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  1. #1
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    Material possessions and their worth

    Does anyone else feel like material possessions that advertising has us chasing on a daily basis has any true worth? From a survival point of view?

    In a world of mass marketing where you cannot walk one minute down the street without being exposed to product advertisement, subliminal messaging on television, celebrity influence and media we are constantly being told what we need to further enhance our lives. We see a celebrity wearing a new designer jacket and now we decide we want one that is similar or indirectly influenced by in real life or in movies. Lets face it maybe some of us before would buy this jacket because we thought it would make us look good for the women.

    Society has structured a manual for life where you get married, have kids and then die. Everything is geared towards sex and relationships. To start a group of cult-like thinking first you prime the fear and then provide the solution. Men if you do not buy this product on how to get laid you will be forever sterile. If you do not buy this designer jacket you won't have a woman that looks like her who was standing next to the man in the advertisement.

    We live in a society which seeks to keep us oppressed into the consumer mentality. Buy a new jacket until the self esteem wears off and then the process repeats until you have a wardrobe full of clothes you no longer wear. A shelf full of cologne with a arrangement of different scents we use to make ourselves smell good for the women.
    Advertising is using symbolic imagery of sex to make you hard working earners pay for that £200 jacket which actually has no major difference than a £9 jacket but the logo that is printed on it. Wear a £200 jacket and your confidence will reach £200. Slowly it decreases where you need to buy another designer jacket just to full all new again.

    Whether you like it or not we are being influenced in subtle ways. Men at a young age are exposed to war toys and army video games which in my opinion are geared towards grooming the next generation of soldiers fighting for big businesses and advancement in oil production.
    We have women who are groomed to act like princesses and spoiled with baby toys and pram accessories which inevitably leads to a lifelong dream of becoming a mother and then not having to work. The government provide you with a house then inevitably settle down with a man who provides you with the materialistic life you desire. This is done by simply giving false promises of marriage and intimacy and a lifelong supply of loyalty that gradually burns out quicker than a tea light candle as soon as you get what you want.

    I overheard a bus conversation between two people and they were talking about two celebrities. I thought to myself - is your life so boring that you have to gossip over the gender identity of a particular celebrities baby? Does the gender of this child directly influence your life?

    I then realized that celebrities are marketed to be superior-versions of ourselves. Ever notice in game shows that celebrities are always scoring way above average scores compared to their average citizen counterparts? Same thing.
    It is why most of the latest fashion is influenced by them and run way models. People are deciding to wear not what they want to wear but what is in-fashion at that particular time. Celebrity magazines are constantly defining the norm for beauty. It is interesting but do a search on women in different eras. You will see subtle nuances in what is deemed beautiful by the media.

    I decided to give up on television, newspapers and designer clothing a while ago and knowing this I have saved even more money on unnecessary material possessions. The mobile phone I currently own was released in 2003. It has no camera phone and it does not connect to the internet. it texts and calls and this is all I need. My current laptop is 10 years old and as soon as it blows up - I will not be buying another - I do not think these materialistic influences and objects are needed by humanity in the survival sense of the word.

    Anyone else have something to add or share their views?

  2. #2
    Senior Member ATLien's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    I'd like to point out the feeling of entitlement that comes with overall economic prosperity.


    First World "Poor" is a luxurious life compared to Third World Poor.


    Rent ceilings. Minimum Wage. EBT, Section 8, and other wealth distribution programs ie welfare/social justice ...


    Somehow we've been brainwashed that more and more material possessions are now 'survival'.


    No child left behind without a cellphone.


    I don't remember any of the Waltons having a cellphone. How ever did they survive each day without one?
    My opinions are not necessarily my opinions.

  3. #3
    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    I'm always banging this drum.

    The more you have, the more you have to look after. A lot of possessions does nothing but weigh you down.
    I decided to give up on television, newspapers and designer clothing a while ago and knowing this I have saved even more money on unnecessary material possessions.
    Me too. But I still like my technology. If you use it properly, you can reduce the number of possessions that you have. Once upon a time I had a nice watch, alarm clock, camera and had to go to a computer to send an email. My phone is expensive and consumerist, yes, but it has allowed me to reduce my possessions all the same.

    Advertising is using symbolic imagery of sex to make you hard working earners pay for that £200 jacket which actually has no major difference than a £9 jacket but the logo that is printed on it.
    Your point is valid, but labels aren't the only thing you pay for. A £250 suit with super 130 wool is much better than a cheaper, wool blend alternative. Once bought, it is worth spending another £50 on tailoring to make sure it looks good. Labels aren't the only thing money can be spent on. It is better to buy 3 good suits, than 5 poor ones. This goes double for shoes. A £100 pair is cheaper than a £50 pair in the long run.

    First World "Poor" is a luxurious life compared to Third World Poor.


    Rent ceilings. Minimum Wage. EBT, Section 8, and other wealth distribution programs ie welfare/social justice ...
    If we don't redefine poverty in relative terms, then you will end up with the extinction of the political Left. If all we care about is eradicating absolute poverty, then all the rhetoric about the 1% (they called them the 10% in the 80's btw, interesting to see the escalation) is pretty empty.
    I work in financial planning. I am interested in metal (all kinds), miniature painting and PC gaming. I live in Scotland.

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    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    On reflection, the "buy more expensive and it is cheaper in the long run" , is probably one of the factors that separates the wealthy from the less wealthy. Poorer people end up paying more for the same thing.

    There is always the option of saving for things, but credit is so easily available and when you add interest into the equation, the effect is even worse. People who pay in cash get better deals. If I see a sofa on 0% credit, I always ask them what discount I'll get for cash.

    I then realized that celebrities are marketed to be superior-versions of ourselves. Ever notice in game shows that celebrities are always scoring way above average scores compared to their average citizen counterparts? Same thing.
    It is why most of the latest fashion is influenced by them and run way models.
    In the middle ages, it was royalty and the cult of the saints. In my view, we are heading back in that direction.
    I work in financial planning. I am interested in metal (all kinds), miniature painting and PC gaming. I live in Scotland.

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    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, you are surviving. Holding down a job, exchanging the money for food and shelter - this is one particular way of going about surviving. Sure, you would be screwed if you fell out of an aircraft wound up on the African plains without your cellphone; but then again: the average bushman wouldn't do so well if you dropped him in the middle of a city.

    Survival is never a given. Especially not for men - the legions of the homeless testify to that.

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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Covenant View Post
    I'm always banging this drum.

    Your point is valid, but labels aren't the only thing you pay for. A £250 suit with super 130 wool is much better than a cheaper, wool blend alternative. Once bought, it is worth spending another £50 on tailoring to make sure it looks good. Labels aren't the only thing money can be spent on. It is better to buy 3 good suits, than 5 poor ones. This goes double for shoes. A £100 pair is cheaper than a £50 pair in the long run.
    Here is my perspective: Cotton is cotton no matter how much extra artistic blending goes into it. The cheapest cotton in terms of keeping you warmer and comfortable and the more expensive you will find there is not much difference - except maybe the more expensive cotton may burn on a log fire that bit longer... I bet if someone blindfolded you and had you put on expensive clothing over average you would not notice the difference.

    Then we add on £50 for tailoring to make sure it looks good. You know back in the caveman days we aquired clothing because it kept us warm. Perhaps we skinned a lion or a sheep and was content. Nowadays we are so fussy and care too much what others think because we have to constantly wear something that 'looks good' because if it 'looks good' then it certainly 'feels good'

    It may not be cheaper in the long run... If I was to smash your Iphone on the floor or burn your suits they would be gone in an instant. That is £250 gone a lot faster than you could have purchased it. Then we have wear and tear and simply outgrowing or undergrowing your garments and changes in tastes.

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    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Here is my perspective: Cotton is cotton no matter how much extra artistic blending goes into it. The cheapest cotton in terms of keeping you warmer and comfortable and the more expensive you will find there is not much difference - except maybe the more expensive cotton may burn on a log fire that bit longer... I bet if someone blindfolded you and had you put on expensive clothing over average you would not notice the difference.
    Yes but that doesn't apply to wool. The 110, 120 or 130 rating tells you how much it has been spun. The higher the rating, the lighter and more durable it is. A "wool blend" suit contains a mix of polyester and wool. That means you can't iron the trousers as easily and it goes shiny much faster. The things I have described have nothing to do with art or style, they are all about function, and quality. Things that are always worth paying for.

    Then we add on £50 for tailoring to make sure it looks good. You know back in the caveman days we aquired clothing because it kept us warm. Perhaps we skinned a lion or a sheep and was content. Nowadays we are so fussy and care too much what others think because we have to constantly wear something that 'looks good' because if it 'looks good' then it certainly 'feels good'
    I should have said it is more comfy as well. If your trousers are an inch too big, your belt will pinch them and they will annoy you. Plus, spending a little money on tailoring is worth it because a well-tailored suit looks more expensive than a fancy one that isn't.

    It may not be cheaper in the long run... If I was to smash your Iphone on the floor or burn your suits they would be gone in an instant. That is £250 gone a lot faster than you could have purchased it.
    Do you reasonably expect to lose your possessions through criminal damage or negligence? I'm 30, and it hasn't happened to me yet. And there's also insurance you know.
    I work in financial planning. I am interested in metal (all kinds), miniature painting and PC gaming. I live in Scotland.

  8. #8

    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    I agree with most of what you said, however there is a big difference in the durability and comfort of SOME more expensive clothes. Don't pay for brand names, there are brands for which no premium is charged and the goods are of excellent quality.

    For example, there is a difference between very cheap, cheap, and higher priced cotton T-shirts.. assuming you aren't paying the brand name/fashion premium. Cheap goods tend to have fabric made of shorter fibers, which does not last as long. Higher quality cotton T-shirts can fit better, have fabric that lasts longer and color that stays nice and saturated. For the price difference of cheap T-shirts at Winners and more expensive, well-made shirts (wait for specials), the well-made goods are more cost efficient in long term.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    The point I got from Shogun Ronin's original post is that if you put too much of your time, attention and money into acquiring possessions, those possessions begin to own you. If you rely on them as your "identity," i.e. defining yourself by the expensive luxury-name latest-fashion clothing and toys and gear you own and wear, those possessions definitely own you.

    I own a sailboat, and in a way "it owns me." My reward for owning it, though, is the pleasure I get out of sailing, the proficiency I'm building toward cruising, and my progress towards the day when I may move aboard (aboard a bigger boat than this one) and Sail Beyond The Sunset. I say "may" because I may decide against making a boat my only home, but I'm planning to spend more time on the boat this season - a week or more at a time, rather than just a couple of nights - to make myself at home in the cruising life. I certainly define myself by it, as a sailor (or humorously, as a "yachtsman").

    Also noted, there is a difference between cheap stuff with an expensive logo, and high-quality things. Thomas Covenant is in finance, and part of his business-presence is his appearance; a well-made, well-tailored, perhaps even bespoke suit is as much a business tool for him as a smart-phone that can almost double as a miniature, on-the-go office. I doubt if he discards one of those suits because somebody in Paris or Milan decided men's lapels need to be wider or narrower this year.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

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    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Also noted, there is a difference between cheap stuff with an expensive logo, and high-quality things. Thomas Covenant is in finance, and part of his business-presence is his appearance; a well-made, well-tailored, perhaps even bespoke suit is as much a business tool for him as a smart-phone that can almost double as a miniature, on-the-go office. I doubt if he discards one of those suits because somebody in Paris or Milan decided men's lapels need to be wider or narrower this year.
    You put it much better than I could! My only tip is that bespoke is probably a bridge too far. Something off the peg with quick alterations will look just as good. I always have the same style of suit (the one I like the most) which is standard lapels, standard tie, two buttons, low collar and side vents.

    My main thrust in this thread is exactly what you said, you don't want your possessions to own you. But rather than going ascetic and discarding the lot, I reduce the number of them drastically but compensate by increasing the quality. That way I keep things under control and also get enjoyment from the small number of things I do own.
    I work in financial planning. I am interested in metal (all kinds), miniature painting and PC gaming. I live in Scotland.

  11. #11

    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    rent and bills aside obviously,I buy stuff I'm going to use and have fun with, I have a laptop because I use it for a bunch of things, It's a tool, same thing with my xbox 360, Theirs nothing wrong with having stuff if you are going to use it and feel rewarded even if it isn't the most productive hobby

    I do want to buy a station wagon within the next year, It really is the perfect car for me, I plan and intend on simply driving to new places and staying their over night, I can just sleep in the back of the car, It's perfect ! I can basically be a turtle and the cars my shell, That's how I see it ! It's going to be super awesome ! It's just convenient lets say I want to get a dog, It's going to be simple as to get them in the back and drive them to the beach ! I haven't got a car at the moment and I have no intention of getting a dog until I got a car and all that, I just think it's better for the dogs mental health

    When I was younger I had to look after my nans dog and that was awesome, she loved walking around the block, it was like her drug but I did feel bad I couldn't show her more of the world, Sure I got her down the beach a few times but if I got a dog i'd want to be doing it twice a week and walk her twice every other day, I hate people who don't treat their dogs like children, why even have a dog for ?

    I have neighbours that don't even walk their dogs it pisses me off ! She's such a nice looking dog too I would do something about it ( try and report it somehow) but I can't afford the drama right now, I hate people like that !!!! Why even have a dog if you don't want to spend time with it ?


    Last edited by mgtowcurious; February 2, 2015 at 12:38 AM.

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    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtowcurious View Post

    When I was younger I had to look after my nans dog and that was awesome, she loved walking around the block, it was like her drug but I did feel bad I couldn't show her more of the world, Sure I got her down the beach a few times but if I got a dog i'd want to be doing it twice a week and walk her twice every other day, I hate people who don't treat their dogs like children, why even have a dog for ?
    You do realize why you walk a dog, don't you? It's so that he/she shits outdoors, rather than in your living room. Twice a day, every day, is a minimum.

    ... No, that's flippant. But I've never had a dog, or any kind of pet (save for a carved wooden parrot hanging in the doorway to my computer nook). My last USA girlfriend had two dogs, though, and I learned enough from weekending with her that I don't regret never having a pet.

    If you love having a dog - enjoy! If you want to scorn me for not wanting a dog ... tough.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

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    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    One of the benefits of being a man, as opposed to being a chick, is being able to buy and use quality possessions that last as opposed to needing to keep up with fashion trends. Clothing is one category.

  14. #14

    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    I'm just glad I had the dumb luck to be born in a prosperous nation where I can have this debate of materialistic excess.

    I'll be the 1st to admit that I have more crap than I need....I do the periodic cleaning and have been better at getting rid of stuff I don't use regularly. Having said that, people who try and spout minimalism are completely full of shit. In my experience the crowd that panders to that ideal have much more money than average and can buy what they need, when they need it instead of having to buy and hold onto item. This isn't a knock at any posters here I just wanted to point out that there is a degree of stuff that at least for myself makes life easier/more enjoyable.


    Where people get the concept twisted is when stuff rules your life....case in point - Leasing luxury items (cars/toys) + maintaining an image to "prove something" while working yourself to death.
    because even solitude is better than evil company.” - Bartolomeo Scala

  15. #15

    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    This has been going on a lot in my head recently, and I always think of that quote from fight club:
    The things you own end up owning you.
    It is so true. I own a pretty expensive flat in a nice area of Johannesburg (South Africa) and a new car. I love my flat and I love my car. My flat has an amazing view of the city and is really well located. However... the mortgage cost means I have little disposable income left. I can't just go to Thailand on a whim. And sometimes, that is what I want to do. Drop out of the rat race and just... I don't know. Walk on a beach for a bit. Work at a job with no stress and no meaning. My job means nothing to me and it isn't fulfilling. I chase these possessions to better my self esteem, and they help. But it costs a lot of money to keep up.

    Has anyone ever played the video games Diablo 2 or Diablo 3? They work on a system in which, if you play for long enough, you get rewarded with character progression in the form of a level up or new gear. That progression then enables you to get further in the game, but, the game difficulty adjusts to your new power level. So, the game never gets easier. As you get stronger, so you do your enemies. The carrot of getting new, powerful gear is just in front of your face, and you play on a little bit more so that you can find that new weapon, or piece of armor. However, its all meaningless. After getting that new kit, a few minutes later, the enemies will have levelled up to match you. And, if you ever do find yourself in a situation where things are too easy, you will get bored and quit.

    Perhaps it is the same with life? I'm bored because my job doesn't challenge me. I'm chasing these possessions to level up, but what does that mean? Will they make me happy? For how long? It's not that I am unhappy, don't get me wrong. It's just that, occasionally, I see the pointlessness of what I am doing, and that bums me out a little.

    What I really want is actually complete freedom. To be unattached with no responsibilities or cares. My plan for this is to start small businesses that will hopefully one day run themselves. Read the 4 hour work week. If I can get a small business or two that generates enough income for me to survive, I really will quit my job.

    On the topic of clothes, I like good clothes. I bought new work shirts this year because my old ones were far too big. The new ones fit 1000% better. I feel much better wearing them to work. There aren't really any ladies for me to impress at the office, but I feel good going to work knowing that I am looking good. I don't know why.

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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Covenant View Post
    Yes but that doesn't apply to wool. The 110, 120 or 130 rating tells you how much it has been spun. The higher the rating, the lighter and more durable it is. A "wool blend" suit contains a mix of polyester and wool. That means you can't iron the trousers as easily and it goes shiny much faster. The things I have described have nothing to do with art or style, they are all about function, and quality. Things that are always worth paying for.

    Do you reasonably expect to lose your possesions through criminal damage or negligence? Im 30, and it hasn't happened to me yet. And theres also insurance you know.
    Personally buying lower-end materials for me have served their purpose. I currently own a jumper which is quite cheap yet has lasted me a long time without the defects of not buying a more expensive jumper. Unless you plan on mud-wrestling in your clothes they do serve their purpose for casual day to day purposes. It would be like buying a sports car which can go super fast but you only plan on driving them on slow country roads. Why have speed if you do not plan on using it ? Do you plan on using these clothes for the rest of your life or needing the high quality and function for activities which require it ? On some base level we have to agree that sometimes we purchase higher-end clothing because it makes us feel more important and better. It is why you expect pictures when purchasing clothing - if we were just all about the durability and wool quality - Would we not just settle for a description ?

    There may be insurance but there is no insurance to say that it will not happen to you. Do you personally insure each and every one of your expensive items?

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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    The more intangible and freely available information has become, the more blatant and useless status possessions have become to show that knowledge.

  18. #18
    Moderator Thomas Covenant's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Personally buying lower-end materials for me have served their purpose. I currently own a jumper which is quite cheap yet has lasted me a long time without the defects of not buying a more expensive jumper. Unless you plan on mud-wrestling in your clothes they do serve their purpose for casual day to day purposes. It would be like buying a sports car which can go super fast but you only plan on driving them on slow country roads. Why have speed if you do not plan on using it ? Do you plan on using these clothes for the rest of your life or needing the high quality and function for activities which require it ? On some base level we have to agree that sometimes we purchase higher-end clothing because it makes us feel more important and better. It is why you expect pictures when purchasing clothing - if we were just all about the durability and wool quality - Would we not just settle for a description ?
    Yeah I agree with that. I get all my casual clothes from T K Maxx because I've found they are the best compromise between price and quality. I also only buy new stuff in sales.

    Suits are a bit different, because you need to make a reasonable impression just in case someone discounts your worth based on your appearance (you never know!).
    There may be insurance but there is no insurance to say that it will not happen to you. Do you personally insure each and every one of your expensive items?
    No. Usually there's no point in insuring something you can easily replace. General contents cover takes care of most of it anyway.
    I work in financial planning. I am interested in metal (all kinds), miniature painting and PC gaming. I live in Scotland.

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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    Years ago, I learned to make do with a lot less income. I spent much of the 1980s either working at a lousy job or looking for another one. I had to make each dollar do as much as someone else could do with $5, particularly while I was on the dole.

    Nowadays, I'm in a similar situation. I'm semi-retired and living off my investments, but I'm far from rolling in wealth. There is no question about spending money on essentials: I have to eat and I need a place to live. Luxury items, however, are discretionary and I often ask myself whether spending money on a certain item is really necessary.

    On the other hand, there's another benefit. I live in an apartment complex and people often abandon things when they move out. I got a lot of second-hand computer equipment that way, much of it in good condition. Among them were some computers which I got running again and I'm often using one of them.

    Also, I salvaged a number of vacuum cleaners that some tenants left. All I needed to do was to take them apart, clean them, and put them back together. I've been hoovering my carpet with them ever since and, if they die on me, the only money I lost was for some spare parts I bought for one of them.

    I also found a number of floor lamps, most of which no longer worked. I took them apart and converted them into antenna masts which I can use for my amateur radio station. I just added some PVC pipe fittings on which I can attach the antenna arms.

    All that one needs is a bit of imagination and someone else's junk can be turned into something useful.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Malinois's Avatar
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    Re: Material possessions and their worth

    @ Free And Clear:

    I'm a minimalist

    Sometimes to an extreme. After learning that lesson first hand, that a few here have been repeating, "More is less", I've been rolling with it...

    My current income is pretty low, maybe $1200 -$1600 a month. HOWEVER, I'm able to save money, eat out almost every day, and I have a Jeep, a car, a motorcycle, a pretty bad-ass dog, and I just got a fishing boat for my Dad...

    Not, trying to qualify myself as anyone here with my possesions. All of them are just liquid assets, besides Bubba...

    My studio apartment is very roomy. I'm a big dude and can't stand feeling crowded...So, I have one folding lawn chair in the living room next to Bubba's futon, which is next to his rug. Oh, and a garbage can next to the door...Pretty simple...Bedroom (which you have to walk through to get to the bathroom and kitchen) has a bed and another high quality folding lawn chair...Clean clothes in baskets or hanging up, dirty one's in a pile behind the door...Also, Bubba's TV is hooked up to my PS3 in front of that chair...

    No one bitches because no one is ever invited in. If they were, no doubt I would be obligated to take their old used up mismatched furniture because they would think I'm poor...

    But, my pile of cash is high enough that I could liquidate my petty vehicular assets, put Bubba into a 3 month mandated quarentine and buy small boat like BeijaFlor's on a dock somewhere in Hawaii...

    I'm always ready to pack it up and go...And, since there's no furniture, I can pretty much go at a moment's notice...yet, I'm comfortable enough as it is...

    Sure, I could buy some nice furniture, Bubba a bigger TV, and go get a 2015 Corvette car payment but, why? I don't plan on living here for the rest of my life and I sure as hell don't want to be owned by stuff or stuff payments...That stuff also attracts money grubbing bitches...

    When I discovered this way of life back in 2006, I haven't had any desire to keep up with no Jonses since...

    My clothes tell a different story...I'm sure they tell people that I have money, and that is intentional...Otherwise, no one would associate with me or employ me...I get sterotyped quite, I have fun with it...No one would think my apartment is as humble as it is...And, by dressing better than half of this town's population, it gives me just enough of an edge to blend in as someone with higher social standing as most of the blue-collars...Whereas I can go to a store and not be talked down, visit my family and be treated with respect, or even walking Bubba at one of his favorite park trails and not standing out as a suspect for something...Dressing well is something I like to spend my money on...It's worth every penny too since I buy durable clothes that even though they might cost a little more, they are comfortable, look good, and last...No trendy shit here either...

    If I bought that Corvette I wouldn't have to change my wordrobe...Same if I bought a Super Duty dually diesel...I don't want attention and I don't even like it...Women I meet are confused when they see my work-car after meeting me (Think 2004 Dodge Neon)...It's funny to me...Too many people judge not only others but, themselves by what the drive...

    My brother's naggy fat-ass wife thinks her shit don't stink because she has a brand new car...I laughed in her face when she called mine a piece of shit...She can't even afford half of the stuff I waste money on...All while her new purchase is depreciating, and she's making payments, mine have all been paid for with cash many moons ago...

    Her panties will surely twist into a knot when she sees where I'm at in two years...I'm just laying low for the time being...Watching options open up and very aware of that trap called "woman" out to ruin my life...


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