Thread: hi guys, this is my intro

I live in the Europe and this is the first mgtow forum i have joined. I heard of mgtow about five years ago and was suprised there was such a thing since what I read about it was exactly my thoughts from when i was 17. I am 44 now, life seems to teach you wisdom when you are too old to use it, thats how i feel now though senior members here and others may recognise where I am.I have a friend who is 72 who wishes he was 44 again but there we go.

I am an angry man right now. One reason is that a year ago a mental health profesional suggested to me, ' had i considered aspergers?'. When i was in university 15 yrs prior it was also suggested by the disability service as my anxiety was so high it was affecting my studies. I did not think so then but an appointment with a psychiatrist who was a pig and cleary did not want to be there said I was not as I had empathy and that if i didn't have empathy then I had all the traits of an aspie, so I left and got on with my life. The second time though, last year, I started reading again about it and realised this is me.I approached an aspergers organistaion here and they have councelled me over skype on the assumption that I am aspie. I have yet to be assessed formally. I know that in the USA and countries that use you're diagnostic criteria that aspergers is not now a stand alone diagnosis but in Europe it still is. i have a few thoughts about the pros and cons of a formal diagnosis, what doors it might shut but then again I have a mortgage anyway and I am middleaged so it would just be confirmation rather than likely to close any doors now. Bear with me as the reason I mention it is because I have a differnt way of thinking and find it much harder to understand indirect and non-verbal language which has probably helped nudge me down the mgtow road.I am angry at the wasted years and the many missed oppourtunities as a result of this. Angry that I have been treated like dirt by so many people, especially women probably oweing to their greater use of indirect and non verbal communication.

I am also ,despite knowing of mgtow, a very 'young' mgtow. If viewed through the concept of a grieving process as more and more of the scales fall from my eyes and I see the world for what it is and the vastness of the lie that has been sold to me as a man, then I am very much still in the anger phase of this grief or transformation. I do not like being angry and sometimes wonder how long before i can naturally detatch and be at peace.

I made a big mistake after leaving high school and became a christian. No offence to others here who are christians and for whom it works, it never did for me but I really believed it and bought into the doctrines and teachings of evangelical/charismatic christianity. It may seem hard to understand how big a deal this is if you have no connection to a similar religious expereince. I wasted alot of my life in it, alot of my youth but I think it also protected me from some things. I might have had children ; as a niave young man I probably would have been fodder for females. I was never a very good christian. The issue of females was intrinsic to this. I quickly understood that i was invisible to all peer women, I understand this was oweing to my non proffesional status in a world where once the decision to partner up and marry is made it is very much a life commitment and I did not have the resource providing qualifications for this, nor as an introvert (an probable aspie) did I posses the social skills and social resources to be visible to females. For a year in my understanding and anger I adopted mgtow principles but these being largely against christian mythos of love for ones fellows I found the whole thing to much to maintain and went back to being a weak drone. For years i had thought about visiting escorts and one day plucked up the coarage to go to a 'massage parlour' to deal with this. I had lost my virginity to an ugly girl, a co-worker, I had no interest in from work at age 22 but this was an event I considered as down to luck and unlikely to happen again for years since, and i kid you not absolutly no females were interested in me. Going to see escorts was interesting. Here I had met peer age and older women who actually spoke to me as an equal and could actually see me , I was not invisible nor was I inferior or any of the other ways I felt. I was aware I was paying them but they made me feel good and normal. A lie i had bought into was that they were all abused or junkies. Nothing could be further from the truth. They were all mothers, students, nurses, school teachers or wives. They had high self esteem and considered themselves profesionals in a very lucerative job.I wish I had left it at that, but I didn't.

I began to leave chrsitianity aged 32. I had married a woman whom i thought I was very lucky to meet as she was 39, beautiful, horny and appeared stable. Bear in mind I was a complete beta drone and bought the lie hook, line and sinker. I kid you not from the moment the ring was on the finger things changed.Her personality transformed in the car on the way to our reception and never went back. Her wedding present to me was to let me know she had been sexually abused as a child which was her get out clause for everything and the blanket explanation for all kinds of cruel behaviours. She became an utterly controlling, gas-lighting, lying manuipulative woman. I am embarrassed to recall this. How I managed to leave that relationship is a wonder but I did and it took me about six months to complete because of her mental control over me. Funnily after that final , "I want out" talk it went very fast and so began an interesting part of my life.
The end of the marraige changed everything for me as I expereinced all the people I knew side with her, 'the deserted victim' and me as the cruel man. I could not belive that older educated men could buy into and believe everything she said and not think critically that there might be faults on both sides. As these were christian men, I basically ran from the christian faith sticking my finger up as I went. One later apologised to me but it was too late. All those years down a blind alley.
After this i started to go to night clubs and despite my poor knowledge of flirting etc actually managed to find sexual partners and learn alot that I probably would have learned much earlier except for my time spent as a christian.
But it was painful as I expereinced how flakey and apparently incogruent women were. How their behaviour consisted of lies and was contrary to what they verbalised. I tried to learn game ( which i viewed as lying) with some degrees of success. Immediatly after my marraige I had not really known what to do so i used to lift weights in my garage and got really into it. I was suprised as I grew from a skinny guy into a well built guy how I became literally a magnet for female interest despite hearing all my life how women did not apprently like muscley guys. Regretably i slept with a couple of married women in full knowledge of their status. I regret this immensly. I thought I was smart but even as I type all these years on I regret it bitterly. Their husbands were probably normal guys and didn't deserve it. I paid for it though in drama as the pair of them were horrible individuals and stuck the knife in when they lost interest.

As I hit my forties I was becoming somthing new and taking stock of my life alot. My soon to be recognised aspergers traits were becoming more problematic for me, especially eye contact which I had always detested as neurologically offensive but nessesery for flirting. Because of increasing stress and pressure I began to use the 1000 yard stare in public to avoid all eye contact and found it was doing something weird. Despite having had some earlier success with women I found in detatching myself more through the no eye contact thing, I was getting alot of attention from females.But this was not a good thing.Young women from late teens into twenties were starting to pay attention aswell as peer women; post-wall, party girl types who once would never have even noticed me if I had bumped into them were now trying to give me stares etc. This was an eye opening time for me and the begining of my adult mgtow opening phase. Young women viewing guys with anything less than exceptional in terms of social skills ,as invisible, appear to prefer older men as they view them as mature enoguh to date.Post wall women looking to settle after their years of fun , now notice me as i am stable(ish) dependable, conservative and predicatable. Not much of a compliment is it? I cannot bring myself to pay attention to either demographic. To do so makes me feels abhorrent, sick and used. I am not here to be used. I once read online, a female of the previously described type saying it was a win win situation since she had liked bad boys but was now interested in quieter men as she had matured. I find that mentality staggering in its arrogance. A few years agoIi saw an example of of this on holiday .Some chump who was obviously besotted with his new wife as she posed for photos taken by him. He had clearly hit above his weight and was probably delighted but I thought to myself, jesus i wonder how many she went through before she met a nice affulent man like you.Poor man.

I am not great at writing. In short, bitter expereince and rejection led me to mgtow.I have never fitted in but mgtow provides a philosophy and framework for me to live within that may give some peace and dignity. I am still greiving and dissapointed that the world of men and women does not fit the garbage i was taught. I am glad I have no ties, no children etc. My hope is to settle some years from now in my knowledge of the truth, in the light of my aspergers and my newish acceptance of mgtow lifestyle and find some peace.

Hobbies-wise I like pc gaming, the internet, films, weight training and long distance walking ( lowland trails). i have even returned to my childhood love of all things trains and locomotives since I am too old to be shamed and mocked for my interests. Theistically I am now pagan ( northern european).I am non evangelical in this and find it fits me well, it is morally undemanding of me and suits my reclusive nature. There is no need to join any organisation etc, no one can bother me with unsolicited 'advice' nor as a lone practitioner am i under any pressure to socialise atall oweing to the absence of any scriptural or doctrinal imperitive.

My reason for joining this forum is to put some roots down somewhere and learn a bit through other expereinces, a place to perhaps find some fellowship and perhaps too in the course of time somthing i write may help someone else.be a while before that happens lol but this is early days mgtow for me, i need to solidify what it is going to mean for me.The one thing i have settled on is it will be a fairly hermit-like path i am going to stick to as it is what is natural for me.

Seems nicely done to me JT. Kind a windy, but that's better than having to ask you for more. Welcome.

Thanks Frog, i appreciate the welcome.

Somthing to add about my personal history that has influenced my path to mgtow and my being glad i took the red pill is this.

My father whom I now consider highly likely is also aspergers, divorced my mother when i was around 9. This was personally a very good thing as he was a very aggressive individual and this shadow withdrew from the family. I don't like to diss another man, much less now i am sure he was aspie ( it is a highly hereditory condition although not purely). As a man who is older than he was when he made some of his poor decisions no doubt based on high stress and anxiety, i see I am very like him. It would not be strange for a son to be like his father of course but our neurological traits are very similar.

As an introverted young man I was pestered by both christian and non christian women, even if they had never sppoken to me before, approaching me and using , " you are awlfully quiet" as a conversation opener. To such a man I could only see this as critisim. Others have told me it is only an observation or that it may have been attempts at conversation. An issue I have with the modern day movements like the socially destructive #metoo movement is that much has been spoken of regarding men saying "smile" to women etc and how irritating this is to them. But i have my expereince that women equally use such openers but apparently this is ok. As i stated I tend to ignore all women which produces a desire in some to see me as a challenge or something.

I recall an incident at a bus stop, i was waiting in the city minding my own business, coming towards me were a group of very attractive young wome on a night out. I stared past them, waiting on my bus, puffing on my ecig, and could feels their eyes on me.As one passed she lightly clipped shoulders with me ( there was no physical need to do so as the pavement was wide) and shouted out, " oh I'll just go home now then". This is acceptable ? but a man approaching a woman is not? Yet I am sure had I looked at them i would have been met with rolling eyes etc.This is why i have to withdraw. All emotion and no logic. A man cannot win in this set up.I digress.


My mother and my two sisters all proclaimed themselves feminists and I heard as a boy that ,"all men are bastards" etc etc. feminism is often touted as protecting children from abuse as part of their movement. I do not see this nor did i expereince it. As the years have gone by i saw my mother marry again and her expereince was a happy one.I lived to here her denounce feminism as did my two sisters.Once they were married of course. I do not deny the right of anyone to choose their path but my expereince as a youth was that feminism is harmful and born in their case from emotional pain.It is projected anger as a way to cope. Apologists for feminism might argue that they were not 'real' feminists but i think they were as real as whatever excuse for feminism exists today. ( is it 3rd or 4th wave?) We are all aware that women hate and feel challenged by mgtow. I find it ridiculous that any feminist could ever have a problem with mgtow if they were being impartial. The fact that they do leads me to conclude that a woman who labels herself feminist but hates or is threatened by mgtow; for them it is coming from shock at the loss of control over men. That at a wide and cultural level the lies and conditioning are not working and are being challenged so offence is taken.

I know that this is basic and is obvious to all in such a forum but I write it to flesh out my expereince a little and to indicate some of the issues I am excercised by.

Jacktravel,

Could you please post with paragraphs? It is very difficult to read without breaks.
You seem like a genuine guy who is going through the red pill rage stage. I and others had to go through it, please be patient and caring to yourself.

Originally Posted by Jacktravel

i have even returned to my childhood love of all things trains and locomotives since I am too old to be shamed and mocked for my interests.

Ha, I like that. Good for you.

An issue I have with the modern day movements like the socially destructive #metoo movement is that much has been spoken of regarding men saying "smile" to women etc and how irritating this is to them. But i have my expereince that women equally use such openers but apparently this is ok.

Many people only complain about their experiences as a recipient of life, but women are especially followers of this, for their loud reactions and the payments that they seek for damages. To do this fits into their self-centrism.

We are all aware that women hate and feel challenged by mgtow. I find it ridiculous that any feminist could ever have a problem with mgtow if they were being impartial. The fact that they do leads me to conclude that a woman who labels herself feminist but hates or is threatened by mgtow; for them it is coming from shock at the loss of control over men.

And the loss of attention, very important to women. Even a theoretical loss upsets them. Also sometimes I think they act as part of a neural network where anything affects them, a means of giving themselves permission to weigh in on anything, including things for which they lack wisdom and vision, as we know.

I am not great at writing.

I would tend to disagree. You wrote a very good and interesting Intro.

Thank you, and welcome!

Hey thanks guys.

Never heard of red pill rage stage but I think thats apt and helpful thats an accepted thing that one goes through, thats good knowledge ,thankyou. I went back and put a few breaks in that second one Opaque.

Thanks for you're words Unboxxed. This concept of attention is very strong isn't it? I'd say I get a fairly significant reaction to it every couple of days, interestingly from women working in stores I go to regularly. Had one very deliberately turn her back on me the other day when i walked passed her after weeks of her trying to catch my eye. I just smiled to myself and went about my shopping. She works there and I am a customer.

Man, I feel your pain regarding religion. There's a link to my own intro in my signature, you might want to check it out.

As for being aspie: it is what it is. There's nothing that can be done about it, and there's nothing much that needs to be done about it.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

You and I have a lot in common. Yeah, I can feel the roots taking hold of this fertile ground. Welcome.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

Man, I feel your pain regarding religion. There's a link to my own intro in my signature, you might want to check it out.

As for being aspie: it is what it is. There's nothing that can be done about it, and there's nothing much that needs to be done about it.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Hi Wombat, that was a great intro , I found so much in there I identify with, very similar stories. I too was in a christian houseshare and dating a screwed up woman among the housemates.

The whole thread was very good actually, a see a good number of ex christians here then.

Regarding praise and worship yes, for many years prior to my deconversion i got a sense that women were getting sexy with jesus and ditto about jesus being presented as some form of uber- lover along with the vulgar Dionysian imagery that got them horny for the lord.

that kind of christianity actually works to emasculate and tone down men and present them as cuddly teddy bears that the frustrated angry women don't want anyway. Its a really bad set up and am so glad I left it.

Thanks Joetech, this forum is really helpful, Im getting alot of identification with posts I read and solid no holds barred opinion.

Isn't it refreshing?

Originally Posted by Joetech

Isn't it refreshing?

Like rain on parched ground bud.

I had to chuckle when I read that part about your 72 year old friend who wishes he was 44 again. I'm 64 and I'm looking forward to 70. Why? Here's a funny but true story you can share with your friend. Benjamin Franklin was in his early 70's by the time he became ambassador to France. By then he was famous, and had always been quite the ladies man and a real charmer by all reports. He would go to parties where the French elite hung out trying to make connections that would get the U.S. some much needed help against the British. At one such party the famous French poet Voltaire was there. He was 90. After the party broke up and the women were done swooning over Ben and hanging on his every word flirtatiously, Voltaire turned to Ben and said, "Ahhh, to be 70 again."

I will, when he next says it or an oppurtunity comes up.