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  1. #1

    I don't wanna be a gentleman

    I had to start a new thread because I couldn't find anything on exactly what I wanted to talk about. That first sentence was a bit of a waste of space on so is this one so onto the matter at hand.

    I went looking for websites for men (other than forums such as this forum which is great) and it was quite notable how many were dedicated to style (as in suits and suchlike). I have no objection to suits if the men actually want to wear them, but these websites portrayed men in a very narrow range of what I think is reality. Most men only wear suits if they have to. The sites portray men as almost universally preoccupied with suits and related paraphernalia. I noticed to how the style websites almost without fail referred to "gentleman", to the extent that the quintessential perfect male (a gentleman) is besuited. This is in a similar vein to the quitessential prisoner being in a prison uniform.

    I personally subscribe to civilised conduct, law and order and all things that could be called "good manners", but even there I get a little uncomfortable because I am not quite clear on who decides what "good manners" are and what a "gentleman" is? What if wanted to go live rough in the mountain, not have access to the finer things of life for extended periods and generally just be a mountain man or a river man or (you know). I am sure I could do the good manners part and so presumably that would make me a gentleman? Do I need a suit?

    There are of course a lot of websites that are dedicated to living rough. I'm thinking prepper sites etc. It is just they are not associated in the general internet with the higher qualities of men or, gentlemen. Why not? Remember the day when the colonist pioneer went out and carved out fame and fortune. I guess even then, they were "new money" (nouveau riche) which wasn't quite as acceptable as the "old money".

    Truth be told, I live a chameleonesque existence. I wear relatively smart clothes to work (not suits thank heavens) and on the weekend I mostly look scruffy because I spend a lot of time doing outdoor stuff. I could wear the tight-fitting sports gear but it doesn't work with the gut which hangs out prodigiously despite my efforts to tame it, and why I can't wear the suit that has been hanging in the cupboard for near 14 years). Anyway, why not let it all hang out?

    I do enough to be viewed as 'respectable' at work (a gentleman maybe) but I am more and more convinced these days that MGTOW really does require suits to be optional to the concept of a "gentleman". While it might work for others, and good luck to them, I don't wanna be a gentleman.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    I don't wanna be a gentleman.
    You don't have to be anything you don't want to be.
    I personally really dislike the idea of the 'gentleman' and the 'lady'.

    It is a very European idea which other cultures just don't have (Far East for e.g).
    MGTOW is first and foremost a mainframe, a mentality. It is a liberating mentality which tells you to shed all social and cultural responsibilities as a 'man' to the society you belong to; because it is destructive to your well - being.

    As a MGTOW, you should think about what is convenient and expedient for you; not what is 'good mannered' or 'gentlemanly'.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Then become a shitlord if you must. Be what you want to be as that the beauty of MGTOW.

    Ghosting has many different strategies like blending in (eg suits) or even dressing down to look like a pauper. You can dress to manipulate how people perceive you but I most often prefer to dress for my comfort. This is especially true on my days off that I am doing work around my home.
    Last edited by Azure Nomad; November 26, 2018 at 1:37 AM.

  4. #4

    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Interesting that in the East and elsewhere the concepts of gentleman and lady do not prevail but then I am sure there will be other social concepts with associated benefits and drawbacks. I think in my case I want to participate in society from the social fringe. I don't mean belonging to fringe social groups who do a lot of socializing, I mean on the geographic fringe. I think I am far more useful to society there than I am in the thick of things. As you say, do what suits you.

  5. #5

    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    Then become a shitlord if you must. Be want you want to be as that the beauty of MGTOW.

    Ghosting has many different strategies like blending in (eg suits) or even dressing down to look like a pauper. You can dress to manipulate how people perceive you but I most often prefer to dress for my comfort. This is especially true on my days off that I am doing work around my home.
    The matter of the suits is a more visually obvious aspect of the 'gentleman' idea. I agree about them being useful at times. The thing I'm driving at is the social norms and expectations of the 'gentleman' not the suits (or any other component of gentlemanliness). It is interesting too how discussions on abstract social constructs can take many courses; in this case, suits are coming through strongly but it could just as well have been the wearing of watches or beards.

    I reckon I am naturally a shitlord although again, what I think that means and what that means to anyone else is not necessarily the same. If I describe myself as either a gentleman or a shitlord I have great difficulty because these things mean different things to different people. Lets say I am a civilised, well mannered, caring person who just wants to live in a cave in the forest by a river and a lake and the ocean.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Just remember that those websites are trying to sell an image and a lifestyle. I think you picked up on this when you said, "The sites portray men as almost universally preoccupied with suits and related paraphernalia." The attempt here possibly being to make you feel you are lacking a trait that you should be possessing. Some guys might be drawn to this as dust to a dustbuster and will imagine wanting this image for themselves so they will transact with the website to try to transfer that image to themselves. It might just work for them, and that's fine. You, however, may be sensing the hypnotist's pendulum being swung in front of your eyes.

    I sense that thing going on whenever I see online ads or TV ads for joining shaving clubs. Where you get the free razor kit and then buy their razors. Or you see pictures of muscled men lathering their face with the brush and bottle method. This seems to be an invitation to join the world of men and the things that make us men. The things that make us common to each other such as shaving. Or something similar; I can't quite find the words for it.

    Phooey to that. I've been shaving for decades with my cheap plastic disposable razors and getting my cans of gel on sale. I'm in my bathroom alone, shaving. I don't need no steenking imagery. Or no periodical razor subscription service.

    You can place yourself anywhere you like along the continuum of nicety and gentlemanliness in spite of these efforts that you see to get you to open your wallet and subscribe to a "look", a formula.
    Last edited by Unboxxed; November 25, 2018 at 7:50 AM.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Eiji's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    You don't have to be anything you don't want to be.
    I personally really dislike the idea of the 'gentleman' and the 'lady'.

    It is a very European idea which other cultures just don't have (Far East for e.g).
    just like the so-called "Peter Pan Syndrome".... it's got "doublethink" all over it... women trying to shame men into going back to the patriarchy they hate so much... well, make up your minds ladies... its the 21st Century...
    "I live in freedom, under my own flag." - Captain Harlock

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke

    "Who's the more foolish? The Fool? Or the Fool who follows him?" - Obi-wan "Ben" Kenobi

    "In servitutem redigi non recuso" - Latin (translates to "I refuse to be dominated.")

  8. #8
    Member SteelEye's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    I'd really enjoy getting together with all of you for a nice bourbon. Whoa! Some of us here don't drink. Some of us will show up in suits, some in sweats, some in "business casual". It's all alright. That's what's alright. We're all different, and we have this thing in common, namely, there is really nothing that defines a 'real man' except what we want it to be, which includes not pandering to the feminist bullshit kowtowing, & believing in ourselves as responsible, compassionate males. I wear suits when I have to. I actually like that, when I have to wear a suit. As a former punker, I also wear leather and ripped up jeans, & lots & lots of black t shirts, ala, joey ramone, joe strummer, & johnny rotten. I love the fact that women that see me at any given time, never know who I am, or what I do, & they always seem to be sizing me up. I revel in it.
    Boys, Men, countrymen, love the fact that you can drink vodka at 3:30 in the afternoon, if you want to, (provided you're out of work already.)
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Eiji's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    tis a puzzlement.....
    women demand that men be "gentlemen" to them.... but that involves going back to the old system (read "patriarchy") that they hated about us in the first place...
    what give here???
    "I live in freedom, under my own flag." - Captain Harlock

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke

    "Who's the more foolish? The Fool? Or the Fool who follows him?" - Obi-wan "Ben" Kenobi

    "In servitutem redigi non recuso" - Latin (translates to "I refuse to be dominated.")

  10. #10
    Member SteelEye's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiji View Post
    tis a puzzlement.....
    women demand that men be "gentlemen" to them.... but that involves going back to the old system (read "patriarchy") that they hated about us in the first place...
    what give here???
    It can't be said any better than that, Eiji. Some "gentlemen" of past days were some of the biggest scumbags.
    (Disclaimer: This may not have been your original meaning, But something that I just added)
    Last edited by SteelEye; December 3, 2018 at 5:32 PM. Reason: added a thought

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    Senior Member Knarley Bob's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    I have worn steel toe boots, and denim most of my life. I ride an old Harley, and drive a JEEP.
    Boots, jeans and a .45 on my hip. My hat has been slept in, on, toted water and fanned campfires.
    WHAT THE FUCK IS A SUIT?
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Puggsy's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Its better to be inconspicuous. Wearing neutral clothes, having a plain haircut, blending in with the crowd.

    This is where James Bond annoys me. How do you blend in looking all suave and sophisticated? In real life, plain clothes police officers and even spies blend in to the background, they essentially become the every day person. They rarely become some tux-dickie-bow wearing pimp master flex who drives an Aston Martin and dicks women before they can say 'I've been ghosted'.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Aintdealingwithyoshit's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Quote Originally Posted by Knarley Bob View Post
    I have worn steel toe boots, and denim most of my life. I ride an old Harley, and drive a JEEP.
    Boots, jeans and a .45 on my hip. My hat has been slept in, on, toted water and fanned campfires.
    WHAT THE FUCK IS A SUIT?
    Basic working class equipment. Pragmatism over being a flamboyant niminy-piminy office sitter.
    That said, in some places it's simply required etiquette. The suits themselves might prefer more casual clothing as these things tend to get rather hot.
    Solution for the rapefugee crisis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTYkcnJdDio
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  14. #14
    Senior Member PistolPete's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    MGTOW is all about personal choices and lifestyle; there is no one size fits all. Do whatever you think is best that advances YOUR interests.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Eiji's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Quote Originally Posted by Knarley Bob View Post
    WHAT THE FUCK IS A SUIT?
    a set of clothes that cost way too much for what they do....... besides, I never liked them anyway... I look "stiff" or "rigid" in them. (and I never liked neckties... if an assailant gets hold of that.... you may as well be in a hangman's noose.)
    Last edited by Eiji; December 5, 2018 at 10:33 PM.
    "I live in freedom, under my own flag." - Captain Harlock

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke

    "Who's the more foolish? The Fool? Or the Fool who follows him?" - Obi-wan "Ben" Kenobi

    "In servitutem redigi non recuso" - Latin (translates to "I refuse to be dominated.")

  16. #16
    Senior Member PistolPete's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Here is an anecdote you guys will appreciate. When I was an attorney for the VA I always wore a suit and tie to work. When I was transferred to a position in Florida my boss (a feminist bitch) instructed me to cease wearing a tie/suit. I thought about this for a moment and asked her precisely why my attire was inappropriate since I was after all a lawyer and I had worked at many different VAs and everywhere I went the suit tie combo was not only appropriate it was expected.

    Her answer is classic. The senior executive of the hospital, a friend of hers and another feminist, felt that only employees of a certain "rank" whatever the hell that meant should be wearing suits/ties and I was not of sufficient "rank" to wear these things and as a result it might confuse employees--they may believe I was "higher" in "rank" than I was...In other words wearing a suit and tie made me "uppity". Keeping in mind of course I was a GS 12, and met regularly with senior executive staff---yet somehow my suit/tie threatened them. I should point out there is NO "rank" among federal employees UNLESS you are a federal employee working at a military facility.

    Obviously I left the VA and those two stupid cunts in the rear view mirror and moved on to the Department of Defense, specifically the Navy. Only there did I encounter the whole GS vs Rank thing. (And yes I wore a suit and tie again every day) Anyway I was asked to lunch one day by a base commander and the XO and a couple of other officers. We were to meet at the base officers club. Now having been a buck private in the army many many years ago I suggested to the XO I probably can't get into the club since I'm not an officer. He asked what my GS rating was (which was 12) and explained to me that such a grade was equivalent (and he actually had a written chart to back this up) to a Lt. Commander in the Navy. I blurted out "NO SHIT!" REALLY? You're shitting me"

    BTW the lunch was fantastic--those guys live right!

    Anyway the point was: the feminist britches felt threatened by my attire yet men expected this attire. Sorry to be a little off topic.

  17. #17
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    I'd like to know why we keep having this pressure or expectation to behave like gentleman when women rebel against anything lady like. Not to mention that chivalry itself is about how wealthy men treated other wealthy men in combat.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Shrug the Script's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Then don't be a gentleman. But don't dress like the trash people are today.
    "Ghosting implies invisibility and non-interference with society at large." Free and Clear




  19. #19
    Senior Member Joetech's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    This reminds me of my dad. He worked at the steel plant all his life and only wore suits to church and family holiday functions and weddings and such. After he retired he went out and bought himself a new suit...the last suit he would ever need...he called it his burying suit. And, yes, we buried him in it. I think his funeral was the only time he wore it.
    "Don't follow in my footsteps. I stepped in something."

  20. #20
    Senior Member Eiji's Avatar
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    Re: I don't wanna be a gentleman

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelEye View Post
    It can't be said any better than that, Eiji. Some "gentlemen" of past days were some of the biggest scumbags.
    (Disclaimer: This may not have been your original meaning, But something that I just added)
    well.. I can sum up being a "gentleman" in just one word these days.... "obsolete"
    "I live in freedom, under my own flag." - Captain Harlock

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke

    "Who's the more foolish? The Fool? Or the Fool who follows him?" - Obi-wan "Ben" Kenobi

    "In servitutem redigi non recuso" - Latin (translates to "I refuse to be dominated.")


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