View Poll Results: How do you Identify?

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  • Bachelor

    25 27.17%
  • Neutral

    31 33.70%
  • Ghost

    36 39.13%
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  1. #21
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Ghost or neutral? Neutral, I think. The ghosts are a bit hard-core for me.

    I'm more ghosty in that I live alone, don't interact with female rellos, ex-wives, anything. If I died tomorrow, it wouldn't impact a lot of people in any significant way (except my useless fucking brother would get my money and waste it, like he wasted the inheritance from mum. MUST write a will!).

    But I seek out being around people, sometimes. Go to the bar and just hang around. Don't approach people or anything, but there's a minimum of human contact that I look for.

    Pfft - maybe I am a ghost. I don't make eye-contact with people. I live exclusively inside my own head. I make a hobby of walking quietly (snip off the aglets, it helps). I can slip though a crowd without touching anyone. I'm startled and taken aback when anyone notices me or chooses to speak to me outside a work context. Getting on the floor and dancing makes me feel self-concious and stupid, I mean: what am I actually supposed to be achieving out here? Ok, I'm moving around to the beat, a bit. Then what?

    Thing is: identifying as ghost strikes me as being, well, a tiny tiny bit over-judgemental sometimes. There's sort of this hard-coreness, this alphaness, this "cabin in the woods" survivalist vibe around the notion of coming out as ghost, and I'm a gamma. (If the greek letters irritate you, consider yourself trolled.)

    Ok, I have persuaded myself. I'll put myself in a subcategory: "natural" ghost. Call it social anxiety, call it depression, call it schizoid personality disorder. Whatever. But there's not much to say about it on a forum beyond is what it is.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I'm gonna go with neutral, because I have elements of both bachelor and ghost depending on the context. Based on the topics, I'd probably be posting 50/50 in bachelor/neutral, with some ghost on the side.

  3. #23

    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Bachelor is probably the closest one for me, so I chose that.

  4. #24
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I don't often log on and comment in this forum, but I do check it every day. I enjoy the variety of comments from people with widely varying points of view. Some are still struggling to swallow the redpill, others have found their level and are living it.

    I feel that to partition the forum would be a mistake, because no-one stays in one place for long and each individual will be progressing to somewhere else at their own pace. Let us all see the broad view, not just our own little slice of it.

    To me this forum has been a lifetime of education in one tiny package. Keep it the way it is.

  5. #25
    Senior Member The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Jagr, I am not exactly sure where your going with this. Are you just making up some sub-forums for MGTOW's that are more like minded and leaving the rest of the site alone or are you attempting to break off the site into smaller groups based on the perspectives of the members? Myself I would be someplace in between a Bachelor or Neutral just because of how things are for me currently. For example I don't normally do LTR's anymore, however this is simple for me because the woman fucks that up long before anyone can call it an LTR. Problem is that the current woman I am seeing has not made that mistake that causes me to run for the hills.

    Okay, what slot I fit into I am really not worried about. What I am worried about is hearing from the guys here that either disagree with me or try to warn me that I might be doing something wrong. I need the guys here to remind me that "no good deed goes unpunished", that I might be taking a risk that is too great. Hell I know myself I've posted a few things here that had a lot of guys warning me that I could be screwing myself. I think that any one of us that have been on MGTOW forums like this one have either disagreed or taken a risk that others would not. The thing is that even if I do disagree with someone here, I know that the guy is not trying to be mean, he is just trying to look out for me. It is that disagreement that helps to shape a new perspective on things. So even if you are creating a few new sub-forums I hope you keep The Lobby in tact and keep most of the site together as is. I need to hear from the guys that don't agree or caution me on my actions. I also need to hear from those men that are not afraid to tell it like it is.
    Not a prisoner I'm a free man
    And my blood is my own now
    Don't care where the past was
    I know where I'm going ...OUT !!!!

  6. #26
    Senior Member KingofWisdom's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I can see how a negative comment could completely derail a thread, but at the same time, if the forum is divided into subsections based on our different outlooks, on some level echo chambers are being created so that there is less conflict.
    I say fuck authority, silent majority. Raised by the system, now it's time to rise against them.
    We're sick of your treason, sick of your lies. Fuck no, we won't listen. We're gonna open your eyes.

  7. #27
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Well I answered Ghost since its closer to the way I live my life than the other two. I however would be dismayed to see it all burn since society isn't necessarily all bad. I try to keep society at arms length for my peace of mind and comfort. But I don't mind socializing and exchanging with quality people. Its just that this gynocentric business is spiraling out of control and is eating more and more social space. In order to insulate myself from that places like GYOW are purely essential.

    I don't know if separating ourselves into distinct groups will really change much, negativity always finds a way. Why don't we just make an unofficial "gentleman's agreement" to not be too negative.

  8. #28
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    ...


    ...


    Here are the groups:




    Bachelors (MGTOW)- Focus on self-improvement, socializing. Open to dating, open to taking action (see action subforum). Male fraternity. Red pill (about women) is just one subcategory. Outlook is optimistic.


    Neutrals (MGTOW) - More about contentment, risk-mitigation. Discussing Red Pill is primary topic: attitudes of women, female behavior, how relationships/marriages can sour. The impact of feminism in the workplace, in life in general. Generally not interested in dating, or taking action (ie: MRA).

    Ghosts (MGTOW)- a fulfilling life on their own. De-prioritize socializing. Generally perceive the world as declining and a dim view of their fellow man. Strategies for living life on their own in a rewarding way.

    ....
    Could we have an Optimistic Ghosts category ? That's where I would fall. I am interested in a fullfilling life on my own, and de prioritize (to put it very mildly) socializing, and always interested in strategies for living life on my own in a rewarding way.. But I am FAR from viewing the world as declining. Overall, I am very happy about where the world is now, and I expect it to be even better in the future. The things I am not happy about (many, including the current feminist regime), I have managed to stay away from. The world I carved out for myself, I am happy about it and expect to be even happier next year and the foreseeable future (until I become too old to be happy).

    It's hard to make Optimistic Ghosts a subcategory of Ghosts if the definition of Ghosts includes "Generally perceive the world as declining and a dim view of their fellow man.". Maybe we can remove "Generally perceive the world as declining and a dim view of their fellow man." from the definition of Ghosts, then have a Gloomy Ghosts sub category where "Generally perceive the world as declining and a dim view of their fellow man." is added back to the definition. We can then have Optimistic Ghosts as a sub category of Ghosts.
    Last edited by Abdenour; July 27, 2015 at 7:24 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Ace Francis's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by flailer View Post
    I respect the topic.
    I respect thought & reasoning that went into the 3 categories.
    I respect the process that people will go through to answer the poll.

    BUT, at any given time I am in one or more of each category. So I will not answer the poll.

    I agree that the term MGTOW is difficult to define (and we all know why) and that in fact it makes unity so much less likely. BUT, there is NOTHING wrong with that. Afterall: I am MGTOW, fuk unity.

    In fact one can make a case for this difference being a strength. The lack of segregation (3 categories) means that differing people are exchanging ideas, and bashing around a point(s) of discussion.

    The problem with this is that the same issue often gets addressed again and again and again. This is sometimes good, as growth (maturity of the idea) can occur. When it is deja vu that is ok. When it turns boring, or frustrating, it is time to let someone else deal with it.

    Besides, I, personally, don't want an echo chamber.

    But, who am i?
    Flailor, you just totally spoke for me there. I had a BAD date today (her fucking idea, by the way). Makes me wanna go back to ghosting almost. But instead will just semi-ghost till something good goes along. Anyway, I never realized it that way. But like you say, I can alternate between these categories the last year at the change of he wind going the wrong way. Not in a fuck it angry way or anything like that. More of a Tao of Steve like way at times and at others, hell, a pissy "I need a break way." It just depends.

    I think it is a very thoughtful post to think out load about these three categorizations, Jagr. I have no idea whether it be better. It reminds me of forums that would have a married/dating/general categorization. In the reverse order. This place, in which I value married members despite not ever gonna do so myself (I am not quite top 10 enough, just a 5 or a 6 so why bother, ha ha?) Anyway, I prefer the way it was. But if some categorization goes on, it ain't fucking over the MGTOW concept to me. In fact, I see pluses and minuses.

    Bascially, thinking out loud after a few beers and all, I prefer the way it way (presuming this new categorizing thing would go through), but it is not like it ruins the forum to me. I barely just thought about it myself. Am more 50/50, well, 70/30 towards the old way without a catagorization. On the other hand, I see the upside of doing that. I ain't just saying that to agree with the OP/MOD and seem patronizing. I see some benefits. So if it goes in what I consider the 30% of labling, I do see an upside seriously.

    Either way, I and others here get the same ability to post messages without the overall concept changing. Pardon my thinking out. Anyway, that's how I see it.

  10. #30
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    One more comment: I already have my own, daily changing, categorization in my subconscious mind. I skip about half of the threads based on the title alone. Out of the third that I click on, for about half of them, I only read the first or the first couple of posts and click on the back button. So I am already doing less than a third of reading (or even skimming) without any division of the Lounge into sub categories.

    Maybe if the person who starts a thread had the power to delete replies in that thread, we could avoid the one glass of sewage added to a barrel of wine results in a barrel of sewage problem. So, if somebody starts a thread suggesting or asking for ideas on how one can a happy peaceful life in the outbacks of Australia, and somebody else replies ranting about how Australia has become a shit hole of feminism where men are slaves and men should stay away from Australia, the original poster could simply delete that reply and keep the thread on track for its original purpose.
    Last edited by Abdenour; July 27, 2015 at 9:01 AM. Reason: Spelling

  11. #31
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I personally lean more towards bachelor, however I can see how I can be a ghost at times haha.

  12. #32
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Bachelor, especially because of the optimistic outlook and the male fraternity bit. I agree that this site needs something like this. However, I have read some incredible posts by people who would probably put themselves in a different category and I would never have wanted to miss out on reading those. Tricky to implement such a change, how separate should the ghosts, neutrals and bachelors be?

    This is my first post in a while. I decided to leave because the posts were a bit red pill centered for my liking. Life has so much more to offer than female nature. So the fact that Jagr is thinking about a change like this really excites me, personally. Despite the fact that I left I do think that there are many things this site can build upon. We have an incredible amount of personal tales. I think the manner in which we engage in discussions is quite civil, well worded and often intelligent and interesting.

  13. #33
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdenour View Post
    Maybe if the person who starts a thread had the power to delete replies in that thread, we could avoid the one glass of sewage added to a barrel of wine results in a barrel of sewage problem. So, if somebody starts a thread suggesting or asking for ideas on how one can a happy peaceful life in the outbacks of Australia, and somebody else replies ranting about how Australia has become a shit hole of feminism where men are slaves and men should stay away from Australia, the original poster could simply delete that reply and keep the thread on track for its original purpose.
    I'm not sure we can do that, Abdenour, but we already have a work-around for it - simply report the post by hitting the yellow triangle icon in the bottom-left corner of the post. That brings it to the attention of the Mod Team, who can delete it.

    After reading your description of your browsing habits, I want to point out another facet to Jagr's categories - How much negativity are you willing to experience? (I'm reluctant to dwell on 'negativity,' in this fashion, but I think it deserves pointing out.) How deeply are you mired in the doom-and-gloom? How much "negative respect" do you have for your fellow man, or to stretch it further, your fellow human being?

    Or on the flip side of this, are you getting tired of the shit? Are you ready to get up and do something with your life, to make something of yourself - not in the "follow the herd / please the audience" manner of thinking, but in a direction that excites you and leads toward a better life? Would you like a space where you can get ideas and encouragement, that's oriented toward improving your future ... our future?
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  14. #34
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by BeijaFlor View Post
    I'm not sure we can do that, Abdenour, but we already have a work-around for it - simply report the post by hitting the yellow triangle icon in the bottom-left corner of the post. That brings it to the attention of the Mod Team, who can delete it.
    True. But would the moderators delete a reply that doesn't violate the terms of the forum ? Would the moderators delete a reply that simply says "Australia has become a shit hole of feminism where men are slaves and men should stay away from Australia", which, as far as I know, doesn't violate the terms of GYOW ? I was thinking of the ability of whoever starts a thread to have some control over the thread not veering way off topic. I understand it may not technically be possible for now. Hopefully in a future release of the software used for the forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeijaFlor View Post
    After reading your description of your browsing habits, I want to point out another facet to Jagr's categories - How much negativity are you willing to experience? (I'm reluctant to dwell on 'negativity,' in this fashion, but I think it deserves pointing out.) How deeply are you mired in the doom-and-gloom? How much "negative respect" do you have for your fellow man, or to stretch it further, your fellow human being?
    I don't mind negativity when it's educational, or if I am due to my weekly booster shot. It's hard to know in advance, but I try to guess from the thread's title, or use the back button after a reply or two of non educational negativity, knowing full well that I sometimes miss out good subsequent replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeijaFlor View Post
    Or on the flip side of this, are you getting tired of the shit?
    No. As I said before, I skip most of it. Very easy to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeijaFlor View Post
    Are you ready to get up and do something with your life, to make something of yourself - not in the "follow the herd / please the audience" manner of thinking, but in a direction that excites you and leads toward a better life? Would you like a space where you can get ideas and encouragement, that's oriented toward improving your future ... our future?
    Yes. For me, for 2015, that's health and entertainment. And I am getting some of both here on GYOW, mostly from the selective reading of what's in the lounge.

    I suspect that as moderators, you may feel compelled to read all of it, and don't have the luxury that I have of avoiding and ejecting from anything I don't like.

    One more comment: one thing I like at HappyBachelorsForum.com is the fact that they have two subforums named "American/Western Women behavior, confessions and whore stories" and "Divorce Law and Double Standards in the legal system". I very rarely ever click on those, but I suspect they soak up a lot of negativity that would otherwise go into the other sub forums. Maybe some similar kind of negativity magnet sub forum on GYOW could help here.

  15. #35

    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Divide and conquer is an excellent strategy. I think this plan will facilitate the work of the enemies of MGTOW.

  16. #36
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
    Divide and conquer is an excellent strategy. I think this plan will facilitate the work of the enemies of MGTOW.
    Take a good look around at the forum, and see how much "dividing and conquering" we're doing to ourselves already.

    Our goal is more akin to rebuilding an unsteady pillar, that often seems to be tearing itself apart, into a stable tripod that can stand strong on its three separate feet.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  17. #37
    Moderator William Noy's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    As a group, we seem to have trouble remembering that we're all on the same side. That is one thing SJWs rarely forget. They ARE all on the same side, even when, logically speaking, different SJW groups should be at each others throats.
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. --Seneca

  18. #38
    Senior Member Indianajohn's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Since I'm still married I don't fit in any of the three categories. Does that mean that I am no longer welcome here? If so, go ahead and ban me.
    No matter how attractive a woman is. No matter how beautiful she is. Somewhere, out there, some guy is sick of her shit.

  19. #39
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Indianajohn View Post
    Since I'm still married I don't fit in any of the three categories. Does that mean that I am no longer welcome here? If so, go ahead and ban me.
    Not so fast, Indianajohn ... this isn't a set of silos, not yet at any rate. You are as welcome as ever - as are all of us. And as William Noy reminds us, we are all on the same side, even though we seem to have trouble remembering it.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  20. #40

    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by William Noy View Post
    As a group, we seem to have trouble remembering that we're all on the same side. That is one thing SJWs rarely forget. They ARE all on the same side, even when, logically speaking, different SJW groups should be at each others throats.
    This (above in bold) is important to remember. No matter a person's politics, religion, race, etc. It's not the differences that should be focused on. It's the fact that we've all chosen certain things for ourselves and how we want to live our lives.

    William - I know I quoted you but this whole reply is not aimed specifically at you or anything of the sort. My comments are general overall after this point so please don't perceive any of this as coming specifically at you

    I haven't perceived that there has been a great rift, but I'm not deep into some of the sub forums on the site either.

    I'm loathe to classify myself as any of these three things. More labels - no thanks.

    I know this is a different place, with a different vibe, but I think trying to moderate from the perspective of each of those 'three points of view' is more trouble than it's worth sectionally on the board - than expecting people to be adults and cut the crap. I also think that by sub classifying the types (of MGTOW), one can potentially seem to lose ground (in maintaining group cohesion).

    If there are people causing trouble, those people should be dealt with. Having every one else further classify themselves seems overkill to just letting the ban hammer fall on those being assholes. From one perspective, it can be seen as accommodating the assholes by having everyone else divide themselves under a secondary (Bachelor, Neutral, Ghost...???) sub MGTOW classification .

    We recently had an issue at HQ where someone else had come into a conversation they weren't overly attached to in one of the 'interest' forums and we put a stop to that. We added a disclaimer and it's one that we should all follow. If a bunch of guys on here are discussing PUA, you don't see me in there slamming them for what they are discussing just because I'm not interested in the PUA aspect of things. It's along the lines - or it is directly the line of - "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't interrupt / speak. If I don't have anything positive to add to that conversation, then why the fuck would I be slamming those who are having it - in a forum labeled for that purpose?

    I think its more than reasonable to expect the members of this board to be adults about the conversations.

    Jagr, no issues with you - do as you will, but don't bend over backwards to keep trouble makers either. If you want to revamp some forum subs, or add some new areas so people have boundaries, go for it, but at the same time, don't sacrifice cohesion to try to be overly amenable either.

    I've probably said more than I should - dunno - but well, that's that.

    D
    Last edited by Demosthenes; July 27, 2015 at 5:24 PM.


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