huge mistake here. Before entering reconnecting with #4, I put up a profile online again, and #5 contacted me. She was into a lot of the same hobbies... I figured that since my failure with #4 was our lack of shared interests, dating a chick who's also into my hobbies (at this time cycling and X-country skiing, I stopped weights just recently due to an injury) would be the ticket. #5 pressured me to commit right away. I had to make a choice fast - she was, after mere weeks, wanting to set facebook statuses and tag me in pics as her BF. I didn't see this as an indicator unfortunately, and I bit the hook. Being with #5 is what made me search out MRAs, and from there I found MGTOW. She's a widow of a crackhead, and formerly an abused child... So I excused a lot of her behaviour. But she underperforms, she has a shit job, bitches about her work ALL THE TIME, and she's hyper-critical of me. She nitpicks. She criticizes. I've never been criticized and belittled as frequently, or politely (yes, polite belittling exists) as with her. Ok, I'm not perfect, but I have never been told I chew too loud, I'm lazy, I'm selfish, I'm 'delicate' (a funny thing to say to a guy who's brought more Taliban to Allah than has brought women to orgasm, but I digress). She's a drama queen. Fucks like a champ, but a nagging drama queen. Luckily I'm allergic to her dog, so I have an excuse for telling her "we'll never live together". At 40, I'm now comfortable with telling a woman flat out that we can see each other, but we will never cohabit or share finances.

    Here's the thing: I truly believe that NAWALT. I have seen concrete evidence of it, twice. But I'm realistic enough to realize that the NAWALTs are so mind-boggling rare, I'll never find one again. So I'm debating three courses of action; I can keep it casual with #5 and limit my contact, I can go for the long shot try to find another #4, or I can go my own way. Honestly, I know my problems are minor compared to most guys; I have no child custody issues, no major financial loss (I recovered from losing the house to #3 and Darren, with no child support of alimony changing hands), and I've kept women far enough away that I've taken no significant damage to my life. So, can I keep this pattern up? Do I need to go my own way?

    TL/DR...

    Sorry this was so long. The synopsis: Army guy with a string of relationships, I've learned that the good ones are so rare, and the bad ones pretend they're good, so it's almost impossible to find them. Now I'm trying to decide whether to go my own way, or to just keep a FWB / casual thing going, or renew the search for a NAWALT.
    Last edited by Chairborne; May 24, 2014 at 5:15 PM. Reason: Removed identifying information

  3. #3
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    THANK YOU for making your intro so long! We may hold this up as an example of how to do it right!

    Welcome aboard - glad you got home safe from your deployments.

    My one bit of advice - borrowed from Jagrmeister: Being single is not a problem to be solved.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  4. #4
    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Welcome!

    I agree with Beijaflor, why not do your own thing for a while and see how you feel in "your new normal"?

  5. #5
    Senior Member GabrielKnight's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Great intro and a lot of interesting stories.

    You sound like a successfull, nice and down-to-earth guy. You have already realized how difficult it is to tell the NAWALT from the crazies-in-disguise. Nobody here will tell you what to do. The only thing we tell people is: Donīt marry, donīt have children! EVER! But you were wise enough to make that decision already. (And probably every guy on this forum made the same decision)

    Why donīt you just enjoy yourself for a while? You seem to have a lot of things going for you. Enjoy your own money. You donīt have to spend it on women. Maybe you want to take up music again, even if itīs just a hobby. And you seem to be doing well with the ladies, so if you enjoy casual sex, nothing wrong with that too.

    Being a MGTOW man just means that you do what YOU want. And most important: Enjoy life!

  6. #6
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Thanks guys. I really appreciate the advice!

    I guess I'm new to the concept. If I had to put a date on it, I knew about MRAs for years, but only found out about MGTOW and the red pill a few months ago. I assumed that going my own way meant celibacy... But yeah, I have ZERO attention of giving a woman any form of legal power over me through cohabitation, pregnancy or fatherhood, etc.

    In a lot of ways, I've been a quasi-MGTOW since the end of relationship #3... I would have a woman, but keep her at arms length and do my own thing. That's partly why #5 keeps pulling at me harder and harder, she doesn't "get" that I want S P A C E for myself much of the time.

    Anyways, full disclosure: I'm not MGTOW yet I guess. But I'm definitely leaning that direction.

  7. #7
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairborne View Post
    Anyways, full disclosure: I'm not MGTOW yet I guess. But I'm definitely leaning that direction.
    Are you living your life according to your own terms?

    You don't have a "slave-handler" with a vagina, dragging you along by the balls to the mall, do you?

    If you have no Mistress deciding your fate ... if you are the Captain of your soul ...

    That is MGTOW enough!

    (Just for reference's sake, for "Captain of your soul," I offer this classic poetry ...)

    Last edited by BeijaFlor; February 26, 2014 at 3:59 AM.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  8. #8

    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Welcome! And thank you for sharing your experience. If we're trying to accomplish anything, it's that we offer you the Red Pill, what happens after that is up to each person. I was hesitant when I took the Red Pill 2 months ago but my mind was urging me to dive into the rabbit hole. It was like a fog was lifted. I think if your life is better after knowing all that you know now, then we've done our part and we hope that you live your life to how you want it.

    Cheers!

  9. #9
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Cheers Kyojiro, thanks BeijaFlor!

  10. #10
    Super Moderator sirreaper's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Great intro, indeed welcome!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Man, that is a hell of an intro! Welcome!

  12. #12

    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    That was a great intro! You were making me miss my military days.

    I had one of those logical down to earth ones myself. Can't say for sure what I would have done if I met her at a different time in my life. She was pretty even keeled- for the most part. It boiled down to me not wanting to be married or having kids and exposing myself to the court system. I am not going to give a woman a loaded gun for the sake of her putting it to my head whenever she may decide to.

    Because:

    She's a widow of a crackhead, and formerly an abused child... So I excused a lot of her behaviour. But she underperforms, she has a shit job, bitches about her work ALL THE TIME, and she's hyper-critical of me. She nitpicks. She criticizes. I've never been criticized and belittled as frequently, or politely (yes, polite belittling exists) as with her. Ok, I'm not perfect, but I have never been told I chew too loud, I'm lazy, I'm selfish, I'm 'delicate' (a funny thing to say to a guy who's brought more Taliban to Allah than has brought women to orgasm, but I digress). She's a drama queen. .
    That is most of the women I am familiar with, to some extent. Whether they be related or not. So many of them share so many behaviors.

    So, I'm single now, and have decided for now that is the best position for me. If It Ain't Broke I'm Not Going To Fix It.

    Welcome to the forum!

  13. #13
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Welcome.

    Whatever you choose from your options is up to you. If you do choose the GF route, the idea of maintaining a girl in a casual relationship is one of the reasons we have the Game forum. Having a GF is compatible with MGTOW and one of the ideas behind the Game forum is to discuss things like setting boundaries with GFs/FWB's, how to avoid ending up on the "conveyor belt" towards marriage, practicing relationship game (ie: see this, and this, and this). This includes conversational techniques to maintain the upper hand in the relationship, call her on her bullsh*t, modifying her behavior (ie: discouraging her nagging), using female options or the perception of options to change the way she responds to you, etc. Sharing our learnings and adopting best practices.

  14. #14
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Hey Jagrmeister; Thanks for those links! I'll definitely take a look, probably over the weekend when I can give them the attention they deserve.

    I discovered your GYOW forum via Youtube. I was feeling like shit, having been nitpicked and belittled from my female, and I started watching videos from a dude named BarBar. It made me feel a little better, but he seemed just too angry to be truly objective in his analysis - at least for me he seemed that way. A Sandman video was on the right, I clicked it, and I thought that this Sandman guy was a much more cooly detached from the issue, and his analysis seemed tighter and more objective. Anyways, there was a youtube comment that pointed here.

    Long story short, when I found this forum, I was in a rut. But seeing the positive, emancipating tone here, this looks like a really good place - congrats on starting a good community amigo. Anyways, the more I read here, the more I feel that GMOW is right for me.

  15. #15

    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    This mgtow thing doesn't have any rules, only guidelines:-

    - don't get married.

    - don't cohabit.

    - don't have children.

    The above three tend to preclude going one's own way. Otherwise, do what you like - but do it for you and you alone.

    The modern western female is generally toxic, but if handled with care, can be an amusing form of entertainment. Kind of like diving with sharks ...

  16. #16
    Member SHADO's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Quote Originally Posted by ubermensch View Post
    This mgtow thing doesn't have any rules, only guidelines:-

    - don't get married.

    - don't cohabit.

    - don't have children.

    The above three tend to preclude going one's own way. Otherwise, do what you like - but do it for you and you alone.

    The modern western female is generally toxic, but if handled with care, can be an amusing form of entertainment. Kind of like diving with sharks ...
    With fricken lasers on their heads!!
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  17. #17
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Just scratched the surface here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairborne View Post
    So I'm debating three courses of action... I'm trying to decide whether to go my own way, or to just keep a FWB / casual thing going, or renew the search for a NAWALT.
    An update: I'm done with female insanity. I'm going my own way. I mention it just for closure on this thread. Thanks so much to the people here who supported me in this decision. Had I not found this forum I'd be spending this time on PoF or OKCupid having my dignity shoved through the wringer right now instead. Again, thanks.


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