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  1. #1
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Never Submit to a Woman

    Some people think of blue pill as a set of ideas, but they're actually a sophisticated form of social conditioning. Conditioning is hypnosis; it rewires the brain. It produces automatic behavior. When we're conditioned in a way to be subservient, it explains the anger of becoming red pill. What demented society would rewire the minds of men to defer to women and thrill to be their toadies! If it's any consolation, this has been going on a while; what's different is that female worship is not accompanied any longer by the shaping of female behavior to be decent and desirable to men (traditionalism). So we're worshipping what turns out to be a flaming turd. This is why I oppose feminism, believe feminism's primary form of impact is carried out through television brainwashing (not radfem diatribes), and why I believe feminism is far more sinister than the general population believes. If feminism were ideas alone, it would rot; but it serves the purpose of cultural marxism, and its adversarialism is amplified by others, who enhance the social conditioning of men to genuflect before women, in their sublime and pristine "beauty", inside and out. That they are more worthy than us; that a key part of our reason for being is to serve them (this is what Sheryl Sandberg's "Lean In" campaigns with corporations are about).

    This subservience is enhanced by three factors: Male lust (porn, Maxim, sex everywhere), supposed female nobility (fairytales, television, feminist campaigns; ie: "women are more 'peaceful' than men"), and female victim status (ie: trafficking, domestic violence; while whitewashing abortion, female psychological violence, etc.). From this you can see where the white knight mental 'program' has been constructed in men. Feminist conditioning instills blue pill/white knight in 80%'er males (as evidenced by the fact it's the 80%'er who has the WK sexual strategy on television/movies) through classical conditioning, we are shown the 80%'er male can successfully get the girl in romcoms from the 20%'er male through blue pill toadying, and it's no wonder so many men think it'll work; in truth it 'works' in terms of getting them to commit for life (and PROVIDE) to a substandard woman, for reasons unknown to their conscious mind. All the man knowns is he's "happy!" (for a short while until reality contradicts the carefully warped implanted life script)

    (MGTOW is the deprogramming of this conditioning, which is why feminists and the controlled media seek to discredit us. Earlier I was stumped why no man or woman could answer my question what are women good for in a relationship, but now I realize why men can't answer me; they themselves don't know, they just know they "need" women.)

    Back to the main point: the fact that it's conditioning means that awareness is helpful but the old neural connections are still there; it is programming that is lodged deeply. There may be times still where you are tempted to please a woman, even defer to her. You will get a momentary thrill from it before perhaps realizing what is going on. I will admit, it angers me still that on occasion, this old programming comes back. That those in charge have created a rewards cycle pathway in people's minds towards pleasing women. Here is where I entirely object with the idea that 'attraction is non-negotiable" or that human preferences are set in stone. Neural plasticity is a scientific fact and it shows that our very attraction to things, to people; our desires, our motivations are programmable. Of course, this is known at high levels. (It is known in low levels of advertising as well.) We have been programmed to submit. Even though on a conscious level, we know that women prefer men to be strong, to lead; even important women we may work for, every woman; it is possible to slip back into old ways because for years our minds had no firewall.

    Some may object, but sometimes purple programming helps root out blue pill programming. When a thought comes of looking forward to defer to a woman in conversation comes to mind, remember "She won't like this". I know this sounds hokey, because the better thought is "What would I want?". But sometimes a purple pill thought can be a good bridge from momentary relapse of blue pill back to safe shores, and then firmly to red pill camp. Purple pill inner thoughts can sometimes be helpful; in this case, acknowledging that insofar as some mental vestige wants to supplicate to women, recalling that even she would be repulsed by it should be enough to assume the dominant or at least a confident posture. From there, the red pill thoughts should be easily accessible again.
    Last edited by jagrmeister; April 15, 2015 at 7:19 PM.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).
    *If you're on Twitter, follow me: MGTOW_Jagr

  2. #2

    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Early on, I used to think of dating as a way to meet women and find one you are compatible with. It makes sense to find someone that you share similar contexts with and like to do the same things. In this way, dating was exciting to me.

    What I discovered was that women only wanted to dictate terms. Hence, I stopped dating. Can you imagine if, as a man, I went about it like that? What if I wanted to dictate terms to women and find one that submitted to them? However, this is what women do today.

    Women believe they are the primary sex. As soon as I reveal that I am a someone in control of my own destiny and will do things my way, they go nuts. I'm not telling them how to live their lives, yet they insist on dictating how my life should be lived.

    I think the rub of it is that they believe all of men's actions should be in pleasing other females... somehow. Any male actions that do not bring pleasure or purpose to females is automatically suspected of being a waste of time. This is why playing video games is always a 'waste of time'. Reading quality books is also a 'waste of time'. However, being a PUA is not a 'waste of time' since that is pleasing to some women. Talking about how to woo women is not a waste of time as that pleases women. The family man putting in long hours is not a waste of time because he is 'providing for wife and children' (i.e. the wife and her house).

    MGTOW is an affirmation that men, too, have the Right to Pursue Happiness. Whose happiness? Their own! Oh, what a radical concept!

    To the lurker, the idea of women denying men life and liberty may not seem evident. But it is clear that they wage war on anything that makes men alone happy. Show me something that men receive pleasure from that doesn't involve women, and you will find women protesting it.

    It's as if women want to deny any competing sources of pleasure to men.

  3. #3

    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    I've also noticed a pattern. It goes like this:

    Girl makes obvious IOIs.

    Macivity asks out girl.

    Girl acts 'shocked' and tries to put Macavity at arm's length. (Keep in mind that I am in my mid 30s, and these girls are almost half my age! hahahaha)

    They keep wanting to interact with me. I find it very hard to get women to say no. I actually want them to say no so I can have closure and shut down their IOIs.

    I point out why I think they like me because of X, Y, Z thing they did. The result is always the same: like a switch, they become furious and immediately demand that I never, ever contact them again. This reaction is very strange to me. I still haven't figured it out. All I know is that I'm not following their script, and they go bonkers.

    Just like a woman will never say no (no is final, and they can't take it back), women will not ever allow the premise to exist that she likes you. Why are you stripping in front of me? "Oh, I don't know. I don't remember what I was doing. LOL." When a woman cannot deny what they were doing, then I get the fury and the 'never contact me again!' insane reaction. I suspect it is because by getting her to say she likes you is her submitting to you.

    I've noticed women also go insane when I bring up another women.

    Macavity: "Hey, let's go out. Blah blah blah."

    Girl: "I'm so sorry, but blah blah blah. I hope you understand."

    Macavity: "It's cool. You should know that I won't be in the area much longer, so blah blah blah."

    Girl: Keeps talking as if I am very upset that she won't go out with me. But I'm not. I'm chill. It is driving her nuts. She eventually says, "I am just trying to be nice!"

    Macavity: "It's all cool. The reason why I was busy earlier was because I was taking out this other girl blah blah blah..."

    Girl: *goes batshit insane*

    If a girl wasn't interested in me, why is she getting upset that I found someone else? I don't get upset when women I am not interested in find someone else. I think she goes crazy because I am not submitting to her from a position of weakness but rather of authority. I am acting like I am the prize to be won, not her, and she can't take it. In the West, I think many young women have never met a man that doesn't submit.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Malinois's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    This topic is getting to the core of it...

    The conditioning, brainwashing, and all of the modern pressures to keep the men in line...

    I was visiting local businesses around the area last week, for work. There are many smaller independent businesses that all revolve around one major one. Most of the HR and upper-middle-management positions are filled by black women. I've talked to some of them before and have interacted with all of them at one time or another at one point in the past. They are all entitled, loudmouth, large-sized, bossy women that talk down to men and from what I've seen, white people.
    I'm not a racist, I'm a realist. What one person does, does not reflect on all other people with the same skin color. That's common sense. But, all of these women acted the same...And, I wonder, are they put into these positions, not because of their qualifications, but because there is an agenda for control?

    I don't know about you but, I don't know many people that can win an argument with a large, bossy, attitudy, black woman...I sure as hell wont risk it for two obvious reasons: sexism and racism accusations...

    I have however tested a couple of them by talking trash right back at em. My personal observation: They DO NOT like that...I am supposed to talk to them as if they are my superior. Thing is, I don't give a fuck who they think they are, they don't sign my paychecks! So, I'm met with contempt...

    Not trying to lump all of these lovely ladies into the same category, really. One of them has actually begun to come down to earth...We crack jokes with each other no after one day she got in my face for no reason, thinking I was her employee, and I back talked her...

    But, I guess where I'm going with this is, I'm noticing black women holding high positions for simply being black and being a woman. And, the reason I think it's spreading is because who would dare tell a black female boss that she is wrong?

    I'm pale skinned but, I think Chris Rock knows what I'm getting at...

    I was taught to pussy-foot around racial and sex equality...Why?

  5. #5
    Member juicemoney's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    3rd wave feminism combined with the progressive left PC brigade have created an environment that breeds cultural marxism.

    People shrug off the term as a right wing conspiracy theory but deconstructionist post graduate nonsense followed the Frankfurt School as it moved to the West.

    Critical theory is used to disseminate and demonize those who disagree with the PC hugbox.

    This is social engineering on a mass scale in varied forms of media, academia and politics and it can result in self censorship.

    From Wikipedia:
    Kyriarchy is a social system or set of connecting social systems built around domination, oppression, and submission. The word is a neologism coined by Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza in 1992 to describe her theory of interconnected, interacting, and self-extending systems of domination and submission, in which a single individual might be oppressed in some relationships and privileged in others.[1] It is an intersectional extension of the idea of patriarchy[1] beyond gender. Kyriarchy encompasses sexism, racism, homophobia, economic injustice, and other forms of dominating hierarchies in which the subordination of one person or group to another is internalized and institutionalized.[
    Scary shit.

  6. #6

    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Thanks Jagrmeister for this piece. It is great. I want to read it multiple times so the points you make can sink in.
    This section I found particularly eye-opening (red-pill moment) regarding male subservience to women:
    "This subservience is enhanced by three factors: Male lust (porn, Maxim, sex everywhere), supposed female nobility (fairytales, television, feminist campaigns; ie: "women are more 'peaceful' than men"), and female victim status (ie: trafficking, domestic violence; while whitewashing abortion, female psychological violence, etc.).
    I think it is critically important for men to become aware of all the ways in which they are conditioned, programmed and manipulated, especially because this perspective is nearly non-existent in mainstream media.
    --Twitter: @EqualityMen

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ace Francis's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Quote Originally Posted by juicemoney
    People shrug off the term as a right wing conspiracy theory but deconstructionist post graduate nonsense followed the Frankfurt School as it moved to the West.
    Exactly. The Frankfurt School is where ass backwards world comes from. Where immigration politices for example are encouraged for generations now. That international banking pyramid scheme called the Federal Reserve you can even say is tied into that. And like you say, there is the "tinfoil hat boy" lable to shush any critical thought about it. Yet there it is out in plain site.
    Last edited by Ace Francis; April 12, 2015 at 1:55 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member toolate's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    The theme is important to consider; systemic infection, parasitic draining of the host = cancer.

    My first "lightbulb" moment as a beta raised person was when I saw an ad for Girls Gone Wild. I had always assumed that women that carried on that way were from the wrong side of the tracks. That was my beta upbringing at work.

    Yet, having seen enough in life, my wife, oldest daughter, and women in the service that it was ALWALT.

    Back to the theme of this chapter of the book of jagr. We face a cancer of feminism and Marxism so intertwined with society (the patient) that any surgery would kill the patient. So then, what is the cure?

    Radical surgery out. Radiation treatment? Kills too many good cells. Same with chemotherapy tends to kill the patient (society) though weakening.

    The only course is to starve the cancer itself. How do we do it? It is already happening. MGTOW, the marriage strike, pump and dump, etc. It is a normal immune response to a sick society drained of vitality by ALWALT unchecked.

    People think there is a permanent cure. There is not. The human body, or the body of society is always under attack from outside and from within. It requires a constant vigilance. Generations of men before have sacrificed their futures to fend off foreign invaders. This cancer in society will require a similar sacrifice of a generation or two*. In either example, it is the men that will sacrifice their futures.

    Then again, maybe MGTOW is a form of chemo?

    * I would propose that this has already occurred. I may have been raised by TRADCONS, but my adult life was ruled by the 2nd wave of feminism. This beget a generation of men raised by divorced/single mothers to be handed over to 3rd wave feminist domination of all aspects of society. I was in denial until age 40, this generation has been soaking in it since birth.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Jagr, I believe this belongs in MGTOW 101. Not only that - I'd like to use it as an "Honored Guest" post, in my blog.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  10. #10
    Senior Member Isaiah4:1's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Awesome post.
    I think I've gotten nearly all of it out of my system to be honest. I never valued women at any time anyway which is why I never pursued them. From a young age I knew there was something wrong with guys, who bring everything to the table, crawling on their hands and knees for a shot at being an organ grinder's monkey for such a useless creature. Now that I've taken in some detailed information on their nature, there's nothing at this point that will move me to view women as anything other than a nuisance and relationships with them as a form of self-mutilation.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Mr. Fenrir's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Quote Originally Posted by toolate View Post
    The theme is important to consider; systemic infection, parasitic draining of the host = cancer.

    My first "lightbulb" moment as a beta raised person was when I saw an ad for Girls Gone Wild. I had always assumed that women that carried on that way were from the wrong side of the tracks. That was my beta upbringing at work.

    Yet, having seen enough in life, my wife, oldest daughter, and women in the service that it was ALWALT.

    Back to the theme of this chapter of the book of jagr. We face a cancer of feminism and Marxism so intertwined with society (the patient) that any surgery would kill the patient. So then, what is the cure?

    Radical surgery out. Radiation treatment? Kills too many good cells. Same with chemotherapy tends to kill the patient (society) though weakening.

    The only course is to starve the cancer itself. How do we do it? It is already happening. MGTOW, the marriage strike, pump and dump, etc. It is a normal immune response to a sick society drained of vitality by ALWALT unchecked.

    People think there is a permanent cure. There is not. The human body, or the body of society is always under attack from outside and from within. It requires a constant vigilance. Generations of men before have sacrificed their futures to fend off foreign invaders. This cancer in society will require a similar sacrifice of a generation or two*. In either example, it is the men that will sacrifice their futures.

    Then again, maybe MGTOW is a form of chemo?

    * I would propose that this has already occurred. I may have been raised by TRADCONS, but my adult life was ruled by the 2nd wave of feminism. This beget a generation of men raised by divorced/single mothers to be handed over to 3rd wave feminist domination of all aspects of society. I was in denial until age 40, this generation has been soaking in it since birth.
    The situation of today reminds me of a poem, Dániel Berzsenyi: To the hungarians, especially this part:

    "But now - you're gnawed by venomous, stealthy death.Behold: the oak that proudly withstands the storm
    that cannot break it from the North, but
    vermin can chew up its mighty root-wor

    and then it's felled by only a flimsy breeze!
    That's why the firm foundation of every land
    must be morality untarnished
    which, if destroyed, Rome will fall and founder,"

    I wouldn't say MGTOW to be a form of chemo, it's more of a survival mechanism. If it was chemo then going back to the plantation later would be an option (as cells later reproduce), we however have chosen to lead our own lives the way we want to. Plus feminism has put a wedge between men and women for a long time. Women have shown what happens if being given absolute power.

  12. #12

    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Quote Originally Posted by Macavity View Post
    I've also noticed a pattern. It goes like this:

    Girl makes obvious IOIs.

    Macivity asks out girl.

    Girl acts 'shocked' and tries to put Macavity at arm's length. (Keep in mind that I am in my mid 30s, and these girls are almost half my age! hahahaha)

    They keep wanting to interact with me. I find it very hard to get women to say no. I actually want them to say no so I can have closure and shut down their IOIs.

    I point out why I think they like me because of X, Y, Z thing they did. The result is always the same: like a switch, they become furious and immediately demand that I never, ever contact them again. This reaction is very strange to me. I still haven't figured it out. All I know is that I'm not following their script, and they go bonkers.

    Just like a woman will never say no (no is final, and they can't take it back), women will not ever allow the premise to exist that she likes you. Why are you stripping in front of me? "Oh, I don't know. I don't remember what I was doing. LOL." When a woman cannot deny what they were doing, then I get the fury and the 'never contact me again!' insane reaction. I suspect it is because by getting her to say she likes you is her submitting to you.

    I've noticed women also go insane when I bring up another women.

    Macavity: "Hey, let's go out. Blah blah blah."

    Girl: "I'm so sorry, but blah blah blah. I hope you understand."

    Macavity: "It's cool. You should know that I won't be in the area much longer, so blah blah blah."

    Girl: Keeps talking as if I am very upset that she won't go out with me. But I'm not. I'm chill. It is driving her nuts. She eventually says, "I am just trying to be nice!"

    Macavity: "It's all cool. The reason why I was busy earlier was because I was taking out this other girl blah blah blah..."

    Girl: *goes batshit insane*

    If a girl wasn't interested in me, why is she getting upset that I found someone else? I don't get upset when women I am not interested in find someone else. I think she goes crazy because I am not submitting to her from a position of weakness but rather of authority. I am acting like I am the prize to be won, not her, and she can't take it. In the West, I think many young women have never met a man that doesn't submit.

    She was playing hard to get and then projected it onto you when she perceived that you was at the same game.

  13. #13

    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Great post, first off.

    A big, big part of deprogramming are those little mental stop signs that pop up, as you said, "She won't like this," or "How should I act here?" or "Should I not say that?" or "Will she interpret this wrong?"

    This stuff is so powerful, so ingrained in us, that even subtle little interactions on Facebook with someone you're "potentially" talking to or interested in become a minefield of "dos" and "donts" and you altering your behavior.

    You altering your behavior for a woman.

    If I sat and honestly analyzed how much I do that in a single day, it would be staggering. Lots of subtle things. Subtle decisions, adjustments, as to what I say, how I move, how I act. It's something the male mind is keenly aware of. Even if I'm drunk and there's a mildly attractive female within an earshot, my mind is twirling away at how I'm presenting myself to her. Am I doing it the way I think she wants me to?

    Scary stuff. I hate my mind sometimes.

  14. #14
    Member juicemoney's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Quote Originally Posted by toolate View Post
    This beget a generation of men raised by divorced/single mothers to be handed over to 3rd wave feminist domination of all aspects of society. I was in denial until age 40, this generation has been soaking in it since birth.
    The one positive factor on our side is the internet. Like Gutenberg's Printing Press, the internet has the potential to enable the free flow of knowledge.

    I always thought the majority of post-secondary students should get a library card instead of a degree. Now the world's biggest ever expanding library is in your pocket if you aren't to busy feeding a narcissistic supply with social networking.

    I feel grateful I have learned so much in my 20s. I am also happy that anyone can figure this shit out. We all have finite time on this earth and knowledge is power.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
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    Re: Never Submit to a Woman

    Quote Originally Posted by pissedoff33yearold View Post
    Even if I'm drunk and there's a mildly attractive female within an earshot, my mind is twirling away at how I'm presenting myself to her. Am I doing it the way I think she wants me to?

    Scary stuff. I hate my mind sometimes.
    Yep this is the root problem that I still have yet to kill. I can understand all this stuff on a fully conscious level, but then sometimes it just goes out the window. It's been happening less and less over the last couple years, but it's still there.
    Nuggets = chicken nuggets. First thing that popped into my head when I signed up.


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