View Poll Results: How do you Identify?

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  • Bachelor

    25 27.17%
  • Neutral

    31 33.70%
  • Ghost

    36 39.13%
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  1. #1
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Exclamation Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    UPDATE: Select your type here. We'd like everyone to do this by Aug 10.


    --------
    As we've moderated GYOW, we've noticed something about the site. While we all call ourselves MGTOW, we mean different things by it. That's fine; viva la difference. However, as a community it often means butting heads as we have different worldviews. As such, people who are in the "minority" may stay silent on some topics for fear that the others don't share the view. While it makes sense we are all MGTOWs, it may make more sense to create separate sub-groups within the site so that people can effectively communicate and collaborate with those that get them.


    I am of the belief there are three major groups- Bachelors, Neutrals, and Ghosts. They all have different life philosophies. Though they are all MGTOW, they generally don't buy into the hype of marriage, they are red pill, they live for themselves, they go about life differently. They value different things. Sometimes you think its good to have differences but the life philosophies are too different; often this results in pointless contention.

    Having separate sub-communities would allow for cross-pollination, especially in areas we overlap. But each group might also be happier on their own. Each group is not 100% distinct; it is an overlapping venn diagram, but more dissimilar than similar at least in life strategies.


    Here are the groups:




    Bachelors (MGTOW)- Focus on self-improvement, socializing. Open to dating, open to taking action (see action subforum). Male fraternity. Red pill (about women) is just one subcategory. Outlook is optimistic.


    Neutrals (MGTOW) - More about contentment, risk-mitigation. Discussing Red Pill is primary topic: attitudes of women, female behavior, how relationships/marriages can sour. The impact of feminism in the workplace, in life in general. Generally not interested in dating, or taking action (ie: MRA).

    Ghosts (MGTOW)- a fulfilling life on their own. De-prioritize socializing. Strategies for living life on their own in a rewarding way.



    Based on my observation, I have a breakdown in my mind of how members fit into these different groups. You'll notice that there are subdivisions even within the above groups. You may have some tendencies towards one AND the other. However, on further reflection, you might see that you mainly fall into one camp. The other communities would be a few clicks away so you could dabble in one as you mainly interact in the other.

    Please respond to the poll. Also post where you think you would fit and why. If you have something to add about these breakdowns, let us know.
    Last edited by jagrmeister; July 28, 2015 at 7:03 PM.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).
    *If you're on Twitter, follow me: MGTOW_Jagr

  2. #2
    Senior Member KingofWisdom's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I guess I would be a neutral. I am not completely against the idea of "dating", but I don't see the point in having a LTR if marriage is off the table. A FWB deal could be rewarding, but I view any effort put into getting sex as wasted effort. I don't hate women, I actually like some of my female coworkers; but I don't trust them. I do seek betterment, I've started reading (all though admittedly it's hard for me to pull myself away from the computer to open a book), I've lost 50 pounds since last year (and hoping to lose another 40-50), and maybe at some point I'll try to build muscle. But I'd be perfectly happy if I looked slim. I don't generally like people, though, and I don't really care what anyone thinks of me in social situations. So I can see myself somewhat being in the ghost category as well.
    I say fuck authority, silent majority. Raised by the system, now it's time to rise against them.
    We're sick of your treason, sick of your lies. Fuck no, we won't listen. We're gonna open your eyes.

  3. #3
    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Neutral for me Jagr. I'm very agnostic about the whole thing - my positioning is down to personal preference, not because I think it is objectively the best approach.

    I agree it is definitely a spectrum, and I could see myself drifting towards bachelor and back again depending on circumstance.

    I think the idea of a soft division probably is a good one. Far from stoking conflict, I think it would underline that each approach has its own validity.
    I work in financial planning. I am interested in metal (all kinds), miniature painting and PC gaming. I live in Scotland.

  4. #4
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    "Ghost" was my choice mainly for reasons under discussion elsewhere, and because I do indeed put living to achieve my own rewards above socializing and "living for the approval of others." I would like to think, though, that my posts and threads on this board tend to show that I don't fit the "decline-focused," curmudgeonly profile that seems to be implied for that group.

    It will be interesting to see how this three-group approach to the forum shakes out. I hope it will improve things for those "minority-opinion" members, and give them a more comfortable space for sharing their ideas.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  5. #5
    Senior Member FapMaster's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Definitely ghost, although not so much the declining world part. Affirmative on the dim view of my fellow (wo)man, though.
    No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree. -W. C. Fields
    The courts have no compunction towards fairness these days, and the women who push their agendas, no conscience. -My own self
    My Intro

  6. #6
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by BeijaFlor View Post
    "Ghost" was my choice mainly for reasons under discussion elsewhere, and because I do indeed put living to achieve my own rewards above socializing and "living for the approval of others." I would like to think, though, that my posts and threads on this board tend to show that I don't fit the "decline-focused," curmudgeonly profile that seems to be implied for that group.
    Fair enough. These categories are somewhat flexible. Both Bachelor and Ghost- are described in fairly extreme terms, and members may not subscribe entirely to whatever's described.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).
    *If you're on Twitter, follow me: MGTOW_Jagr

  7. #7

    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Honestly Jagr, MGTOW is the best label.

    I come here to look for news of gynocentrism that may effect me and if I can gain some insights and if I can have a laugh with other MGTOW while doing it; all the better.
    "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are the ones who have gone over." Hunter S Thompson

  8. #8
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Newtons3rdLaw View Post
    Honestly Jagr, MGTOW is the best label.

    I come here to look for news of gynocentrism that may effect me and if I can gain some insights and if I can have a laugh with other MGTOW while doing it; all the better.
    The label for all three will be MGTOW. The forum and spirit will be MGTOW in each case. This is to define the communities within MGTOW.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).
    *If you're on Twitter, follow me: MGTOW_Jagr

  9. #9
    Senior Member flailer's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I respect the topic.
    I respect thought & reasoning that went into the 3 categories.
    I respect the process that people will go through to answer the poll.

    BUT, at any given time I am in one or more of each category. So I will not answer the poll.

    I agree that the term MGTOW is difficult to define (and we all know why) and that in fact it makes unity so much less likely. BUT, there is NOTHING wrong with that. Afterall: I am MGTOW, fuk unity.

    In fact one can make a case for this difference being a strength. The lack of segregation (3 categories) means that differing people are exchanging ideas, and bashing around a point(s) of discussion.

    The problem with this is that the same issue often gets addressed again and again and again. This is sometimes good, as growth (maturity of the idea) can occur. When it is deja vu that is ok. When it turns boring, or frustrating, it is time to let someone else deal with it.

    Besides, I, personally, don't want an echo chamber.

    But, who am i?
    If misery loves company; Happiness requires Bachelorhood

    p.s. i resent being a "senior member" - I'm not that old, or am I?

  10. #10
    Senior Member flailer's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Jagrmeister,
    What if you asked everyone to pick a category, and it was applied to their profile? That way when a "discussion breaks out" - lol - everyone can look at that person's profile (and shake their head saying "well, that explains it" ; or alternatively ; nod their head saying "yes, from that point of view, I can see 80% of that reasoning ")

    lol - and here I can't even answer the question, and I'm putting forth the idea that everyone answer it. pretty goofy, eh?
    If misery loves company; Happiness requires Bachelorhood

    p.s. i resent being a "senior member" - I'm not that old, or am I?

  11. #11

    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Ghosting for me, Jag. Why? I too see the world as being in a state of decline in many ways. Also, I de-prioritize socializing and have a dim view of people in general. However I am open to dating (for about two months at a time and then I take a break) and focusing on hobbies as was mentioned in the Bachelors category, but overall...Ghosting.





  12. #12
    Senior Member John Deer's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    I'm digging the forum the way it is. We could always divide the sub groups into weight classes or shortest to tallest.

  13. #13
    Senior Member YourTipOfTheDay's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by flailer View Post
    I respect the topic.
    I respect the opinions you shared in your post flailer and I also respect and understand jagr's reasons for doing this. So I'm torn on the issue since I agree with you both.

    I honestly don't know where I would fit. I know mentally, I would be somewhere between neutral and bachelor, but physically (how I actually live day to day most of the time) would be ghost. I like being alone and spend 99% of my time alone, and have little to no interest in socializing with people in general. This will change once I go to school since I'll be forced to be around people but this is how it's been for the past 9 or so months.

    Okay after thinking about it a little more I am probably 90% ghost and 10% bachelor. The bachelor parts is I'm open to dating but not often, only sometimes.. If I feel like it. And I am always self improving whether that's physically through working out, meditation, stretching, eating well or mentally through reading political history, philosophy, sociology etc, or emotionally by having a solid support system, keeping my emotions in check by having time to spend with others and time to be alone and reflect on my past, present and future decisions on whatever. Other than that, I'm ghost. I'm pretty pessimistic about the future of society, tbh.

  14. #14
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Quote Originally Posted by John Deer View Post
    I'm digging the forum the way it is. We could always divide the sub groups into weight classes or shortest to tallest.
    I'm a bit nervous about this proposal myself, Deer John*, but in a way, your comment makes the argument for it.

    You might not notice it, but the mod team is aware of an ever-increasing trend of negativity, of the "Let-it-burn" mentality. There's a tendency to see the future as bleak, to "take a dim view of (our) fellow man," and to disparage others' efforts to cast for positive answers to the future. That's not true of all of us, maybe not even of most of us - but consider this truism from the "Murphy's Law" books of the early Eighties:

    Add a spoonful of wine to a barrel of sewage - you've got sewage.
    Add a spoonful of sewage to a barrel of wine - you've got sewage.

    Add a snarky, dismissive post to a serious, answer-seeking thread, and you cheapen the answer-seeking process. Add negative comments to a positive thread - or a positive forum - and it's like crabs-in-a-basket; he who tries to rise above the negativity gets dragged back in. And he goes from "Hey, what if -" to getting snark-shot, and in some cases I know personally, to bailing out of the forum entirely. We lost a Moderator to that, here, not too long ago ... we lost MGTOW Forums to that, in February 2014, when its proprietor said "E-FUCKING-NOUGH!" and pulled the plug.

    I'd like to avoid a similar fate for this board. I'd like to keep it built up as a go-to place for ideas and guidance on "Living The Good MGTOW Life." And maybe, just maybe, this idea of "separate camps" for the different temperaments of MGTOW will help that continue. It certainly looks better than the alternatives.

    (* A "Dear John" letter, in the US military from WWII forward, is a message from the soldier's significant-other telling him that the love-affair is over. Pardon me for not choosing to resist the snarky reference.)
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  15. #15
    Senior Member flailer's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    agreed, it is an important topic!!

    - Long time ago there was only two groups of people: Blue Pill; Red Pill
    - Then there was some maturity: Blue Pill; Burgundy Pill; Red Pill
    (we also had some name calling: haters; simps; mangina; whiteknights, just to name a few)
    - Now we have this growth (tip of the hat to Jag)

    I would say that we had this growth specifically because of the discussions. Wouldn't we get that growth if people didnt self identify? I'd guess we would, but would it have the same impact?

    Thus Jag is correct to not only bring it up, but to ask people to self-select. RESPECT.
    If misery loves company; Happiness requires Bachelorhood

    p.s. i resent being a "senior member" - I'm not that old, or am I?

  16. #16
    Senior Member flailer's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Kindly correct me where I am wrong, or be mean about it ~

    The function of this idea is self-growth of the user...
    There is no growth without learning...
    There is little SELF growth without involvement....

    There are some VERY talented people here, so, rather than just turning the psychological profiling on women (ref: The Female Psychosis, by Kyojiro Kagenuma ) ;

    So, can we not build a MGTOW trials, Tribulations, & Break-through series as a primer to newbies (and for me to re-digest as needed)?
    If misery loves company; Happiness requires Bachelorhood

    p.s. i resent being a "senior member" - I'm not that old, or am I?

  17. #17
    Moderator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Aw shucks, your poll didn't have a selection for "Fluid and Ever-changing" or, as I like to tell people, I elude definition. I learned years ago, it's harder to hit a moving target.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  18. #18
    Senior Member KingofWisdom's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Maybe I am more "Ghost" than I thought. I definitely can relate to the "Watch it burn and crumble" attitude we see in certain MGTOW. The system won't change until feminism creates so much debt that the system collapses. Men and women go along with anything that is perceived to help women, no matter how harmful the laws and such truly are.
    I say fuck authority, silent majority. Raised by the system, now it's time to rise against them.
    We're sick of your treason, sick of your lies. Fuck no, we won't listen. We're gonna open your eyes.

  19. #19
    Senior Member YourTipOfTheDay's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Also I want to add that if this change does indeed happen, I'll probably be posting the most in the Bachelor's section. Dating women and/or self improvement is what I know about the most so naturally I'll engage in discussions on things I know.

    The other sections (like a lot of the more sophisticated threads around the forum) I just read but I don't partake because I have nothing intelligent to say or add to the discussion. So I doubt I'd be posting in the Ghost or Neutral section much at all.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
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    Re: Suggested MAJOR Change to GYOW- Please Read

    Can't really decide between bachelor and neutral. Not interested in MRA stuff - I only like talking about red pill things in real life on an individual basis, and anonymous online. Only interested in dating in terms of FWB - nothing even remotely long term. I'm interested in the most minor form of socializing - aka a couple close friends. I might have to go with bachelor purely because of the optimism/self-improvement aspect. I'm cynical about the system but I'm optimistic about the future for men. I'd say currently the majority of my posts fit into the "neutral" category though.

    Might just see who's voting in each category and use that to figure it out.


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